Current Criticisms to bear in mind for 1.0.5

General Discussion
You are upset for similar reasons I am upset. However i take my time to consolidate my opinions and voice them. You however have not thought out any of your complaints and are only wasting your time trolling and raising my replies to get my thread seen more.

I'm glad you think I'm ignorant and doing oh so poor with my sub par machine, and my fail life.

I'm actually quite satisfied with my life, and the only reason i want graphics reductions is because i play this game on a laptop, and i don't feel that's an unreasonable request. Quit forgetting the poor souls with really good systems that are having issues the poor tier 1/2 tech support reps in the technical support forum can't seem to fix. Offering the option to turn stuff down would help alleviate these issues for alot of people. I do feel like less negative reviews of this game would increase sales, also.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for trying to contribute to my thread though, better luck next time!
If you think I'm trolling why are you responding?

Stop taking posts on forums so personally. Negativity on this forum is going to be plentiful, obviously.


I'm not taking it personally, I'm making you take it personally. Because I don't like people like you who create systems where negativity breeds, and I don't feel like a forum like this -has- to be filled with people like YOU. I will -always- make you look like an idiot for the dumb things you say on my threads. If you don't like being called out, I suggest you read who posts the threads and stay away from mine, or challenge yourself to actually think about the dumb **** you say.

If you opt to neither stay away, nor reflect on what you want to say, you will always get this sort of response from me, and it won't affect my day. You're only raising my replies and keeping my thread alive.
10/06/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Dalamarius
Because I don't like people like you who create systems where negativity breeds, and I don't feel like a forum like this -has- to be filled with people like YOU.
Truth hurts I know. Sorry I can't put a positive spin on things that are truly negative.

10/06/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Dalamarius
I will -always- make you look like an idiot for the dumb things you say on my threads. If you don't like being called out, I suggest you read who posts the threads and stay away from mine, or challenge yourself to actually think about the dumb **** you say.
Actually I don't think you are. You're just going off topic with your personal crusade against negative opinions on internet forums. Either counter my points or there is nothing left to discuss.
10/06/2012 09:48 PMPosted by Atraps
Either counter my points or there is nothing left to discuss.


I'm sorry, what was your point? That allowing people with lesser systems to have a better gameplay experience wouldn't increase sales?

I directly responded to what you said, and none of it was even logical. You just went off on this cynics quest to rant about how nothing I was posting matters because the game is already so destroyed and not finished as it is.

And then there's the point where you assumed I was of lesser income because i suggested more control of graphics and system settings in general. Which actually, is so far from right it's comical on my end.

.....or was it your point where you tried to convince me that the world is lost and forums will always have trolls, so it's just ok that you're a piece of ****? Because that point i didn't even feel like deserved to be dignified by a response.

None of what you thought were points were even directly related to what i posted about, go start your own thread and cross breed with more cynical negative people.
I was going to write up a nice extra long essay just for you, but alas it was lost when asked to login again... My fault for not foreseeing that.

Ah well, I humbly bow down before your greatness, and apologize about any offenses I may have caused you.
I was going to write up a nice extra long essay just for you, but alas it was lost when asked to login again... My fault for not foreseeing that.

Ah well, I humbly bow down before your greatness, and apologize about any offenses I may have caused you.


.... what was the point in posting that? to attempt to mock me by forcing the use of vocabulary you clearly don't understand? Stay off my threads moron.
Just going to say there's no real mystery to the drop system, especially in D2, as the game had been dissected and modified by countless individuals over the years, myself among them. And aside from the introduction of NV, D3's system is basically a carbon copy with more restricted item levels replacing D2's broader treasure class system.

The process goes as follows:
1) First decide if a mob is going to drop an item on kill based on a roll that isn't at all affected by MF.

2) If an item is rolled, it will then go on to choose the item level. This isn't as simple as picking 52, 53, ..., 63. Rather, these levels are given a range like 1-1000 for 52, 1001-1900 for 53, and something like 9000-9100 for 63. These numbers by no means reflect the actual in-game numbers, but instead create the percentage chance for a specific tier to roll. The game would roll 1-9100, and if you got 9012, it'd be an ilvl63.

3) Now that the item tier has been determined, we repeat this process for items within the tier. As Blizzard has explained, class-specific items currently have a lesser drop chance than other items within the same tier. Why? They have a smaller range within the overall pool.

