Is *Anyone* Happy About Runes on Rails?

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Runes on rails. Do not want.

Seriously, make me work for them, but when I find them, give me a choice that has meaning. Liked runes better as drops.
Sorry I can't say I completly hate the new system, because that makes something to unlock until we reach level 60 even tho we could just unlock unruned skills up to sixty.. but I can say I prefered the old system, I always thought it was cool to make those rune stones kinda valuable and hoped they would become the new "soj" or charm (i.e. something everyone would want to buy on the AH, be it gold or cash).

What I don't understand is Blizzard removed the old system saying it will cluther inventory too much, and yet there are 14 ranks of gems * 4 types, and from the jewelers recipes, I get that you need 3 gems of same type and same rank to upgrade to another... that makes 168 squares little squares needed.
To me it's no different. Either I wait till level 50 to find the rune I need, or I know for sure I will have it at level 50. Runes as items would be cumbersome, so I see why they switched. It gives leveling after 30 more prizes, plus making the runes as items less cumbersome, you would have to simplify it to the point where they would be no big deal as items...just a hassle.
I approve
Are we overlooking the ability for sockets and gems on weapons and armor? I'm assuming this is still very much part of the game and a great opportunity for further customization of your character.
03/29/2012 06:08 PMPosted by Connatic
To me it's no different. Either I wait till level 50 to find the rune I need, or I know for sure I will have it at level 50. Runes as items would be cumbersome, so I see why they switched. It gives leveling after 30 more prizes, plus making the runes as items less cumbersome, you would have to simplify it to the point where they would be no big deal as items...just a hassle.


Said this so many times already, but under the old system you would have had the runes you needed by the end of act 2 or 3. They were 'coloured' and could be socketed in any skill. For example an alabaster rune could be socketed in Impale for one effect, or in Strafe for another. Later on was about ranks.

While the runes as items system had problems, there are lots of ways around it.

- make runes into a crafting material, to reduce clutter.
- make runes into a 'points' system similar to gold, earned from killing progression bosses.
You can't say that you would have had the "runes needed" easily with the old system by the end of normal for your build because the middle to higher tier runes of the same color to continue with your build wouldn't be as easily found and thus you would be playing essentially gimped with your build aka not that viable due to finding runes.

Please don't respond with "oh but there is the RMAH and gold AH" since literally everyone can say that about any item and it's meaningless. Not everyone is willing to spend real money or dump tons of gold on runes.

Oh you want that legendary really bad? Just go spend $50 and you can have it! Rigghhhttt..
I'm not to happy with the change i would prefer runes being drops seems like they want us to have all these customizations and this takes a little of that away plus the excitement of finding those runes on a drop is gone.

I liked that and it doesn't have to come down to farming in D2 there was the rune quest and you would farm they can easily not have a "rune" quest. This wont ruin the game just takes some things away that I liked in the original just IMHO.
03/27/2012 04:47 PMPosted by Starbird
I mean 'this is the absolute best thing and it's 100% perfect'.


Is this a rhetorical question or something?

Edit: I probably should have noticed that the statement I quoted wasn't a question. Please take note that I was referring to the title of the thread.
I think Diablo 3 will have a more refined "end-game" as far as PvE goes. Most of the long term action will be happening late levels and at Inferno, making this a non-issue. Will certain select runes being unavailable while playing through Normal and Nightmare make this system junk? I think that's an exaggeration. I considered Normal and Nightmare more about experimenting. Hell and Inferno is when you choose "The Build" and roll with it.

I mean if we are arguing for more runes being available before level 30...why can't we argue for more skills being unlocked before level 10? Diablo has a progression system and pacing is apart of the appeal of RPG style gameplay. It's not just about stats and customization, it's also about pacing and progression. Slowly getting more powerful and having time to savor each new tier of power and new abilities.
You can't say that you would have had the "runes needed" easily with the old system by the end of normal for your build because the middle to higher tier runes of the same color to continue with your build wouldn't be as easily found and thus you would be playing essentially gimped with your build aka not that viable due to finding runes.

Please don't respond with "oh but there is the RMAH and gold AH" since literally everyone can say that about any item and it's meaningless. Not everyone is willing to spend real money or dump tons of gold on runes.

Oh you want that legendary really bad? Just go spend $50 and you can have it! Rigghhhttt..


All but the highest level runes would have been very common according to Blizzard and it would have been easy to get them. Plus you could always balance your rune colors out to ensure you kept getting upgrades. And if you didn't you could still try other stuff.

At least you would have had the choice and been able to test them all by the end of Normal.
You can't say that you would have had the "runes needed" easily with the old system by the end of normal for your build because the middle to higher tier runes of the same color to continue with your build wouldn't be as easily found and thus you would be playing essentially gimped with your build aka not that viable due to finding runes.


Almost right, except that if that rune unlocks in the mid to late 50s, what is better? To have a weaker version of it at level 30 or to not have it at all at level 30? I would consider not havign said rune at all far more devasting (current system) than haveing a weaker versionBy this point I've accepted this new system, both haev their own flaws really. But if only for the sake of arguing I must point out this flaw in your logic.

Said it before, but in my opinion what would make thsi system perfect is to simply add a quest reward near or at the end of the last act that allows you to unlock one rune of choice, no matter what the level requirement is.
My understanding was that lvl 1 runes would be SUPER common, with them lying all over normal. Level 2 runes would;ve been uncommon.

UNTIL you reached NM, then lvl 2's would be common and lvl 3 would be rarer.

