Disappointed with Nephalem Valor

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Even though no game designers would take direct feedback from posts like these, i also agree and bump to try to make them see the uselessness of the NV system in Monster power inferno runs
wtf i dont get it because you only want to play for 5-10mins you want to punish people who play game for longer periods NV is a reward not a right .Its like sayin i havent got the education to get a job thats pays a bonus so lets just take away everyones bonus

Also make every item in game drop as i dont have much time to farm

YOU SHOULD GET REWARDED FOR ACTUAL PLAYTIME AND EFFORT


Reward players for Playtime and effort does not equate necessarily with fun; it's more of an accomplishment emotion.
The NV system never brought any fun to anyone in D3... the fun came when you killed diablo on normal, and ultimately on inferno... All the rest is long boring grind, which is not fun at all. We can hope that the Devs will be able to make the PvP kinda fun, but sadly, it will most probably turn out in more flame wars and trashtalking... BLIZZARD! go chek games like Journey, where true cooperative play is actually sane, helpfull and FUN.
Agreed. It's just another anti-fun mechanic.
i don't think nv should be removed, but i think they should remove the NEED to have 5 valors
they should lower the bonus to like 15% and have it just as a mf/gf bonus rather than buffs that you need to have to get keys/drops
Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!

(Oh, and PS - I can't seem to find the post where this was asked, but since it's related, we are working to allow NV stacks to persist across Acts.)
I like Nephalem valor.
Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!
"5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well" Is that really one of your goals for this game? o wait this is subjective what do you mean by "well" If that is your goal, the please show effort of proving that, right now 5 to 10 minutes will get me like maybe a full bag of crap rares. Also are you just balancing the game around Plvl 100?
I like nv. but sometimes I feel the "guarenteed rare" is overriding drops that could potentially be legendaries. (as I most often find legendaries when I'm at 3-4 stacks). and I find tons of rares anyway (99.9% are vendor trash anyway)

I realize for lower paragon/mf players that the garenteed rare is a blessing as not much will drop with 0 mf anyway. but for players at the 200+ mf mark we find plenty of rares anyway

as I don't know the inner workings of the game its all just my theory. perhaps you could elaborate on if the gaurenteed rare can or cannot override the possibility of a legendary?


It shouldn't be overriding legendaries, because the guaranteed rare is an extra item added to what you normally would've gotten.

i.e., When you kill a pack that before 5NV that would normally drop 5 items, with 5NV it now drops 6 items. The 6th item being your guaranteed rare.
"5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well" Is that really one of your goals for this game? o wait this is subjective what do you mean by "well" If that is your goal, the please show effort of proving that, right now 5 to 10 minutes will get me like maybe a full bag of crap rares


I think you might have misunderstood. We're saying that's a goal we want to achieve, that it's an improvement we want to make to the game as it exists currently. :)

12/18/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Gunghoe
Also are you just balancing the game around Plvl 100?


No, not "just." We take a lot of different factors and play styles into consideration.
i hope you guys realise that the difference of legendary drop rate with 0 nv compared to 5 nv is actually quite small.
Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


I like nv. but sometimes I feel the "guarenteed rare" is overriding drops that could potentially be legendaries. (as I most often find legendaries when I'm at 3-4 stacks). and I find tons of rares anyway (99.9% are vendor trash anyway)

I realize for lower paragon/mf players that the garenteed rare is a blessing as not much will drop with 0 mf anyway. but for players at the 200+ mf mark we find plenty of rares anyway

as I don't know the inner workings of the game its all just my theory. perhaps you could elaborate on if the gaurenteed rare can or cannot override the possibility of a legendary?


The "guaranteed rare" actually increases your chance to find a legendary. Calling it a guaranteed rare is kind of misleading as it can be a rare or higher.

See this:

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/57939-magic-find-and-its-efficiency-a-statistical-insight

It has a lot of information about item drops.
Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!

How about restructuring the system so it provides 20% per stack for a max of four stacks or 25% per stack for a max of three stacks? The maximum bonus would still be 75% (-ish), stacks would be easier to rebuild after switching, and very short sessions will still be non-optimal. Tweak the drop rates somehow to make up for the loss of the guaranteed rare, and we'd have the same system, but nudged in a friendlier direction.
yeah but spending 2 hours doing a act 3 run and finding all crap isnt grindy at all.
Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


Funny, your core need of making short game sessions ineffective. Is that another one of JWs ideas of what he perceives the community thinks isnt fun? Because once again, that is wrong. I enjoy short play sessions and know many players who did so in Diablo 2. But due to efficiency I am forced to play longer sessions and full runs, despite those being boring in my eyes. Stop telling us whats fun.

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