Blizzard, a serious word regarding meteor

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I think it's safe to say Blizzard should just, overall, stop touching Wizard class. Every time they try to mess with it, useful skills get nerfed way too hard and they kill the whole class while leaving other classes clearly better untouched.

Your gear is amazing. Have you played much on the PTR? How well do you do:
1. Without running any form of CM Build?
2. Without running Frost Nova in your build?
3. Without running Diamond Skin in your build?

Can you make a build that uses none of the above 3 skills that can kill stuff past MP8, even at your absurdly high gear level?

Fact of the matter is, people are under the impression that you need 100% cc to play a Wizard because if you are playing a melee wizard you DO need 100% CC due to us having horrible passive defenses. Without 100% CC, we go splat in melee range. Hell we can hardly manage to use our channeled skills other than archon disintegrate in higher MP levels because of how much damage you take channeling long enough to kill a ranged mob.

I'm not currently geared for a pure CM build, but I imagine arcane orb builds with diamond skin and/or teleport with fracture would be fairly trivial for higher MP levels. I actually still like kiting builds, but it's hard to justify using it over an archon build. Perhaps if they provide more incentive to play on higher MP levels I might try that every now and then.

Anyway, as long as you can take a few hits I don't think high MP levels are a problem with a standard kiting build. Back in the day every wizard was using force armor and could only take 3 hits at most. Sure it would be slow, but right now there isn't much incentive to farm higher MP levels anyway unless you are ridiculously overgeared (probably not possible to be overgeared enough for MP8+ to be worthwhile).

e: and wizards can definitely take a lot of hits as we get tons of resitances from int and also have extremely powerful defensive skills.

e2: in fact, kiting is ridiculously easy due to the changes to snare effects in 1.05

Wizards are, in fact, the WORST kite class. If I Wanted to kite I would run something good at it like my DH or a Barb. I play my wiz to use channeled and point blank spells. I don't play it to be a gimp DH.

And I don't play it to take 10 minutes to kill an elite pack either. My undergeared barb in throw spec does way more damage, has more survivability, and is just flat out better at kiting.

I play wiz to use all the skills. I don't want to be relegated to arcane orb orb kiting, particularly when arcane orb is such a horrible, horrible spell.
The idiots at blizzard clearly had no friggin clue what they were doing when they made the wizard class.
Guys, guys! We can stop complaining! Blizzard listened to us!! WEEEEHOOOOO!!1!!11!!


- Arcane Power cost reduced from 20 to 18 per period
- Weapon damage increased from 155% to 170%
- Skill Rune - Chaos Nexus
Weapon damage increased from 40% to 44%
- Skill Rune - Entropy
Weapon damage increased from 178% to 196%
- Skill Rune - Intesify
Weapon damage increased from 202% to 221%

Oh wait no.

Disintegrate was utter garbage before this "buff" and it is utter garbage still.

If you want Disintegrate to even be of a passing interest to any wizard out there with 1/8th of a brain, you might start with making ALL RUNES the same width as CONVERGENCE.

There's a reason convergence isn't being buffed like the other runes, and it's because Blizzard saw it was the most popular of the Disintegrate spells, and that's because zero wizards use the other runes. The 37 or so Wizards in the world that do use Convergence, use it because they like a wide Beam that penetrates through enemies.



Not as useless as Ray of Frost, mind you, which doesn't even penetrate through mobs, much less walls, and is so narrow you can only slow 1 mob at a time with the tiny little useless beam.

But, even with Disintegrate's ability to penetrate mobs, it still has it's drawbacks, like it can't shoot through the Waller Affix, and has issues with penetrating terrain that makes Shock Pulse Piercing Orb much more desirable because it oscillates and covers a wider path. And, BTW Shock pulse - Piercing Orb is far superior to Disintegrate - Convergence in one other way, and that is IT COSTS 0 ARCANE POWER TO CAST. Reducing the AP cost on Disintegrate from 18 to 16 per tick isn't really going to make it that much more appealing than it already is. Maybe those 37 wizards that use it will be a little happier though, so there's that.

