Wizzard build without signature spell.

Wizard
I have been thinking on a build that don't need to use "signature spells". Here are my reasons.

Reasons to avoid Signature spells:
-Signature spells are weak (or at least, weaker than secondary spells).
-They don't give you Arcane power (as most other primary attacks on other classes) unless you rune them specifically. This runing makes them even weaker. Passive Prodigy needs to be here, but I think that it isn't enough.
-Their use for what they were conceived, was to kill time while your Arcane Power restores, and you can use badass spells.

Reasons to use a slow but strong weapon (results in similar DPS):
-Attack speed is your enemy, it drains your Arcane power faster, but do not help to restore it. That's the reason to use a 2 handed weapon with low attacks per second (low attacks does not mean less dps, but the +fixed damage of your set would be applied less times per second).
-Disentigrate: has a continuous animation, meaning you can "cut" your attack whenever you need, evading the problems of having a low attacks per second.
-Disentigrate + Volatility: Has eventual attacks (when an enemy die) that makes them explode. This is an effect that benefits from a strong but slow weapon (because they won't die faster at the same dps).
-Storm Armor also bases in the same principle of Disentigrate + Volatility (activates when attacked).
-A strong but slow weapon also benefits from spells with cooldown, because they aren't spameable and are based on weapon damage, not on dps.
-A strong but slow weapon also benefits from damage over time spells that can't stack.
-There are alternatives to help you with the low attacks per second and to fix the wait for your Arcane Power to restore.
-Diamon Skin + Prism: 6 second of each 15, the Arcane Power cost of your skills is reduced by 7.
-Storm Armor + Power of Storm: the Arcane Power cost of your skills is reduced by 3.
-Those two skills together reduces to HALF the cost of your cheapest skills.
-Passive Astral Presence: +20 max Arcane Power and 2 Arcane Power/sec regeneration.
-Familiar + Arcanot: +2 Arcane Power/sec regeneration.

You have a slow weapon (but similar dps), that will drain your Arcane Power SLOW, you have your cheapest skills now reduced to 10 Arcane power, and your base Arcane Power regeneration may be 14. I think this is enough to to don't need to rely on signature spells and use something like Disentigrate + Volatility, witch is more effective

This theory is based on:
-Damage of your skills is really based on your weapon damage, and not in your dps.
-Arcane cost of spells is a cost based on cast, not on "uses skill per second".
-The time you lose regenerating Arcane Power with runed signature skills or Pasive Prodigy does not compensate. Of course I couldn't test it, lvl 13 is not enough.
-As long as you will earn "attack speed" by set, you will also earn Arcane Power regeneration. And you will need to have always present Arcane Power regeneration on your sets, even more than a wizzard that uses signatures spell. If you fail here, you will end up waiting for Arcane Power to restore aimless.

Also, all what is said here, it's not expected to be used together, you have limited skills and that would be troublesome. All what I wrote was to share the spirit of the build I want. Here is my proposition:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#icYRXT!ZXV!bbaZZZ

-Disentigration + Volatility: Strong, continuous, AP ecologic and eventually triggered (kills)
-Arcane Orb + Arcane Nova: Huge area, moderate damage
-Frost Nova + Shatter: Awesome, if I could I would have it twice.
-Hydra + Lightning Hydra: This skill have very bad reputation. But it cast about 3 times per second (each head simultaneously and at 1 attack per second or slightly faster). So it's 102% weapon damage per second, until 15 seconds, and VERY AP ecologic with the next 2 skills. Sadly only one at time, but if it keeps it's bad reputation this might change in a future. Their significant number of hits per second would make it interesting in conjunction of the Passive Paralysis.
-Diamond Skin + Prism: AP eco, defensive
-Storm Armor + Power of Storm: AP eco, eventually triggered (on attack received). Great synergy with Paralysis.

Passives:
-Power Hungry: AP eco
-Astral Presence: AP eco
-Paralysis: good synergies with Hydra+Strom Armor. This might change for Temporal Flux, being the two main attacks of Arcane damage.
because 2 handers have very similar attack speeds to 1 handers, and wizards can't dual wield, it doesn't really matter whether it's a 1 or 2 hander as long as the attack speed is slower.

Edit: I just went through the AH and I found that all the 2 handers were only slightly faster than 1 second. The 1 hander I'm using is 1.2 seconds
While it looks good on paper. I think you'll still fall out of arcane power during bosses and strong pack. Even if it may take some time since you have a lot of AP regen and a slow weapon. If you ever fall ooa you'll be vulnerable. Unlike wand you won't even be able to auto attack (which is still a 100% "skill").
I'm a bit afraid of the viability of your build.
However I think you choosed good spells to make it viable.
I may give it a try one day. I added it to my favorite.
cold blood is what you use to avoid signatures. I agree that wizard has enough useful stuff that it would be good to free up a slot unless you want to go dynamo spec.
I think that it could be possible. But the fact that you need to put emphasis on arcane regen instead of damage enhancement is balancing the damage you will deal.

