[Guide] Affix Based Itemization

Monk
11/03/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Vrkhyz
You're welcome, M. Question, though: if 36 min turns 100-200 into 136-236, how am I able to test white weapons by using my +25 min to turn a 9-11 weapon into a weapon that only deals 34 damage? Shouldn't it become 34-36? Maybe I'm talking about the wrong affix?


25 min and 9-11 -> 34-36
But that's not the behavior I see. Just did a full hour or so of testing this afternoon. With a 9–11 2H weapon and a +25 min-D affix, I did a consistent 34 damage, modified by DEX and the occasional critical. It never changed. URL here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004693486?page=2#31

It might be the case that the min-damage bug (assuming it's a bug) only comes into play in certain weapon configurations.
But that's not the behavior I see. Just did a full hour or so of testing this afternoon. With a 9–11 2H weapon and a +25 min-D affix, I did a consistent 34 damage, modified by DEX and the occasional critical. It never changed. URL here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004693486?page=2#31

It might be the case that the min-damage bug (assuming it's a bug) only comes into play in certain weapon configurations.

tested it myself too, that's really odd.
i just went off the auction house, since it treats min damage as average damage.
It's also probably related to the same bug(?) that makes it so that the xx-xx damage range modifier gives different results sometimes. I have two rings, one that's 29-60 and another that's 30-59 and the latter gives me something like 2k more DPS, despite the fact that the average damage based on the (Min+Max)/2 is exactly the same.
11/03/2012 06:39 PMPosted by Sorak
It's also probably related to the same bug(?) that makes it so that the xx-xx damage range modifier gives different results sometimes. I have two rings, one that's 29-60 and another that's 30-59 and the latter gives me something like 2k more DPS, despite the fact that the average damage based on the (Min+Max)/2 is exactly the same.

that's a different bug.

for example, if a ring rolls:
30-59 damage
+30 minimum physical damage

the inventory tooltip only shows 30-59 damage.
but in reality you have an extra enchantment that you can't see, but is still there.

basically your 30-59 ring has an enchantment that the game isn't telling you it has.
I'm a bit confused about +minimum damage from what you are saying.

In one of your posts you say +36 minimum dmg to 100-200 is 136-236, but you also say that +36 minimum dmg is +18 avg dmg.

136+236 = 372,
372/2 = 186 avg dmg, which indicates +36 avg dmg, not +18 avg dmg.

I'm guessing you meant to say that +36 minimum dmg results in 136-200.

I also read some where that when minimum damage exceeds maximum dmg, maximum damage gets bumped to +1 of what minimum dmg is. Also minimum dmg is applied before maximum dmg.

For Example,

Case 1:
You have a 7-40 weapon, and stick a +14 min dmg / +14 max dmg ruby.
applying minimum dmg first, you get 21-40,
since max > min, it stays 21-40,
then maximum dmg is applied, it becomes 21-54
The ruby added +14 min, +14 max

Case 2:
You have 7-10 weapon, and stick a +14 min dmg / +14 max dmg ruby.
applying minimum dmg first, you get 21-10,
since min > max, it now becomes 21-22,
then maximum dmg is applied, it becomes 21-36
The ruby added +14 min, +26 max

The Ruby says +14-28 dmg, It will always add +14 min, but can add anywhere from 14 to 28 max dmg.

Also this explains why the AH shows +minimum dmg as adding 32 average dmg. On a naked character, adding 32 minium dmg would make him do 32-0, but then since min >max, that gets bumped up to 32-33. The gain was 32.5 average dmg, but very misleading because our weapons usually have a large gap between minimum and maximum damage.
I'm a bit confused about +minimum damage from what you are saying.

In one of your posts you say +36 minimum dmg to 100-200 is 136-236, but you also say that +36 minimum dmg is +18 avg dmg.
that was my mistake, it's 100-200 and +36 min is 136-200, not 136-236

Also this explains why the AH shows +minimum dmg as adding 32 average dmg. On a naked character, adding 32 minium dmg would make him do 32-0, but then since min >max, that gets bumped up to 32-33. The gain was 32.5 average dmg, but very misleading because our weapons usually have a large gap between minimum and maximum damage.

I'm inclined to believe this is a bug.
if you look at min/max damage on weapons
+30 min and +30 max is equal to +30-60
Here's the link to what I read about min/max dmg.

http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/69250/what-are-the-precise-effects-of-rubies-in-weapons-why-do-the-tooltips-show-a-ra/69265#69265

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/uqap1/max_dps_perfect_rolls_for_every_weapon_type/c4xxrt1

It's from a few months ago, and blizzard has since changed the display of rubies, instead of +14-28 dmg, they show +14 min / 14 max when socketed. But I believe the effect when min > max still applies as I stated.
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Thanks for the links, M. I believe I'm very close to figuring this out conclusively--my earlier DW problems were a result of mistakenly averaging the APSs of the two weapons. Cliff's Notes version: rubies are different than min-max affixes, and the supposed "+1 to max damage when min and modifiers exceeds max" is almost certainly incorrect.

