Cyclone Strike low damage, high cost

Monk
75 Spirit cost for 150% WD. Consider that Crippling Wave can be runed to output close to the same amount of damage ( to close to the same amount of mobs ). It seems that as a damage or "spender" or "focus" ability, it only becomes viable if we rune it to cost less. Why should I have to rune a skill simply to make it viable. Consider that a runed Lashing Tail Kick does %220 WD to all surrounding enemies for 30 Spirit ... and I just don't understand. Perhaps I simply like the thought of this skill too much and have seen it nerfed about 6 times now ... I dunno. Anyone else feel that this skill is underpowered. Anyone think it's just fine as is?
I think people will change their mind once they see it and can accurately compare it to Crip Wave (CW) and Lash tail Kick (LtK).

The big problem I have with the ability descriptions is their lack of detail.

Cyclone Strike (CS) does say it pulls enemies from 24 yards away (or 34 with Implosion rune skill) before dealing the damage.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VcR!!YaZ

Now we can see CW can be upgraded to hit targets within 17 yards - so that already tells us CS (and probably LtK) only hit targets closer than 17, probably something like 8-10 yards based on other descriptions I have seen.

Let's assume normally the radius is 10 yards (it may only be 8 which makes my point even easier)

πr² = Area

100π = LtK (Vulture Claw Kick)
100π = CW (normal)

289π = CW (Tsunami)
-- 2.89x larger area (compared to LtK and CW-normal)

576π = CS (normal)
-- 5.76x larger area (compared to LtK and CW-normal)

1156π = CS (Implosion)
-- 11.56x larger area (compared to LtK and CW-normal)

I think once we try it, we'll think 2.5x cost will be worth the 5.8-11.6x extra area it hits for damage.
I'd say if you're going for max aoe damage, Cyclone Strike isn't the ability for you. LTK beats it hands down.

CS is great for other things though. Good for a tank type build as the drawing-in effect is the closest thing we have to a taunt and is great for stacking mobs for group aoe. It can be runed to heal (2x larger area than BoH though the amount got mega nerfed recently), which will keep guiding light up pretty much all the time.

So its got several little gimmicky uses that can work for some builds but not great strictly for damage output. Maybe if it was 50 spirit instead of 75 it would be worth a closer look.
If not a spirit cost, it's a cooldown. Cyclone strike is a utility skill--you can rune it to dodge, aoe pull, heal, or just do aoe damage every time you can get 45 spirit together...when you think about it, if you've got even a little bit of passive spirit regen on your gear along with a good spirit gen combo, you can probably fire these off every 4-5 seconds. Not bad, imo. Fits a lot of builds with a need for a jack of all trades skill, although I'd agree the spirit cost seems a bit high.
Thanks for the responses, they showed me a few different ways to look at the skill. I'm still feeling as though the cost might be too high for the functionality of the skill, but i can see where for some builds it has more benefits than just damage.
I think using the rune skill to bring it down to 45 spirit makes it very competitive with any damage dealer the monk has, used with a heavy hitting 2H weapon and Resolve passive and this becomes a powerful spell.

3.33 dmg/spirit for each enemy it pulls in - I think you can get 5 mobs easily for 16 dmg/spirit

LtK (SFK), 2 targets = 480/30 = 16 dmg/spirit for comparison and you are only reducing dmg done by 2 targets instead of 5 (when paired with Resolve).

I could see having builds with both LtK + CS and you would interchange their use based on mob complexion.
I like the skill (at least in beta), and the math doesn't lie, it does great aoe damage.

The problem I foresee though, at least in later difficulties, is that you probably won't want to drawin as many enemies as it will with its range.
I like the skill (at least in beta), and the math doesn't lie, it does great aoe damage.

The problem I foresee though, at least in later difficulties, is that you probably won't want to drawin as many enemies as it will with its range.


Check it:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aYXjVR!adZ!ccbaZa

Breath of Heaven: 15% dmg boost, 225 spirit left
Mantra of Conviction: 48% dmg boost, 200 spirit left
Cyclone Strike: 256% dmg to everything within 24 yards, 155 spirit left
Blinding Flash: 145 spirit left

Fists of Thunder (target something out of range of this AoE cluster): 170% weap dmg, 151 spirit left
FoT (target 1 item back in range of AoE cluster): 170% weap dmg, 157 spirit left
Crippling Wave: 170% weap dmg, 30% slow, 20% attack speed debuff, 20% damage debuff, 163 spirit left
MoC: 138 spirit left
CS: 332% dmg to everything within 24 yards, 93 spirit left
CS: 256% dmg to everything within 24 yards, 48 spirit left
CS: 256% dmg to everything within 24 yards, 3 spirit left

Seems like a good way to burn through 250 spirit :)
256 + 170 + 332 + 256 + 256 = 1270% Weap damage to everything within 24 yards
1 thing I don't know is Thunderclap - did they extend the teleport range or is it still considered only a "short distance"?