Don't even get me started on Disintegrate - Entropy. Really? A Melee build ability that doesn't proc CM worth a damn? That's really useful. Oh wait, you nerfed all the Melee build spells to not proc worth a damn, that's right. Nevermind, I guess it fits right in with the Wizard toolkit then.

Oh, and while we are on the topic of melee build spells, Ray of Frost - Sleet storm is completely useless too, Why, you might ask?

Because, YOU CAN NOT MOVE WHILE CASTING IT, that's #1. Every time you move you have to turn it off, and because of the way the spell works, you are now doing ZERO damage because the spell has no residuals like ET or Meteor, making it vastly inferior. Energy Twisters remain for a few seconds, and Meteors can be cast multiple times on a delay that then fall onto your enemies giving you the option to move if you choose between casts. That was enough to make it so no one ever used it for any kind of CM based build, but then you went and double whammied us with the the reduced proc scalar just to make sure it was COMPLETELY useless! As if that proc scalar nerf was even remotely necessary.

I could go down the list with every single Wizard Spell and explain what makes the spell undesirable, difficult to use, inefficient, and not practical, except for a very, very short list, but I haven't the time or the inclination. Besides, I don't think Blizzard is even listening to anything we tell them anymore. That is becoming more and more clear by the butchering that is being done to our class with every patch. Just one wreckless nerf after another. And, these inconsequential buffs to spells that will never amount to anything, because they are based on mechanics that are fundamentally flawed. It's enough to make any Wizard who has tried them giggle at first at how little Blizzard understands our class, and the very spells they designed for it, but then when the reality of our situation sinks in we cry (or just give up and roll a barb).
^Exactly right. Even with this useless buff disintegrate still sucks. Wow a tiny increase in % but they still didn't think about you having to stand there and TANK monsters coming at you. Channeling spells like disintegrate and ray of frost are the WORST.
The real problem is CM... and you keep nerfing proc rates. CM is the reason Front Nova and Diamond Skin are spammable. Fix the link between those two things, and everything else falls into place.

Make it so that critical mass stops taking affect once a skill goes below 50% of its cooldown. That's my suggestion.

They don't like you spamming diamond skin and frost nova and being almost invincible.

The problem is, we are either "almost invincible" or we're dead, because if we take a few hits without Diamond Skin on ... well, you know the result.

Of course, as the OP pointed out, decreasing the proc rate on Meteor makes the skill essentially useless for us, given that we essentially are forced to use CM in order to regenerate (sorry couldn't think of a better word) skills like DS in order to stay alive.

Sooo...end result? As others have pointed out, I guess we either switch back to WW or call it.

I know I'm leveling my barb (almost to 60) and selling off my Wizard stuff. Just not worth playing this class anymore.
I got my barb to lvl 37 last nite... more barb crunching to come... I need to be prepared to regear my wizard by playing barb..

btw: is there a viable infinite spam seismic slam dps build? heh.. it feels almost like eb , wish I had an infinite seismic slam + ground stomp wrenching smash combo..
@anwar that is spot on bro, either we are invincible or we are dead.
10/03/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance.

Need to remind how many times that not to mention the word balance or balancing the game?
There is no balance ever exist in diablo 3 because you guys never test the balance and release it to the public.Let me ask you some question....
Do movement speed balance?(Capped at 25% yet we can easily outrun by mob),Do elite or champ pack affix cooldown balance?(Whole screen also arcane laser,fire trail and frozen that going to blow called BALANCE?),by nerf ing wizard proc eff at 50% or more and buff unused skill for 10% or 30% extra damage call BALANCE?

Maybe i dont really get what Blizzard so called BALANCE can you explain?

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But we are absolutely working on them.

So your game designer tell you that this isnt the skill synergy where he wants it to be and will be improve in the future?and you guys still looking for it?Then why the hell want to nerf it now?New skil synergy you cant make it on this patch but nerf you can?Seriously am i talking to a 2 years old Blizzard worker here?
^Nope, they're done commenting on us wizards. They came. They nerfed. They Jay Wilson'd.