4) With the specific item selected, we finally roll MF. Select mobs, like bosses and goblins, are going to have "bonuses" applied to their base MF value. What MF ultimately does is improve the ranges of the specific tiers, starting at legendary (1), set (2-5), 6 mod rare (6-100), and so on down to gray. If you have 300% MF, the legendary range would go from 1-3, set from 7-13, 6 mod rare from 14-300, and down the line. More than likely these bonus numbers are also subtracted from the gray pool. But with an MF cap in place, we can never determine if it's actually possible to prevent gray or whites from ever dropping. But the total range pool could be something like 1-100000, where as you'd expect, the lesser quality the drop, the wider it's range. Oh, and with the earlier mention of base MF, something like a boss could start with that 1-3, on legendary prior to applying to MF, up to 1-9 with, while white fodder would be 1. From the D2 perspective, this also why stuff like Meph or Baal runs were so productive because their default ranges were so high, MF just became all the more better the bigger your starting number is.

5) With the item tier selected, we then select the mods from their affix pools and roll their ranges. As with class-specific items, it is possible certain mods are programmed to roll more frequently than others. There is no proof, however, that there's a bias for something like an INT 1-150 roll to roll closer to 1 than 150. Random is random.

There is no "bonus" for doing uber damage here. The actual bonus for having high DPS will be killing mobs far more quickly than lesser geared individuals. And while you can't call doing 3 runs to someone's 1 a 200% "increase" to MF, it is simply more chances to get items to go through the whole drop process, meaning you're more statistically likely to see a given item eventually. Of course, you may never, while someone gets 2 in a row. Such is random.

Again, no numbers used actually reflect those in D3. I'm sure someone out there has picked apart the game to such a degree, but if not, you could call that a "perk" of online only with some pertinent mechanics being server-side.
10/07/2012 01:22 AMPosted by Saidosha
There is no "bonus" for doing uber damage here. The actual bonus for having high DPS will be killing mobs far more quickly than lesser geared individuals. And while you can't call doing 3 runs to someone's 1 a 200% "increase" to MF, it is simply more chances to get items to go through the whole drop process, meaning you're more statistically likely to see a given item eventually. Of course, you may never, while someone gets 2 in a row. Such is random.


I have killed 3-4 times as many elites as you have as per our profiles, and probably 4-5 times as many trash. I have played D3 since release day, through all patch revisions, and i document on paper the IP address, time, and amount of mobs killed -every time- i get a legendary. None of that matters publicly, but I have done my research, and I have a theory. Unless you have something constructive to contribute, quit bashing my theory as if you have any idea what you're talking about.

I disagree, and I never said uber damage gave you bonuses. I do feel sprees and amount of mobs killed in a short period of time increase drop rates, as shown by the difference between archon'ing an entire pack of spiders versus killing 1 at a time out of 25. There is a difference, whether or not you believe so does not matter to me. I have done enough research in this game, not D2, to believe there is a hidden modifier that is undisclosed.

I respect your knowledge of D2, but if you've noticed anything at all about D3, it is only loosely based on D2, so good luck using that as a basis for any arguement anywhere on the forums. I do believe there is a modifier, and I think alot of people at camp blue know what I am talking about.
I have enough reason to believe what I say to make me feel comfortable bringing it up in public. I can't offer anything but conjecture, i'm not even here to talk to you. There's someone else that needs to read this, and your lack of contribution to the thread isn't going to do anything but raise my thread reads.

So for that, thank you, but other than that, what did you expect to contribute?

LOL this is the internet, people feel comfortable saying anything.
Boil it down
his computer is junk - read the requirements on the box- they lower them and lol graphics stink threads will be next big whine.

He just wants easier play

If people can't figure out the stats they need to stop playing

Izual drops a part needed for the bonus level I believe. That is all I ever looked for when killing him. BTW one of the easier to kill.

Apreciate people posting thought, just these are not worth changing 1 line of code.


Izual is no easier than Mahgda in comparison to his and her respective tiers, sure, if izual gets a boss loot table people will farm 5 stacks and do him, over and over. But is that really worse than the idiots chain farming siegebreaker? It's not easy to get 5 stacks in act 4 compared to act 3, so I'm not sure what the point in complaining about that would be.

You are just as retarded as the other idiots telling me my system is terribad. Go read technical supprot forums and look at the dozens of people with current gen graphics cards, good ram and good procs having issues with this game. I run D3 off a 2800 dollar laptop, sure, i expect graphics to be less impressive on a laptop, but quit acting like i spent less money on my system than you did and somehow that merits you the ability to play D3 more reliably and less laggy than anyone else you sorry piece of ***.

There are -tons- of technical issues, and having more control over the graphics settings isn't hard, and would help alot of people, so it makes sense to spend the 3-4 hours coding it.
If people can't figure out the stats they need to stop playing.