In Hell, lvl 4 would have been common as dirt and 5's would've been uncommon.

In Inferno, lvl 6 would've been common and 7 would;ve been SUPER rare.

How is this bad? Everyone would've had the runes they wanted. Maybe not the levels they wanted them at, but they would've easily had the runes.

I don't hate the new system, but I do like the OP's suggestions of unlocking runes... even if it's a reward kind of thing like the extra skill point you got in D2 for completing the Den of Evil.

Would 1 rune unlock per difficulty be that big of a deal? By the time you got to Inferno, the last quest reward would end up being useless because we're intended to be 60 by then anyway. This might be true of Hell difficulty as well....

2 or 3 early rune unlocks seems a reasonable compromise, don't you think?
Unfortunately it was more like rank 1 dropped in normal
rank 2 in nm
rank 3 in hell
ranks 4-7 in inferno.

Usually only 1 rank per entire difficulty.
Do not want.
03/27/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Starbird
The level requirements stuck on are 100% arbitrary, which is my main problem with this system.


Starbird, I feel your pain man. I was very sad about the change to the rune system as well. This was the innovative feature I was most excited about. While I still feel like the game is enjoyable, there is a strong sense of the adventure that is certainly lost. Part of what made the first two games my favorite of all time is the mixture of creative freedom with random luck. With the system as it is now... luck is only there in item drops... and the freedom of choice in playstyle is limited to your character level. I believe this is a poor decision for a Diablo sequel that I'm sure even the Blizzard internal teams are fighting about. The leveling system now mirrors WoW... how did they come to that!?

Well, I don't believe the change is arbitrary. Nay, I have this irksome feeling that the change is for reasons they may yet be even worse. I believe the changes are to keep the game forward compatible with the frakin' console crowd. That's right... the xbox did this to us.

What's more of a pain in the !@#$ than inventory management when comparing input from a gamepad to a mouse/keyboard? I can't think of anything.

And if I'm wrong, and it's a balance thing... that's only worse. This isn't an MMO. I don't care about what other players' have been lucky enough to find vs what I have. The loot system doesn't need to be balanced... certainly not if PVP isn't even going to be part of the game at launch. But I digress.

There's a reason for it.... and it's still fun. So we'll still be playing :)
I don't mind runes not being droppable. I just want to pick the runes to unlock when they are allowed to be.

I want the movement speed frenzy effect before all others, yet its last.
1) if you dislike everything about the class you're playing, maybe its time to try a different class. if its one spell you dont like, dont use it.


Preferring to level as a certain build =/= not enjoying the class. This is more a matter of 'it would be more fun to do x' than 'it would be no fun to do y'.

So thats something to work towards, consider how weak some skills are when you first get them- whirlwind springs to mind.

2) still just as unique, theres the same amount of depth, just some added convenience.


Can you explain what you mean by convenience?

A nice clean ui, no huge swathes of junk to manage, you dont need to obsess over some obscure rain dance to unlock the skills that you really need (capture signets from guildwars anyone?)

3) who says you get to play inferno before max level? let alone a huge amount of hell grind to gear up for it?


Grinding end Hell and Inferno to me are pretty much part of a similar segment of the game (endgame).
Right, end game only begins after max level.

4) weird, its like by not finishing the game, they dont see all the content? freaky


Core skills =/= content. Let me give you, as an example, D2 Sorc. Imagine wanting to play an ice sorc, but instead of Blizz unlocking at 24 and Forb at 30, Blizz unlocked at 60 and Forb at 90. That is pretty much the new system.
some builds arnt done until 70's. and comet is a silly skill, you need them to be immobilized so your big, long cast spell can hit them in the first place.

5) or a way to make things bearable for casuals, anyone who has been a noob in a dota like game knows the feeling of absolute terror at seeing yet another new hero they have no clue how to play against. assuming a player is pvping the whole way up, they will be getting mild doses of "ooh, that was new and clever" the whole way up, instead of a brutal blast of "I have no clue whats coming or how to defend against it" to the face.


1) PvP is not going to be balanced anyway and Blizzard is not taking PvP complaints into account for PvE balance.

2) I doubt new players will be any better off against people using other runeskills.

3) Can you level in PvP?

Can you explain this more clearly? I'm not sure exactly what your objection is here.

1) so? this isnt about rock beating paper, this is about gradually opening up more skills as players progress through the content.
2) kinda moot as pvp isnt in, but bracketing by level is kinda the industry standard, unstructured diablo playerbase standard as well. the lvl 9s duel the 9's, the 35's duel the 35's, the high level chars duel eachother etc.
3) doesnt matter whether exp is a reward of pvp, people are going to be sour if they have to wait to max level to be able to pvp.

6) in d2 you couldnt start out swinging frozen orbs and meteors at level 1 either


Yes, but you didn't have to wait until level 90 to use them either :). Everything was unlocked by the end of Normal (LOD) or early Nightmare (vanilla).

everything is unlocked pretty early on too. sure you wont have full access to the baba crit engine for example right off the bat, but its not like you would have the crit gear to support it either so no biggie.

Dont lock yourself into a preconceived notion of what your playstyle is, or that some skills will be no fun. when you get that rusty spoon of a new skill, learn it, find a way to make it work, synergise it etc, you my find the nature of the game changes later on and while everyone else keeps on trying to bash at it with their favorite hammer or try to do a full audit of every skill from the top, you will already know what to do and traipse on ahead.

sirlin, playstyles
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/play-styles.html

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