Macros in Diablo 3. Legal?

General Discussion
So, over on the monk boards there's been some discussion raised by a video posted by a player showing his monk with 2.94 APS. This is in Beta, using 2 daggers, as much %APS gear as he can find and with the attack speed shrine buffing him.

His attacks are so fast, it seems nearly impossible that anyone could realistically using Spirit Generators the way they're intended... i.e. using different stages of them in combination without losing out on some DPS from the delay. This is in gear available at level 13.

It seems realistically possible that we could see APS over 3 easily and maybe over 4 attacks per second end game. This naturally brought up the discussion of using mouse and hotkey macros to time the combos correctly. There has been some vehement discussion on both sides...

I'm here to ask if we can get an answer from a blue telling us if this is legal or not? In StarCraft 2, this kind of thing is illegal. In WoW, this kind of thing is acceptable in some situations.

So, Bashiok(or any other Blue that feels like responding)! Which is it? Please let us know one way or the other, because right now it looks like it's most likely the only way for a monk with high attacks per second to really efficiently pull off combos. It would really help us decide how we're going to play if we if we had an answer!
Thanks for the thread.

I don't plan on using macros, but i would like some clarification on this as well.
Thanks for the thread.

I don't plan on using macros, but i would like some clarification on this as well.


While not necessarily unique to them, I really think the only class that their exclusion would really hurt would be monks because of Spirit Generator combos.

It could probably be helpful to any class, but without this it'll be VERY difficult if not impossible to pull combos at high attacks per second the way they're intended... it'll certainly be nearly impossible to do so regularly.
It may depend on how the Macros are deployed. hardware like the G15 Keyboard(and its related generations of future hardware.) are not against the EULA of most games because they are hardware and do not actually alter the game.

Now by not altering the game I mean that some cheat programs mess around with the code while a G15 just executes a series of commands in its own driver or in the KB itself.

So on a more direct track I am guessing G-Keyboards are not against the EULA just because Warden cannot detect them.
04/26/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Grim
Please link video id like to see


Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egp-tuyKCds

He's also use Fist of Thunder, which makes it even more insane as tests(fairly old now, from like patch 12 or 13) on the bonus APS for it indicate that it has a built in ~50% APS boost... so what you're seeing is in reality even faster than 2.94 APS...
Thanks for the thread.

I don't plan on using macros, but i would like some clarification on this as well.


While not necessarily unique to them, I really think the only class that their exclusion would really hurt would be monks because of Spirit Generator combos.

It could probably be helpful to any class, but without this it'll be VERY difficult if not impossible to pull combos at high attacks per second the way they're intended... it'll certainly be nearly impossible to do so regularly.


Yes if you're taking the monk passive that rewards you for using different types of generators, I don't see how it's possible to consistently press 3-4 different buttons in a second.
04/26/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Tsukasa
Macros should be illegal because they'll unbalance the game ~ and Blizz wouldn't want that so soon after launch. Look at what happened with D2..just saying


How did macros unbalance D2? I'm curious, because I played D2 for almost 5 years regularly and still play it once in a while... I honestly don't know of any macros that people used that were 'game balance' changing.

Botting is NOT macroing.
Maybe you could draw the line as follows:

Any macro that simply converts a user input into another sequence of user inputs is fair.
Example: a user left click is interpreted as a left click, followed a right click, followed by a 2 on the keyboard.

Any macro that is conditional based on feedback from the game is unfair.
Example: when the health meter drops below a certain line, the potion hotkey is activated.
04/26/2012 04:53 PMPosted by Zanathos
Botting is NOT macroing.


True . ..

also that Monk aint even any good =P

DH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGQzDBvEcvk

/nuff said


Yes if you're taking the monk passive that rewards you for using different types of generators, I don't see how it's possible to consistently press 3-4 different buttons in a second.


Not sure if serious. Hitting werwerwerwerwerwerwerwer doesn't take much time, that took me around 2 seconds and I doubt that's even good.


Yes if you're taking the monk passive that rewards you for using different types of generators, I don't see how it's possible to consistently press 3-4 different buttons in a second.


Not sure if serious. Hitting werwerwerwerwerwerwerwer doesn't take much time, that took me around 2 seconds.


Sure. The problem is that each stage of a monk's generators has different advantages attached to their use... and different animation times. It's not pressing a bunch of buttons real fast, it's pressing a bunch of buttons real fast, in a specific order, with specific timing.

If you press them too fast or too slow you either mess up the combo order(if too fast due to the key stroke not registering) or lose out on the effect of all that insane APS you spent a bunch of time gathering on gear(if too slow).

A macro seems the only way to do this effectively at those speeds.

But who knows, maybe your a super awesome keyboard pressing, mouse clicking ultra genius? I know I don't think I can do it, is all I'm saying.
So, over on the monk boards there's been some discussion raised by a video posted by a player showing his monk with 2.94 APS. This is in Beta, using 2 daggers, as much %APS gear as he can find and with the attack speed shrine buffing him.

His attacks are so fast, it seems nearly impossible that anyone could realistically using Spirit Generators the way they're intended... i.e. using different stages of them in combination without losing out on some DPS from the delay. This is in gear available at level 13.