After checking your profile and noticing that you haven't even completed inferno, then coming on my thread and telling me that I should understand stats or quit playing the game. I give you 2 hours from now to tell me what "Adds 6% to Fire Damage, Adds 6% to Holy Damage, etc etc" means.

That stat does not make -any- sense at all, and 95% of the playerbase don't even understand how it works. I'm willing to bet you're not in the 5% that does jackass.

You are way out of your league getting on my threads and questioning my intelligence without providing any positive contribution at all.

I will admit, your argument for Izual is probably why he is the way he is, and some people may agree. However it's not logical.
@ OP
Good read Your post is very well thought out . This post definitly deserves to be read by blues. Unfortunately blue doesn't seems to read this forum and post moves very quickly in general discussions. So I'd suggest you post this at PTR feedback as well.
@ OP
Good read Your post is very well thought out . This post definitly deserves to be read by blues. Unfortunately blue doesn't seems to read this forum and post moves very quickly in general discussions. So I'd suggest you post this at PTR feedback as well.


Thank you, if you gather any of your own information, even if it conflicts please take the time to post.
10/07/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Dalamarius
Thank you, if you gather any of your own information, even if it conflicts please take the time to post.


Unfortunately no I've deleted my toons and uninstalled so i haven't touched the PTR.

But if you want me to pick any bones I'd like you to rethink the marco part. Not only because people will abuse the feature, but also it would be inconvenience sometimes without marco. FOr example I bind my middle-mouse-button to hold left click with autohotkey so I won't break my idex finger while walking a long jorney. So I think marco should be allowed to a certan extent.

However abusive marco such as refreshing the AH every 30 seconds and automatically buyout items at certan prices should not be allowed. It should be up to the developers to decide whwere the line is drawn.
10/07/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Cleric
Thank you, if you gather any of your own information, even if it conflicts please take the time to post.


Unfortunately no I've deleted my toons and uninstalled so i haven't touched the PTR.

But if you want me to pick any bones I'd like you to rethink the marco part. Not only because people will abuse the feature, but also it would be inconvenience sometimes without marco. FOr example I bind my middle-mouse-button to hold left click with autohotkey so I won't break my idex finger while walking a long jorney. So I think marco should be allowed to a certan extent.

However abusive marco such as refreshing the AH every 30 seconds and automatically buyout items at certan prices should not be allowed. It should be up to the developers to decide whwere the line is drawn.


I'm not sure about mice and keyboards with extra buttons, does the client not natively support those?

Really what I want to see removed are the people farming hell with goldskins on complete automation for 6-7 hours. They generate millions of gold and they aren't even present. This is clearly a violation of what Blizzard intended.


I'm glad you think I'm ignorant and doing oh so poor with my sub par machine, and my fail life.

I'm actually quite satisfied with my life, and the only reason i want graphics reductions is because i play this game on a laptop, and i don't feel that's an unreasonable request. Quit forgetting the poor souls with really good systems that are having issues the poor tier 1/2 tech support reps in the technical support forum can't seem to fix. Offering the option to turn stuff down would help alleviate these issues for alot of people. I do feel like less negative reviews of this game would increase sales, also.


Run it at 800x600 lowest settings. If that doesnt do it, the time to get a better laptop.
10/07/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Monsta
Run it at 800x600 lowest settings. If that doesnt do it, the time to get a better laptop.


How can this many people post on a thread without reading what was originally written. My system runs this game perfectly fine on it's max native resolution. I have -zero- issues.

I think spell particle clutter is annoying, and for less headaches i think it alot of people would prefer to be able to turn particles down.

Quit commenting on my system, i don't have issues. I'm bringing this up because alot of people do.
10/07/2012 12:11 AMPosted by Dalamarius
.... what was the point in posting that? to attempt to mock me by forcing the use of vocabulary you clearly don't understand? Stay off my threads moron.
Looks like you didn't accept my apology so lets continue.

10/06/2012 09:56 PMPosted by Dalamarius
I'm sorry, what was your point? That allowing people with lesser systems to have a better gameplay experience wouldn't increase sales?
That's right. Diablo 3 is already one of the best selling PC games of all time. Explain to me how turning off a graphical effect here and there will lead to “a huge increase in sales”. You couldn't. Instead you rambled on about your personal life and saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about. No you don't. Get off your high horse and admit you were wrong.

10/06/2012 09:56 PMPosted by Dalamarius
You just went off on this cynics quest to rant about how nothing I was posting matters
I responded to a certain section of your entire post. You actually had some valid points in the OP, so I don't really know what you're talking about. You also seem to think I don't want your thread to be seen. The OP does have some valid points so why the hell should it not be seen?