To andy: 2 handers are usually between 1 and 1.2 attacks per second. Wands are almost always between 1.3 and 1.5 attack per second. That may look small, but this make a huge difference of AP.
You may find items / affixes that make it easier to get away from signature spells as you progress up the itemization chain. For instance, you can use items that give you arcane power for each crit, then use a spell with a high attack rate vs. AP consumption, like arcane torrent, to try to trigger it.

But on the other hand, remember you haven't seen all the signature spells, and only a small portion of their rune variants.
04/22/2012 05:45 PMPosted by andy
because 2 handers have very similar attack speeds to 1 handers, and wizards can't dual wield, it doesn't really matter whether it's a 1 or 2 hander as long as the attack speed is slower.


You can get 2 handers as low as .9 attacks per second. ( http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/mace-2h/ )
You can get 1 handers as low as 1.2 attacks per second.

You can further maximize the effects of the slow attack speed by going to 2 handers. If you intend on having absolutely nothing to do when out of AP, I do think it might be best to try to make sure you never actually do (if possible) run out AP.
Sig spells are awesome. I'll be running around just using chain lightning and nothing else a lot of the time if I'm lazy.
signature spells aren't really used to kill everything, the level progression of signature skills is for how fast they can rejuvenate AP. Chain lighting being the fastest since the wizard only has 100 AP to start with and AP regen is based on hitting enemies. Having fast attack speed and an aoe sig spell is more beneficial than having no sig spell and slow attack speed. D3 mechanics being what they are is that it is preferred to have at least one signature spell so as to keep the action ongoing for as long as possible.
In late game with: AP regen on Crit items and + to Max AP items, or as people find themselves having to spend more time kiting I think we will see less use of signature spells.

For example, if I need to be kiting most of the time having faster passive energy regen through Astral Presence and Power hungry are great. And I would only stop kiting to deal damage with spells that use AP.

Conversely, if you are finding yourself able to "stutter step" with the use of signature spells while you kite and your AP is regenerating you will still deal similar damage.
Now that a few hours have passed, I can give another point of view.

At first, I realized that the signatures spells didn't help or helped to few to regenerate Arcane Power. I wanted to fix this Arcane Power regeneration, optimizing it's use.

+Regeneration, -Cost, -attacks per second, +attacks triggered by events. None of these are an impediment to use Signature spells. I was just to focused.

Now I see like the text I wrote, was about optimize the use of Arcane Power, which is very useful in any build. The decision to use or not a Signature spells now is just a matter of personal preferences and not the main point.

At this point, I would like to people focus their opinions on this subject. Do you know others ways to optimize the use of Arcane Power?
04/23/2012 01:25 AMPosted by LukeNukem
signature spells aren't really used to kill everything, the level progression of signature skills is for how fast they can rejuvenate AP. Chain lighting being the fastest since the wizard only has 100 AP to start with and AP regen is based on hitting enemies. Having fast attack speed and an aoe sig spell is more beneficial than having no sig spell and slow attack speed. D3 mechanics being what they are is that it is preferred to have at least one signature spell so as to keep the action ongoing for as long as possible.


?? source? I dont think chain lightning will benefit from prodigy more times than others though i wish it did lol. or did i misunderstand something?

edit: or did you mean ap is indirectly regenerated by hitting more enemies just because it takes longer to complete?
Good stuff in here, i like these ideas, though you might want to keep in mind a few things that are misinformed, there is no arcane per sec regen on gear, and the arcane per hit from passives etc do not proc with multiple enemies per cast, its just once per cast.

At this point, I would like to people focus their opinions on this subject. Do you know others ways to optimize the use of Arcane Power?


I wrote a guide on this very subject. It can be found here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663538#1

It looks at Arcane Power Regeneration and optimal use. Then compares the base to various regeneration skills such as: Prodigy, Astral Presence, EXC. Then all of the numbers are converted into an optimal use damage increase.
04/23/2012 04:44 AMPosted by tattlebag
signature spells aren't really used to kill everything, the level progression of signature skills is for how fast they can rejuvenate AP. Chain lighting being the fastest since the wizard only has 100 AP to start with and AP regen is based on hitting enemies. Having fast attack speed and an aoe sig spell is more beneficial than having no sig spell and slow attack speed. D3 mechanics being what they are is that it is preferred to have at least one signature spell so as to keep the action ongoing for as long as possible.


?? source? I dont think chain lightning will benefit from prodigy more times than others though i wish it did lol. or did i misunderstand something?

edit: or did you mean ap is indirectly regenerated by hitting more enemies just because it takes longer to complete?