I know it used to say:
"Each punch causes a shockwave that hits all enemies within 8 yards of your primary target for 105% weapon damage as Lightning damage. Also enables you to teleport a short distance during the ability's first strike."

Now tooltip says:
"Teleport to the target and releases an electric shockwave with each punch that hits all enemies within 6 yards of your primary target for 35% weapon damage as Lightning."
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bZXjYR!dZV!ccbaca

Ok, here's another take - a build built around Cyclone Strike + Near Death Experience (!) + Exalted Soul.

The goal is to die every 90 seconds for a free 87.5 spirit...at which point you execute this series of moves:

(starting) Spirit [dmg modifier]
87.5 [+15%] BoH
62.5 [+15%] Deadly Reach
68.5 [+15%] Deadly Reach
74.5 [+35.7%] Deadly Reach
80.5 [+76.4%] Blinding Flash
70.5 [+161.1%] MoC
45.5 391.60% Cyclone Strike
0.5 Spirit left

And the templar build to go along with this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/follower#1101
I took out the two heal spells so that I can die when needed :p
That's interesting - A build based on dying. I hadn't thought of it. Are you sure that damage modifiers multiply like that, instead of just add together?

The increased % damage dealt and increased % damage taken by enemies will almost certainly be multiplied together, but I'm not convinced on the damage buffs will stack that way.
That's interesting - A build based on dying. I hadn't thought of it. Are you sure that damage modifiers multiply like that, instead of just add together?

The increased % damage dealt and increased % damage taken by enemies will almost certainly be multiplied together, but I'm not convinced on the damage buffs will stack that way.


I'm not sure, maybe someone with Beta can confirm if its additive or multiplicative, if additive here is how it shakes out:


87.5 [+15%] BoH
62.5 [+15%] Deadly Reach
68.5 [+15%] Deadly Reach
74.5 [+33%] Deadly Reach
80.5 [+63%] Blinding Flash
70.5 [+111%] MoC
45.5 261% Cyclone Strike
0.5 Spirit left
I'm pretty sure that all damage increases are calculated additively. As far as the point Balor mentions regarding damage taken by enemies (MoC for instance), thats up for debate and I doubt we'll know if these effects are multiplicative or additive until release.
I hope they do something about CS as well. It just seems that LTK is our best AOE spirit spender as well as one of our best spirit sink damage spells.

This is all in part due to Blizzard and how they have made the other spirit spenders just not as efficient as LTK.

I have a build that can keep crippling wave up around 280% weapon damage per hit.

Attacking more often and not costing you spirit. So i hope they change CS to something better.

Remember, before there was CS there was the decoy, then they nerfed the decoy to 1 second time bomb, then they changed it to CS.
It's use is for tanking and soloing. For arguments sake lets say Mantra of Retribution (with Retaliation) does the most damage in inferno due to mobs hitting so hard. If that is the case you would need to tank hits and some how be capable of healing the damage.

That is where Cyclone Strike comes in and it's extremely high Spirit cost. If you pick up Transcendence in your passive skills and rune Cyclone Strike with Soothing Breeze (heals you and all allies within 24 yards for 4448) then a single aoe skill with zero cool down will heal you for a total of 12848.

I don't know how high the health pools are in Diablo 3 but I imagine that to be an extremely strong set up for solo farming.
Patch 15 Cyclone Strike:

Cost: 50 Spirit / Pull all enemies within 24 yards towards you, followed by a furious blast of energy that deals 100% weapon damage as Holy.

*Soothing Breeze : Cyclone Strike heals you and all allies within 24 yards for 1240 Life.
*Eye of the Storm : Reduces the Spirit cost of Cyclone Strike to 30 Spirit.
With the patch 15 change, the damage per spirit spent is still the same, however it sitll lets you bring everything to your more often thanks to the lower cost. The benefit of this ability is it lets you suck in monsters around you and more easily apply debuffs such as from crippling wave, or pull them off of friends.
They did change it again in patch 15, it will be interesting to see how it finally performs, as i very much like the idea of this skill.

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