10/06/2012 09:56 PMPosted by Dalamarius
And then there's the point where you assumed I was of lesser income because i suggested more control of graphics and system settings in general. Which actually, is so far from right it's comical on my end.
That actually isn't true, but if you think it is lets have at it. I assume you are low income? You say “so far from right it's comical on my end.”. Ok then, go buy yourself a laptop capable of running the game properly and stop whining about the lack of support for low end systems. Seriously is that even worth complaining about in Diablo 3?

10/07/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Dalamarius
Go read technical supprot forums and look at the dozens of people with current gen graphics cards, good ram and good procs having issues with this game.
Stop going off topic. Fixing bugs and glitches is not the same as giving us options to turn off graphical effects. They need go in and fix those issues not band-aid it by allowing us to turn off effects.

10/07/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Dalamarius
I run D3 off a 2800 dollar laptop
You mean the same laptop that has a 512MB Quadro FX 770M? That card is not going to run games well as it wasn't designed for it. It's like using a Rolls Royce to race with.

As a final note what kind of person comes up with crap like this?
10/06/2012 06:06 PMPosted by Dalamarius
we're smack in the middle of an economic crisis worldwide, and there are -alot- of people playing your games on sub par machines.

I do however think you would drastically increase your customer base, and life of your RMAH if you offered very basic tweaks to turn off extra particles.

10/06/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Dalamarius
they would see a huge increase in sales and more blood in both the RMAH
Someone who has no problem taking advantage of weak simple minded low income people making the game more accessible to them by lowering the game's requirements with hopes of them coming to the RMAH blackhole. Scum of the earth.
@Atraps

Quoting your last post just gets excessively long, so I'm not going to do that.

My comment saying that increasing the player base increases the gold and RMAH across the board was valid, and makes sense. I never said cater to low end systems, or people that have them, and I never said i expected my system to run Diablo 3 with all the bells and whistles running.

My system is playing this game just fine with 45 fps, on max resolution, with only the physics and the shadows turn off, which i Don't care about.

The problem, which I stated, is the blundering idiots in Technical support with less than tier 1 tech qualifications aren't able to accurately assess what is causing all of the graphics issues lots of people are having. So rather than losing all the people who are sitting around waiting for all of these problems to iron themselves out, hundreds of players, if not thousands due to this very small inconvenience, I suggested a compromise, even if it's only temporary until the graphics problems are solved.

I never suggested exploiting low income people to sap their money, I actually frown on that sort of behavior. I simply stated that increasing the options to control the way the client affects a user's pc will improve many of the issues alot of people are having, and at very minimal cost.

If you want to attack that go ahead, attack what I am saying, but do not put words in my mouth, and do not suggest that I am anywhere near as cynical or scummy as the people you associate with. I made genuine suggestions, and whereas now your points are little more clear, they are still as loosely based and off topic as you've accused my posts of being.

Quit getting angry and read, and if you find a word you don't understand the definition or the context to, I suggest you do not use your imagination, because clearly your mind has failed you.

Someone who has no problem taking advantage of weak simple minded low income people making the game more accessible to them by lowering the game's requirements with hopes of them coming to the RMAH blackhole. Scum of the earth.


There is also very little correlation between being low income and being simple minded. Just as your high horse and quality PC system says nothing about the complexity of your mind.

10/06/2012 07:45 PMPosted by Atraps
People ought to get their priorities straight. If you can't afford a system that runs Diablo 3 properly I suggest you don't waste your money buying useless !@#$ off the RMAH.


Yes, if that was what I had said, that would be wrong. But never once did i suggest that people of lower incomes should spend money in the RMAH, that would be foolish. I said the entire market needs stimulation, and by increasing playerbase you achieve this. From the very first post you made you -never- read what I wrote, and when i called you out for it, you desperately lashed out with unrelated, unfounded accusations to try and defend yourself, because you felt you were right, and that I was wrong to attack you.


GTFO my threads if you're not going to read.
There's a term in programming called KISS, or Keep It Simple, Stupid. This applies both to the logic of creating a situation and the actual code behind it. Given some of the bugs that have sprung up in the game post-launch, sure, some may wonder about the professional expertise of some of the people tinkering under the hood, but the long post I made above could be neatly summarized in something called a Flow Chart, which anyone who has actually taken a programming class should know of.

What you're basically proposing is that kill chains boost MF. Is it a possibility? Sure, especially since they also throw EXP at you for doing it. Thing is, you can't cherry pick drops when they do happen and claim with no actual evidence that such is how it is. In killing those 25 spiders, maybe that legendary dropped on the third, but you didn't notice until all 25 were dead. How many packs do you outright ignore between these drops? If want to prove a system like this exists, you literally have to document every kill, what drops what in the chain, and how big the chains get. Until then, you're functioning on something called Confirmation Bias.