More later.
Great guide! Sticky requested.
Thanks for the links, M. I believe I'm very close to figuring this out conclusively--my earlier DW problems were a result of mistakenly averaging the APSs of the two weapons. Cliff's Notes version: rubies are different than min-max affixes, and the supposed "+1 to max damage when min and modifiers exceeds max" is almost certainly incorrect.

More later.

i think that min damage on jewelry is what is broken.
because min/max damage on weapons also works differently from jewelry.
Critical Hit Chance
Up to 10% Crit Chance is available on Amulets and Gloves
Up to 6% Crit Chance is available on Helmets, Rings, and Bracers
For thunderclap/cyclone builds, crit chance is slightly better than your paper doll indicates.
Because it both increases the damage per cyclone as well as the number of cyclones.

Maxed crit chance is generally essential to any end game monk build.


I know you covered shield below, but u missed it in this section. :)
Yep, I've definitely got a handle on this. I correctly calculated the in-game DPS armed with the following:
  • A 1.50 AS sword with +8% IAS on it and a star ruby (listed as "+17–34 Damage" when sitting in your inventory but as separate damage modifiers when socketed)
  • A 1.40 AS sword with +10% damage on it and a flawless square ruby ("+14–28 Damage")
  • A ring with +25 Minimum Damage and +7% IAS
  • A ring with +34 Maximum Damage

I also had the Enchantress below with her so-called 3% Focused Mind skill (which, for those who don't know, actually adds +0.03 to your weapon's attack speed after any +IAS the weapon has but before any +IAS on your armor). I just want to run one more test with my Echoing Fury just to make sure this is totally legit. Not that I really think you can "accidentally" calculate 18,928.82 ;-)
Yeah, I managed to decipher the Echoing Fury, too. I'm going to go back to one of my old posts for the full explanation so I don't clutter up this otherwise beautiful thread, so here are the relevant points.

Elemental damage doubles the DPS of my weapon, so that's a must have.
+50% damage 1.5x's the DPS of my weapon, so that's a must have

Elemental damage can double the DPS of a weapon, but the +X% damage multiplier applies only to the weapon's (unseen) base damage, +min and +max affixes on the weapon, and rubies. It does not affect elemental damage, which is added on top of those factors to produce the final damage range and DPS you see when you mouse over the weapon.

36 min physical turns 100-200 into 136-236

A +36 Minimum Damage affix does exactly what it says—it adds 36 to the minimum damage of the weapon, which translates to +18 unless the maximum damage is within 36 of the minimum damage (like using a +36 min. ring with a 9–11 white weapon). Forget everything you've ever read about D3 adding +1 to max. damage so it's always greater than min. damage—that is simply not true. A +X Minimum Damage affix on a weapon is subject to the weapon's +X% Damage affix if it has one; a +X Minimum Damage affix on a ring or amulet is not.

for example, if a ring rolls:
30-59 damage
+30 minimum physical damage

This is the only thing I can't test because I don't have such an item. I wouldn't even know I had it unless the calculations were incorrect. If anyone has one they can lend me for a quick test, or can write down their stats if they believe they have one, please let me know.
@ vrk
so basically you're planning to release a 100% accurate DPS calculator?
Yep, that's the plan. It's redundant with theasiangamer.com, I realize, but I saw a lot of Excel sheets on this forum last week, and I think the information will be useful to the players working on those files. The spreadsheet I'm currently working on is tilted toward my Thunderclap build, but I've actually put in some limited arrays and drop-down lists that allow you to choose a skill for each strike of the three-strike sequence. Screen shot here:

http://i.imgur.com/WNAjH.png

Column B is my current setup; column D would involve changes to multiple stats, so it's the column I use to test my paper DPS calculations, which appear in row 28. Columns F, H, J, L, N, and O allow you to measure changes in weapon damage, dexterity, attack speed, IAS, CHC, and CHD, respectively. The section below the change row shows your "true" DPS: single-target DPS, AOE DPS, Sweeping Wind, and Cyclone. The AOE and Cyclone damage changes with the number of targets and accounts for the proc rates and number of targets in range. The line at the bottom shows equivalencies between changes in various stats. In this case, the largest change would come from +1% IAS, which is equivalent to +16.5 DEX, +6.25 weapon damage, etc. Just a neat feature I thought I'd add. No Blazing Wrath, etc., yet, but I'll work on it.

Regarding the explanation of the calculations, I will likely crib some of the information I posted here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004443690#7

The post will come tomorrow afternoon during my lunch break or tomorrow night after work. Turns out I was having trouble with DW calculations because I was incorrectly averaging the attack speeds of the weapons like the game averages the weapons' damage. I figured out my error, though, and everything works beautifully now.

If you suspect you have one of these "hidden damage" rings or amulets, I'd love to look at the stats so I can figure out how they work.
oh please do me a favor and put it into google doc lol.
So much more accessible than downloading an excel spreadsheet

if you need help coding something feel free to ask.
Will do, although I have no experience with GDs aside from clicking links. If you can point me in the direction of some tips for working with them, that'd be great; if you can't, I'll . . . use Google to tell me how, I guess? ;-)
Well first of all, do you know javascript?

that would reduce the clutter on your sheet by a lot.

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