It seems realistically possible that we could see APS over 3 easily and maybe over 4 attacks per second end game. This naturally brought up the discussion of using mouse and hotkey macros to time the combos correctly. There has been some vehement discussion on both sides...

I'm here to ask if we can get an answer from a blue telling us if this is legal or not? In StarCraft 2, this kind of thing is illegal. In WoW, this kind of thing is acceptable in some situations.

So, Bashiok(or any other Blue that feels like responding)! Which is it? Please let us know one way or the other, because right now it looks like it's most likely the only way for a monk with high attacks per second to really efficiently pull off combos. It would really help us decide how we're going to play if we if we had an answer!


VERY interesting post, thank you for this.

Personally I am not sure here. My main question is - if you make macros 'illegal' then how the hell do you enforce it?

There are several top end keyboards and mouses that come with macro software or even these days onboard memory that allows them to be run from hardware.

How can you make a feature of these devices against the rules? How can you detect misuse without banning the wrong people?

I remember the nasty situation back in WoW where a bunch of people with a specific high level logitech keyboard got a permaban...since according to blizzard the software for the keyboard was an "automation program". I can't remember what happened after this.


Yes if you're taking the monk passive that rewards you for using different types of generators, I don't see how it's possible to consistently press 3-4 different buttons in a second.


Not sure if serious. Hitting werwerwerwerwerwerwerwer doesn't take much time, that took me around 2 seconds and I doubt that's even good.


So it took you double the time it should, (2 seconds, instead of 1 second), hence you'd be cutting your dps in half vs. a macro. Do you understand what's going on here?

The monk in the video has an attack speed of nearly three attacks per second, at just level 13 or less. The OP is speculating that later in the game we may see speeds of 4+ attacks per second. If you're going to tell me you can consistently press 4 different buttons in sequence in 1 second, cool--you must be great. There are a ton of people though who are just going to opt for a macro. I'm not necessarily one of those people, but I still would like some clarification on the issue of macro legality in D3.

VERY interesting post, thank you for this.

Personally I am not sure here. My main question is - if you make macros 'illegal' then how the hell do you enforce it?

There are several top end keyboards and mouses that come with macro software or even these days onboard memory that allows them to be run from hardware.

How can you make a feature of these devices against the rules? How can you detect misuse without banning the wrong people?

I remember the nasty situation back in WoW where a bunch of people with a specific high level logitech keyboard got a permaban...since according to blizzard the software for the keyboard was an "automation program". I can't remember what happened after this.


I love but to serve, Obi Wan Starbird Sifu San! ;P

The case of the bans for using the keyboard was mentioned in the threads... however, back in WotLK it was common for raiding DK's(and any others with a clue - also several classes have had similar abilities to this and done the same with it) to macro their Rune Strike to every single one of their hotkeys since it was off of the global CD and a major source of both threat and damage... so it's really hard to tell which way to go with this without some input from a DEV.


Not sure if serious. Hitting werwerwerwerwerwerwerwer doesn't take much time, that took me around 2 seconds.


Sure. The problem is that each stage of a monk's generators has different advantages attached to their use... and different animation times. It's not pressing a bunch of buttons real fast, it's pressing a bunch of buttons real fast, in a specific order, with specific timing.

If you press them too fast or too slow you either mess up the combo order(if too fast due to the key stroke not registering) or lose out on the effect of all that insane APS you spent a bunch of time gathering on gear(if too slow).

A macro seems the only way to do this effectively at those speeds.

But who knows, maybe your a super awesome keyboard pressing, mouse clicking ultra genius? I know I don't think I can do it, is all I'm saying.


Have you played street fighter at all? Once you get the timing down combos and juggles are just a rhythm thing(and positioning). Though I do have to say it's not exactly the easiest thing to learn. But it does just take practice.

So it took you double the time it should, (2 seconds, instead of 1 second), hence you'd be cutting your dps in half vs. a macro. Do you understand what's going on here?


Did you count the number of "attacks" I hit.I was significantly faster than the persons attack speed in the video. Roughly 4x faster. The difference you should have pointed out like the other person I quoted is that the timing and situation calls for a different order of inputs and that will make it more difficult.

edit: I just wanted to say I'm playing devil's advocate and will not be playing a monk. I will however be playing a demon hunter and I'm getting quite good at switching from 2 hizzys to a 2 hander for spenders/generators. In fact that's all the beta is to me now. Practice for getting use to that.
Blizzard can't stop macro's, they have them built into keyboards and mice now so that there is literally no way to differentiate between a player clicking very fast and a macro.

Get used to it.

Have you played street fighter at all? Once you get the timing down combos and juggles are just a rhythm thing. Though I do have to say it's not exactly the easiest thing to learn. But it does just take practice


Yes, I have. As well as Mortal Combat, Tekken and a few others. I'm generally very bad at them because I never was interested enough in them to practice often enough to get good at them. That being said, these games are MUCH simpler games. You only have one(unless it's a tag team type game, which honestly doesn't change what you do as a player much from what I've seen - like I said not a huge fan of these types of games) opponent coming at you from one direction to deal with... and generally their separate 'moves' only happen what? Once a second?

I understand what you're getting at, I just don't think it's 100% relevant.

The combos in fighting games also don't require you to do 4 or 5 keyboard presses per combo per second for hours on end... like I said there are a lot of things that make macros very attractive.

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