Enrage timers incompatible with 1.0.3 design

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There's been countless posts pointing out everything wrong with enrage timers, and not much insight given by the design team for the justification of enrage timers.
The justification is that you shouldn't be allowed to kite an enemy to death over an infinite amount of time. If it takes longer than X minutes (honestly don't know what the enrage timer is), then you either need to farm lower Acts to gear up, or you need to re-evaluate your build to kill the mobs more efficiently.

The problem I see with this logic is that if it's taking you ages to kill mobs... you already ARE being penalized. Diablo is about farming, and taking 10+ minutes to kill a few mobs is severely gimping your farming time. I don't see anything wrong with getting the rewards at a slower rate.


Exactly.. it's all about player choice, not about what a designer thinks a player should or should not be able to do. The costs are there.

In a game with virtual possessions, people will do what is most efficient for them to gain money. Even if it is mind-numbingly boring. They will break vases, or farm the same boss over and over if it is efficient.

Being able to get gear in the act that they "should" be able to do at a decent rate is nice. But it would also be nice to, once in awhile, to breakup the routine and try something new, adventure into a place that they have no business being in.. and taking on difficult challenges at the edge of what their gear resources allow-- that can be fun. It will be a long struggle and of course gear will be more consistent in the previous act, but it breaks up the boredom.

An enrage timer is a design message that says, "No, you should not be here. Get out and go back to an earlier act. You need to just keep farming that." This stands out like purple clothing at a funeral with the 1.0.3 loot system.
06/11/2012 02:58 AMPosted by Shiyo
I have never hit an enrage timer, anyone doing so does not belong in that act and should not be attempting to kill said elites. It exists to tell you "hey, you're not geared or good enough to do this, get out". If you're constantly hitting an enrage timer you need to fix what you're doing, because you're doing something HORRIBLY wrong.


I don't hit enrage timers either, but still... What's wrong with accepting the lost time as the penalty? There is a difference between farming and just playing the game. If you're taking that long to kill things you are already failing to successfully farm. I don't see why an artificial limit should be in place to prevent people from even advancing in the game.

I know it's said a million times on here...but it bears repeating. Diablo is...DIABLO. Not WoW. Progression itself doesn't need hardcaps like this. It's just silly.
enrage timer is fine...
the rez timer and checkpoints is retarded
should just rez after 3 sec at corpse and make you invulnerable for 3secs


orly, so that is your idea of penalty for death? In d2 you started always in town and with no gear, so even those retarded checkpoints and no item loss is better and easier.
06/11/2012 02:11 AMPosted by Zouf
Enrage timer is a poor mechanism in any game. It denies personal skill over gear.


OOOOOOooooooooo, like this game was NOT a complete gear check with absolutely 0 SKILL involved before enrage timers were introduced.

With no gear = gotta dodge and evade every single move elites have, and kite it for 10+ minutes

With gear = close your eyes and tank everything. O wait, they are probably dead before they even hit you.
The enrage timer is basicaly blizz saying "You are not having fun in a Blizzard proscribed manner. Please return to the previous level and spend some weeks farming !@#$ in the hopes that 1 or two good pieces drop for you. If you don't wish to do that , maybe you'd like to try our RMAH and buy some pretend items for real money"

IMHO enrage timers have no place in Diablo. If someone can manage to kite a 4 affix pack with really crappy combos for 20 mins before they manage to kill them then props to them

Enrage timers are an MMO mechanic designed to keep playing longer so they can keep paying their monthly subs. Too many ex WoW devs on this team. Enrage timers shouldn't be here
daily morning bump
I really don't agree with that philosophy. Kiting is a perfectly fine strategy, and it seems like it was only recent that they have decided to put rage timers into the game. It really comes down to a question of skill vs gear.
Now imagine, Shielding,Immune Minions,Vampiric, Extra Health,
Now go! kill them within the enrage timer. good luck :)
Enrage timers just feel like another (hopefully unintended) loophole to avoid natural progress and direct people into the AH. Especially combined with the coming increase in repair-costs change in 1.03.

Furthermore, there will always be packs that are difficult for each class, no matter how efficient you are (perhaps unless you have real über-gear).
My wizard has "a short butchery" for act I inferno, and not only for the butcher himself. So this wizard is very effective/efficient up to act I inferno. Untill she meets an already fast melee-pack with "invulnerable minions, extra health, fast, x".

Such packs require time or a very specific build. I.e. player skill. With the enrage timer you are denied time and Blizz is also promoting build-diversity. Not to mention changing your build will cost you your stack of NV. Player skill is not allowed?

So yes, I want to be able to take my time for some specific elite packs every once in a while and this says NOTHING about effectiveness/efficiency of my/a character.
+1 for a removal of the enrage timer.

Furthermore, there will always be packs that are difficult for each class, no matter how efficient you are (perhaps unless you have real über-gear).
My wizard has "a short butchery" for act I inferno, and not only for the butcher himself. So this wizard is very effective/efficient up to act I inferno. Untill she meets an already fast melee-pack with "invulnerable minions, extra health, fast, x".


Blizzard has mentioned that difficult packs are meant to be skipped, and that the player can go back later with more gear to kill the same pack and feel a sense of progression. But skipping still feels like a bad mechanic. It leaves a bad aftertaste.

The same sense of progression can be measured by spending a lot of time for an epic fight-- and not be punished for it-- and coming back to it and then spending less time.
(...) But skipping still feels like a bad mechanic. It leaves a bad aftertaste.

The same sense of progression can be measured by spending a lot of time for an epic fight-- and not be punished for it-- and coming back to it and then spending less time.


I agree wholeheartedly. Especially when the pack is hard to skip because it blocks your progression.

Also, as someone in this thread already said, why do we need to be punished with some unavoidable death(s) (and if that is not enough, large repaircosts -see what they will be after 1.03) if we are already being punished by having to deal with the problem pack for much longer than usual.

'Cheating death' it is called? I'd rather call it player skill and devotion. Epic fight if you will. If a players' gear is really so bad this player will die a lot anyway to a multitude of elite packs instead of just one, even without enrage timers.

Now the only thing the enrage timer does is telling us how to play the game 'Blizzard-style', denying us our own while also denying what little skill over gear the game requires.
Thanks for the post enfo. Yeah I think we essentially agree with you, and think removing enrage timers is a real possibility at some point in the future. However, it's not a change we'd be looking to make at the same time. We want to see how the drop changes work out in 1.0.3, see how all the other changes might effect it and each other, and then make a decision and see if it's something we can/want to do in a later patch.
06/13/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
Thanks for the post enfo. Yeah I think we essentially agree with you, and think removing enrage timers is a real possibility at some point in the future. However, it's not a change we'd be looking to make at the same time. We want to see how the drop changes work out in 1.0.3, see how all the other changes might effect it and each other, and then make a decision and see if it's something we can/want to do in a later patch.


Its nice to see the consideration. While I'm not against enrage timers as a whole they really don't fit some of the mechanics. Take Shielding/Extra Health/Horde packs, they are designed to take much longer to kill but the time given before enrage is the same. Don't even get me started on stuff like the Angels or Fallen with the shields on top of some of these mechanics.

This same concept applies to anything else that forces you to not DPS for large periods of time, at the very least the affixes should have an effect on the base enrage timer.
There's one thing I can say about Enrage timers... they are an artificial !@#$ block designed to impede players instead of challenge the players.

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