@Anwar and Lycanar, couldn't agree more with your posts.
this is sad. i started to like my meteor spec (1.0.4). it wasn't easy to play, and it wasn't as good as the (overpowered?) stormchaser stuff. i cannot understand why barbs are fine. a friend of mine facerolls anything with it and clears his act3 farmroute in 20 minutes. he does so much more dmg than any wizard, yet you nurf wizards - again?

that's NOT balance. d3 is less and less fun after every new patch. i guess soon it's over.
10/05/2012 05:56 AMPosted by spliff
that's NOT balance. d3 is less and less fun after every new patch. i guess soon it's over.

Very soon
The proc scalar nerfs to meteor and storm chaser obviously go way too far. Obviously, it would have made more sense to make critical mass less effective when it interacts with frost nova.

On to channeling spells.

The RoF increased movement speed reduction will help a little bit but if they want it to be viable, they need to add one more effect. RoF also needs to dramatically reduce the mobs' attack speed, maybe by 50% or so. That would make it more useful in multiplayer than the suggestions we are seeing on the forums for damage reduction while channeling. Combined with slow time, this would give wizards an effective form of crowd control other than frost nova, which is currently our only effective crowd control spell

Disintegrate needs to return a significant portion of the damage done as life. And it needs to apply a DoT effect after the channeling ends based on how long the mob has been in the beam. They could have it hit for 40% weapon damage over 2 seconds per second the mob was in the beam. The DoT effect doesn't start until the channeling ends, and it stops if you hit it with disintegrate again. Cap it at 200% weapon damage over 2 seconds. The DoT does not add the aforementioned healing effect.

Example 1: Hit mob for 1.5 seconds and run away. Mob takes 30% weapon damage per second for a total of 60% weapon damage over 2 seconds.

Example 2: Hit mob for 5 seconds, channeling gets interrupted, start channeling again 1 second later. Mob takes 100% weapon damage per second for a total of 100% weapon damage over 1 second.

Example 3: Hit mob for 6 seconds and run away. Mob takes 100% weapon damage per second for a toal of 200% weapon damage over 2 seconds.
I decided to cancel both of my WOW accounts out spite, no more extra money for blizzard if you are going to slash and burn the class I like. And whoever said talk to the Starcraft team, exactly! Change skills a little bit, a point here or there. Gonna reroll barb until 1.06..7 or whenever they decide to fix us. I hate the PTR, my class just feels terrible even at low MP levels.

Also agree with Anwar, there will never be build diversity if our options are invincible or dead. It was fun to play around with different spells leveling but most layouts in inferno I get crushed if I try and play it. I dont have 1,000 hours played more like 160 at p lvl 22, but that should be enough where my character doesn't totally suck.

Despite the fact most wizards are adaptables to nerfs and being diversed.

WE CERTAINLY received most "LOVE" from Blizzard compare to other class


I am still waiting for the one skill for wizard do 700% or 1500% weapon damage even if it's a mistake.
While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces changes to defensive bonuses and monster damage, but also the Monster Power system, and numerous crowd control improvements. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But we are absolutely working on them.

While I do agree that perma-freezing is inbalanced and should be prevented, I am just really concerned about that fact nerfing proc-coefficient is also nerfing LoH, APoH, wizard's many passive ability and many other states. Wouldn't that reduce the build diversity dramatically?

In addition, is the reduction amount for proc-coefficient based on random guessing of the value, or is it actually thoroughly tested or calculated to be reduced by certain amount?

I believe the main issue is CM, but not the proc-coefficient of the skills.
In addition, is the reduction amount for proc-coefficient based on random guessing of the value, or is it actually thoroughly tested or calculated to be reduced by certain amount?

I believe the main issue is CM, but not the proc-coefficient of the skills.

Guessing..... just like what wyatt say.....When we cut the number we will cut by half or more otherwise wont bother do it.

From beginning it is the root(CM) but at a mind of a 2 years old game designer they rather change few skill than change single skill.
Hey guys, is it possible that given the crowd control changes, permafreeze is no longer possible or extremely difficult due to elite modifier adjustments?



If so, they should give us back our procs...

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