Doing this is also the only benefit in comparing your kills to my own in further narrowing percentage ranges, as all it otherwise says is you played Diablo III more than me, not uncover some super secret loot algorithm. A few hundred hours at anything is nothing to scoff at, especially when seeking explanations of how something works from people predisposed to being analytical and a critical thinker. Plus there's the fact the concept of loot systems like this have been regurgitated over countless games over the years with slight deviation. Why? It works. It's simple. It's logical.

But there is something to bear in mind, that no computer is truly random. When entering the code domain, people need to understand that randomization is rooted in something called a seed. What this seed value is will vary per program/machine, but a common value is the current time broken down into seconds from a predetermined starting date. For example, from Dec 31 19:00:00 1969, 1349647287 seconds have passed since I started this sentence. Time is something constantly changing, which makes it a good seed value, but if you start understanding other aspects of a randomization routine, you can also begin to figure out the best times to actually get loot drops. So that's basically when you begin to layer the process and introduce offsets to help curb pattern recognition. Some methods even take advantage of multiple seed values, as another variable example being how many people could be online at a given moment.

Those interested in this type of thing would be better off learning more on how things like slot machines are made and the people who try to beat them, knowing when they're going to be 'hot' and pay out. This is also different than the assumption common in Gambler's Fallacy where a 1/10 chance means playing 10 times in a row will give you 1 win without fail. Rather, what those people do is literally identify the patterns to know that a win of certain quality would happen on the 234th, 753th, and so on pull.

For some legitimacy to come to the claim of kill streak MF, the following would need to be done:
1) Kill the same 25 mob types in the same zone with nothing in between without changing your MF/GF values.
2) Time the process of killing this group.
3) Document every single drop from 1 to 25 as they drop.
4) Repeat this process until you get 1000 kill pools that took the same exact amount of time.
5) Just because, video record every test.

Unfortunately, you're not going to find neatly packed clusters of the same single mob in any reliable frequency without others interfering. The presence of other mobs would introduce the possibility, that I outlined in my first post, that individual mobs could actually have different default MF values. I also emphasized the kill time because it's allegedly part of the equation. In analyzing this pool of data, we'd need to confirm that the 25th kill will almost always have higher loot potential than the 1st, 10th, or even 24th. While randomization prevents a 100% of the time outcome, I'd say anything short of a 90% superiority and accuracy debunks the claim.

As they say, the burden of proof is on you, and also why I threw up #5 since fudging numbers to favor your claim is pretty easy to do when just randomly posting.
@Siadosha

I would just like to withdraw my crack at you, because that type of post is exactly what we need on threads like this.

It's been too hard for me to directly recreate. The best method of recreation is by clearing trash around goblins, and using them as an example.

Which is what i chose to do.

In private games goblin loot seemed to be better when I used archon, either because of the difference in hits per second, or the rapid damage dealt. Loot comparisons varied, but I only get gem patterns when I archon a goblin, and I've gotten 3 now, no radiant patterns, but everything shy of it.

I have a breakdown of the few times i've gotten a 8 prop+ rare or legendary from goblins, and the method I used to kill them at the time.

I'm not ehre to try and prove this to anyone. I just feel as though i have enough evidence to ask Blizzard to consider what their system is doing.

I have wizard friends with shar-nado builds that do really low dps, and they are getting ripped out of exp, and loot because of their low damage contribution, when realistically, they are the only reason the group is able to literally tear through content continuously. While i'm unable to perfectly recreate scenarios with the exact same mob clustering, i do pay a good amount of attention to when items drop, and if i ever get a legendary from a pack of trash it's always from the last, or one of the last mobs killed. It is never from the first.

The way they built their bonus EXP system even implies a likeliness that their loot system was implemented using similar mechanics, as it wouldn't require more backend coding.

As for the random/seed conversation, thanks for putting elloquently what I have tried to say in many threads on here. I do understand how random integers are generated in code. I challenge you with your experience in D2 to apply it to D3 and share your results. From what I can tell, anything that increases bonus exp seems to increase legendary droprate, and item quality. I've done enough of my own testing and documenting to believe this is true.

What this all stems back to is kind of where i disagreed with your original post. There is alot of mystery, and alot of other factors that go into loot. Magic find has only a small role in determining loot, and I feel without them having explained any of what we discussed here oficcially, then they are misleading a -large- majority of people. Which wasn't an issue in the D2 days, but now they've established the RMAH they actually sell these items, there should be a burden of explaining what they are selling.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum