Why do we kill Zoltun Kulle?

Lore and Story
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We basically needed him to get the stone. Adria planted the seed that he shouldn't be trusted and this set the precedence to kill him when he seemed like he was going to betray us (when he noticed that Adria, who was evil, mind you, had been putting the evil souls in the stone and seemed to be freaked out by this).

Basically we wuz duped by Adria the whole time. If Zultan had figured out what was happening quicker, we could have just figured out Adria's bull!@#$ right then and there.
Who said he's going to stay dead? Far as I can see we just shattered his physical form again. It's probably going to come back together. Like the lore said, he can't be killed


Well, if I'm right, his spirit is still in there with the 7 Prime Evils. I dunno what that must be like, but if he ever comes back out, he is gonna be pretty screwed up.
He wasn't evil. In this context, he was fighting for humanity. If you listen to his ramblings and pay attention to the lore, demons and angels (BOTH OF THEM) were creating a craptastic world for humans and all his work was for humanity to fight back (hence, why the soul stone even exists and why he created it).

When you first meet him, he was always on your side. Adria (the actual bad person) and Tyrael (an ex-Angel though he's actually a good guy too) both planted (as someone mentioned) seeds of mistrust that made you think he couldn't be trusted. When you read his journals, it shows that he had good intentions for humanity.

He knew that the player was being used and will be betrayed as he hinted that "the witch" and the others (Adria and Leah) were not to be trusted but the player refuses or calls him crazy. He says something along the lines of "You don't really think Belial and Azmodan had the brains to think of all this do you?". When you are fetching his body parts, he tells you about all the !@#$ Angels did to humanity and how the Eternal Struggle %^-*s up humans (all of which were true and were admitted by the angels in Act IV). When you find his last body part, he tries to convince you to join him (you refuse).

When you finally revive him, if you actually listen and watch the cutscene, he wasn't going to go back on his end of the deal; he really was going to hand over the soul stone. However, when you get into the chamber, Kulle finds something wrong. He finds the souls of the Lords of Hell trapped inside when it shouldn't, hence he felt betrayed. We, the player, don't know anything so we fight him out of defense. We later find out why he attacked: in the end of Act III, it was Adria who planted them there for Diablo's revival. He attacks because he wanted to stop Adria's plans.

So in the end, Kulle was actually telling the truth and the best case scenario to avoid all the !@#$ that happens in Act III and IV would have been to actually side with him. However, just like a Disney TV movie, you end up with victory out of the worst possible scenario ever and beat Super Diablo anyway and save the world. To Kulle's credit, without him, there would have been no way to defeat the Lords of Hell.

The only bad part of Kulle was that he was a power-hungry crazed extremist. He DID want to rule the world and stuff...
I like the message Blizzard is sending us with how to deal with people.

When making a deal with someone and complications arise, rather than talking about it like a sane person, simply murder them.

You might want to be very careful around the office. Someone on the storyboard is probably an insane homicidal lunatic.
for some reason i see him coming back.. there was no melodrama in his death
05/20/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Pageturner
To be fair, he did throw the first blow.
it happend with talking tough and then he basically jumped at us all gangsta like, trying to intimidate then i just OMGWTFBBQ his face before he could throw the first punch.
Kulle story bro.
He promised us for the Black soul stone but when he found that his black soul stone filled with 5 lords of hell he denied to give the stone to us.

And the fight begin.

in game story telling is very bad.
He promised us for the Black soul stone but when he found that his black soul stone filled with 5 lords of hell he denied to give the stone to us.

And the fight begin.

in game story telling is very bad.


It's very clear what happened, but it's questionable storytelling as to HOW that happened. Why were the other lords of hell trapped in this soulstone? Did that happen after we killed them and smashed the soulstones on the Hellforge in D2? Nobody ever mentioned that this would happen. It was always assumed that their spirits were destroyed after destroying the stones, but apparently not? Why not? What happened in the last 20 years? Why do we have to actively attempt to put the souls of Belial and Azmodan into the Black Soulstone but it apparently absorbed the souls of Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, Diablo and Baal all the way from the Hellforge?

And Kulle's portrayed to be actively concerned about what will happen if we take soulstone with those evils inside. He's the only intelligent one in the story who realizes that something is fishy about Adria and Leah and our entire mission. He gives no indication that he wants to use their powers, he only gives the impression that he wants to restore the Nephalem to their place of power. Personally, I think he was one of the most interesting characters in the story because his motives and actions actually made sense and were not stupid.
Adria has been spending her 20 years gathering back the souls of the dead Lords of Hell. How she did it when two of them were explicitly destroyed in the Hellforge boggled me, though.

When Kulle found out that the five entered the soulstone upon its completion (Which was definitely not part of his plan), of course he would not hand over the soulstone. But thanks to him being viewed as a power-mad genius, the hero just have to kill him again.
Why we Killed Him: Zoltun Kulle realized, when the souls of 5 Prime Evils entered his completed Black Soulstone, that something was deeply amiss. He felt betrayed, and he then turned to we, the heroes, and asked us to join him, to abandon the Eternal Conflict and instead fight for Sanctuary's predominance; with himself as the leader, naturally.