I'm using the logic of: since chain lighting hits 6 enemies per cast and if AP regen is based on hitting enemies, then the more enemies that are hit will increase how much AP you regenerate, which means that I can use more costly skills more often
04/24/2012 09:30 AMPosted by LukeNukem


?? source? I dont think chain lightning will benefit from prodigy more times than others though i wish it did lol. or did i misunderstand something?

edit: or did you mean ap is indirectly regenerated by hitting more enemies just because it takes longer to complete?


I'm using the logic of: since chain lighting hits 6 enemies per cast and if AP regen is based on hitting enemies, then the more enemies that are hit will increase how much AP you regenerate, which means that I can use more costly skills more often


I think it's on cast-hit with Prodigy. So you gain 4 AP per cast of signature spells if they deal damage. Of course we can't test it yet, but this is the only way that makes sense that isn't OP.

However, there's a rune for Electrocute that gives you 1 AP per enemy hit. By default, Electrocute hits up to 3 enemies. So if you're hitting 3 enemies with it, and have Prodigy, you should be gaining 7AP every time you cast it.
I think you'll have to play test disintegrate before you can tell if it's useful to be your primary damage spell.

My guess is that, even if disintegrate is good enough, you'll need to rune it with convergence (for a wider beam) or chaos nexus (short ranged aoe damage) in order to deal with larger numbers of mobs, without blowing through your arcane power.

Ray of frost would be a viable alternative, especially with the cold blood rune, even if the tooltip is wrong, and it only reduces the cost by half. I know that in beta, I've been using ray of frost in very short bursts (like a quarter second or less) to kill off the weaker mobs, and it works out great, with barely any loss of arcane power.

Although ray of frost still suffers from the problem of dealing with larger numbers of mobs. I know, because I've tried to kill lots of mobs with ray of frost, and it's tough. You either use a lot of arcane power, or you spend a lot of time kiting.
04/24/2012 03:35 PMPosted by Goku
My guess is that, even if disintegrate is good enough, you'll need to rune it with convergence (for a wider beam) or chaos nexus (short ranged aoe damage) in order to deal with larger numbers of mobs, without blowing through your arcane power.


I got to test Disintigrate in an earlier build. I REALLY liked it! It was a fun spell and it's extremely useful. I actually really hate Ray of Frost.
Ray of Frost's problem is that random stuff, including friendly NPCs just plain block it. It's a giant pain to use properly without just wasting AP before realizing it's not actually hitting the target yet.

And yeah, I think Prodigy is on cast, but I'll still probably still take it depending on how much +AP regen or on crit/hit +AP gear we can get. Since I want to use Meteor in builds I'll need something to spam to generate AP.
well... I didn't know if I should post it here, or edit the first message.

If this thread was about optimize the Arcane Power use, I have some "news":

- Awesome web, very useful: http://www.d3inferno.com/affixes/ItemAffixes.html
- The only way to regenerate Arcane Power is in Critical hits. http://www.d3inferno.com/affixes/group_ArcanePowerOnCrit.html
- This stat only exists in: Wands, Daggers, Sources and wizard hats. A maximum of 10.

SO, if one of the main points was to use 2 handed weapons because they're slower, it was because we didn't know that the most effective way was to use a source, a wand or dagger, and a wizard hat. Each of them can grant until +10 AP in Critical hit.

Also,

-The critical hits are important, and we can know which is the max crit chance we can get: http://www.d3inferno.com/affixes/group_CriticalChance.html
-Amulet, Gloves, and Off-hand, 10% each. Rings, Bracers, and Helms, 6% each. Gems 0%. A total of +54% critical chance per set (with an Off-hand).

And last,
-There are stats that reduce the cost of wizard skills or increment the critical chance: http://www.d3inferno.com/mods/Power_Resource_Reduction.html and http://www.d3inferno.com/mods/Power_Crit_Percent_Bonus.html
-All these stats are related to hats OR off-hand (but not both). The only exception is Energy Twister that can be used in any kind of generic weapon and wands.

That's all the new data, now a bit of work. The slowest 2 handed weapon we can have is a 0.90 aps (maces), the slowest wand we can have is a 1.40 aps (with the exception of Apprentices Wand, lvl 1).

Assuming the same dps for a mace (2 handed and slowest weapon) or a wand (AP on crit and let us use sources), we have to face which combination is more effective:
- 54% Crit Chance by equip + 1.40 aps + 30 AP on crit = 22.68 AP per second.
- 44% Crit Chance by equip + 0.90 aps + 10 AP on crit = 3.96 AP per second.

Well, we should add here more information, as the Critical Chance thanks to our skills, the AP regeneration (base 10, and you can earn 2 or 4 more depending on skills), the reduced cost of skills (depending either on set or skills), and the global +X aps (http://www.d3inferno.com/affixes/group_Kings.html) thanks to equipment.

PS: How can I make the links to work? It will be more clean.

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