How we Killed Him: We are Nephalem. Read the Sin War Trilogy. Nephalem didn't just kill people, they -unmade- them at times. No doubt when we killed Zoltun Kulle, we -unmade- him. He himself wasn't a Nephalem, just a powerful Mage. He didn't have time enough for his body to adapt to the change in the Worldstone to become a Nephalem, thus he needed us, the actual Nephalem.

What does this mean: Two options become viable. The first is that Zoltun Kulle is now dead, and forever will be. His body wasn't just killed, but the magic holding it together and protecting it very well may have been unraveled by our Nephalem powers. That, or we can expect to see him down the road.

While this is all very interesting, the how is slightly impossible. Sure, he might not have the powers of a Nephalem (though he seems to refer to himself as a nephalem), he's also got the Black Soulstone with 5 Lords of Hell in it. No way he could...oh...I don't know....siphon some power from them? Anyway, I think he'll come back, just like Adria. Would be nice if Leah came back, feel like she got the worst end of the whole story. That whole family had serious issues though. (King Leoric went insane from Diablo, his son became Diablo's prison, Leah is possibly partially Leoric's granddaughter but is definitely Diablo's daughter, and Adria kills her kid for power. I think Cain is the only guy in the whole family you could live with and not be scared for your life...maybe even your soul. And he's possibly not even related. He's the "uncle", but I haven't heard who he's the brother of....)

05/26/2012 02:40 PMPosted by JadeRaven
Kulle story bro.

Cain see what you did there. (Eirena see what you see there?)
No. He sees that the souls of the lords of hell are in the soulstone, which is out of the ordinary. Then he tells you to abandon your quest and your allies are using you. He knows and is telling you that Adria is going to betray you, but because: I BE DA GOOD GUY! U R THA BAD GUY! you kill him.
Possible, but because everyone is saying he'll try to double-cross you (who ISN'T saying that...) then we just assume he's doing as everyone predicted: double crossing us.
I murdered him because it was opportunistic. Consider him a victim of fate.
Why do we kill Zoltun? Because he drops loot, obviously!

I mean, every Diablo 'hero' is basically an obsessive-compulsive hoarder of gold, gems, and magic items who is willing (or even eager) to resort to murder to fulfill this all-consuming need.

The only reason we didn't kill Cain ourselves in a previous game is because we somehow knew that he wouldn't drop anything useful on death (other than a magic sword Tyrael keeps ninja-ing).


I just want to point out that this is the best explanation in this thread period.
I think the reason Kulle is even perceived as bad is because what perceived as good in the Diablo universe is equal treatment (see Tyrael for vouching for humans). Kulle simply wanted a master race.

It's perceived as good if you're part of the master race but bad otherwise. ;)
So basically we kill the guy because we wanted to use the black soulstone, which he invented and is right fully his property, to give to the Adria.

Why kill the man?

Couldn't we ask him to make one for us? oh wait for it..

yes, that's right, we were taking orders from the evil witch.
Feel free to correct me if im wrong, i know i most certainly am to some extent.

1. He may have been "immortal" (someone killed him before, we found him dead) but he was recently restored. At least hinting to a bit of weakness.
2. We didn't attack him, after we put him together he predictably attacked us, he even had demons summoned to fight if i recall. Leading to knowing he was going to attack us by preparing.
3. He lies, a lot.Even when my witchdoctor told him i knew he was lying he would simply disappear laughing the whole time. No one would tell you absolute truth and then simply dismiss it by laughing and moving away, unless he truly thought he was the absolute good and was going to kill us right off the bat to make sure the greater good was sought. And even then i doubt he would laugh maniacally, wouldn't he feel bad for our misguided selves? Or has he done this before and thinks its silly that humans automatically assume angels are good?
When Kulle attacked us he had the right of it. He was the one with every reason to believe that the player, the Nephalem, was up to some evil.

For all we know, after he said "nephalem, give up your quest the stone is useless now" he had a /facepalm moment and thought "!@#$ me! this guy knows! there isn't anyone controlling him, he is willingly doing it". You don't give a loaded gun to a murder suspect, even if the guy turns out to be innocent, he still has to go through a trial. Any sensible person in the world, would back out of a deal if something like that happened. The nephalem should have seem it and understood it.

Worst is, perception is a %^-*!. If you look at the big picture, Kulle had the right of it, there was some serious @#$% going on. On the other hand, you are made to believe Kulle was a dishonest man, who had evil plans himself, that you knew the hole history.

It is actually one of the few parts of D3 history I thought had enormous potential, it needed some fine touch to polish it, but it had some depth to it. Even if the player doesn't completely distrusts kulle, he should know there is something fishy going on. He shouldn't be able to put a finger on it, but knows there is. This is diablo and it should be dark, killing a 'innocent' man while thinking he is wrong is something that fits very well.

What I would've done different, is that I would make Kulle put the seed of doubt on the players mind before he dies. In my mind, kulle would say "I see it now. The witchs. The both of them have put you up to it. I'll prove it to you, and I'll do you one better, I'll kill them both."

The witchs obviously being Leah and Aria. To do so, he shouldn't have much contact with Leah after she wakes him up. The player may not fully trust Aria, but he knows Leah, and helped her since the begging, he knows she is good. She couldn't possible be up to something, and Kulle threatening her life didn't gave him much credibility.

The way it turned out the player looks like a bullheaded guy unwilling to argue or try to see Kulle points. He should have tried to ask "what is the meaning of this? the souls of the lords of hell in here, this can't be good!"

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