Reflect Damage + Health Link: intended?

General Discussion
searched for it, but havnt found any answer

Is this a bug? Something they forgot? Or is it really working as intended?

Reflect damage. No problem

Health link. No problem

both as combination? Instant death.

Again? Is this "intended"? Or will they look in to that. Currently. its a really stupid combination.
What exactly is the problem with it? I don't get it.
The damage you do to enemies with health link is divided by the number of enemies, which seems also to be the case with life leach. With a very simple example, if you have 3% LL with 3 enemies you get only 1% back. But the reflect damage is doing full damage on your character. With other words, sometimes you kill your self almost with the first hit.

I consider this a rather silly combination which is not working as intended (in my eyes). Hence why I would like some clarification about it.
I never seen a difference to be honest.
Under 5k armor, under 400 AR, 130K dps and 6LS.
I see wizards and DHs with better defensive stats.

Seems reflect damage and health link is the perfect WW killer.
Under 5k armor, under 400 AR, 130K dps and 6LS.
I see wizards and DHs with better defensive stats.

Seems reflect damage and health link is the perfect WW killer.

ah right yeah. Throw out the "your gear is garbage" card. Works so well doesnt it?

This isnt about my gear or what ever. The question if the affix combination isnt more powerfull compared to others. Molten/Infected. No problem for example.

With rend and the LL I have I dont have to worry about anything on MP4/5. But the combination of health link and reflect damage might be something which was not intended.

There is just so much you can do without gear before you need 2 or 3 billion gold. And please, dont tell me now "get better stuff". Generic answers are not going to change anything because you could tell that to everyone. Its not like upgrades in those ranges are easy to obtain and I am not going to play like the rest of the 90% barbs out ther with dual wield.
I've noticed the same problem.
eh? This is not "whining" this is a simple question if the "combination" was intended or not.

What ever YOU think if it is right or not doesnt matter. - see the stance of the developers on enrage timers and invulernable minions.

I dont mind a difficuilt game. But like a sort of balance if possible. Make ALL affixes strong (like a combination of molten + infected + failer) so that you require the gear to overcome it but dont create strange situations which feel unatural.

I mean its rather strange when a certain difficulty is a cake walk and then, bam. Dead with almost one hit.

Again. Reflect damage is NOT the problem here! The issue is that health link only returns 1/3 of LL!

The damage you do to the monsters gets shared among them. Thats fine! But why dont we get the full LL back? Dont we hit them ALL after all?

This isnt the first affix that saw a few changes here and there simply because certain things have been either buged or not working like they wanted it to work.

this could be the same situation here. But I dont know it.
Yeah they hurt, but are not a huge deal.

Now succubus with molten + reflect damage + health link + fast.....forget about it.
heh yeah, the nice thing about molten is that from what I have read it depends on the inteligence of the enemy (suckubus and oculitist have high inteligence) and the damage it does also depends on the attack speed how it seems.
I think it's more of a playstyle error than your gear. WW generally is a low defense/high offense playstyle that relies on gaining your life back faster than it goes down. Health link and reflect both work against that. Ever more so when you relie on LS instead of LoH which two handing your sucked into. You have 1 sorta defensive passive and one defensive skill.

Try making your own build I promise you'll see better results.
Are you skipping or killing white trash? There are quite a few rend/HoTA styles that include RLTW if you still want to clear content with good move speed. My build I'm doing MP8 with few to no deaths and I can easily switch the rune on battle rage and OP for RLTW to clear lower MPs with near perma RLTW. You might even be able to drop one of the crit passives for a defensive one, 130k dps almost seems like overkill for mp5. And you might be healing less due to lower damage but it might balance out due to the decreased incoming damage but I personally haven't tried.
Love it, add mortar in there too :)
Isn't it a random combined affix? Yeah it sucks but it can be overcome.
of course it can be overcome, just has how you could deal with invulnerable minions.

The question is rather if it was intended to create such a strange affix combination. Again, the issue is not so much reflect damage which is doing its job rather well just like the other affixes where you need a way to counter it if you want to be effective. I am more complaining about the fact that only 1/3 of your LL works when you hit a mob with health link. Now add reflect damage to it ... I dont know it but I have my doubts that this was intentional. Because it feels like this combination is a lot harder compared to any other combination.
Health Link Reflects Damage Mortar Jailer

Don't build your Barb as a glass cannon with less than 5k armor, 400res all and only 33k hp vs the 135k dps and you won't have a problem.

In other words, PEBKAC
I have just concluded my tests on this matter and have discovered you are simply mistaking your observations. It is not happening according to evidence (took a few games to get this to spawn, Did this on mp1, so that it wouldn't be 0)

until I see better, you are simply mistaken

on HL mobs your damage is divided by the number of mobs, not multiplied, so you are doing less damage & the leech you get is for the primary target only, which has already been divided by remaining mobs

here are the numbers with screens for evidence

a 2-3 hand bow with +20 min amulet
naked shot
shots are for 408 non crit

mob health

mob health after being shot 1 target for 408
I am hit with 2 reflected

change to all mobs

evenly divided 408/3 = 136 each, nice and perfect no rounding needed

my stats
armor 4629 (1- 4620/(4629+3150)) = 40.6% incoming
physical Resistance 672 (1- 672/(672+315)) = 31.9%

(1- 672/(672+315))*(1- 4620/(4629+3150)) =
total incoming damage
= 12.96%

10% of 136 = 13.6
12.96% of that = 1.76 rounded up to 2 damage
amount of reflection hit me 2

in other words with my mitigation and 10% reflection values I take 1.296% of my own damage back ;

hypothesis you state in OP - you are being hit by the full value, conclusion
I would have been hit for 5.184
i was not.
I am being hit for the displayed values *.1 * .1296

and here is bola shot going off with normal weapons (dual wield 5.4% leech)

3759 * .01296 = 48.7
7450 *.01296 = 96.5
12025 *.01296 = 155.84

damage I am taking 155, 49 and 96

the 155.84 is creating 155 because 155*.054/5 = 1.674 life
so the 155.84 - 1.674 = 154.166 which is rounded back up to 155

you are only hurt and leech off the direct damage you do, never the link siphoning off to others. there is no "unfairness" where you are gimped on the amount of life you recuperate

summary: (TL:DR)
your topic is erroneous, false perception creating false conclusions
Don't build your Barb as a glass cannon with less than 5k armor, 400res all and only 33k hp vs the 135k dps and you won't have a problem.

In other words, PEBKAC

give me your credit card then and I wont and I will be top notch equipment which I think is not even the issue here because I dont see my equpment as bad as said its good enough to farm MP5 very efficiently.

I am playing the build I want not the build they tell me to play. I could go dual wield and never care about it anymore (lots of Loh and finish).

But I am a twohand build. DPS is what you need to survive. That simple. And it also works. Again. Reflect damage alone is NOT(!) the issue. The issue is that with health link only 1/3 or even less of your LL gets returned which in my eyes isnt how it should be.

until I see better, you are simply mistaken

then there is a problem with the reflect damage mechanic in general, as on very rare situations you die almost with the first hit but most of the time it never is a problem.

How comes that? This kind of inconsistency is rather strange and weird. I really would love them to take a look in to that. And before somone again mentions "gear".

Well it would not be first time they made mistakes either with damage, skills or what ever.

I am not complaining about difficulty but inconsitency. You can go trough the whole game, never worry about anything. And then just a few min later it feels like you are on MP7 or 8 ... thats kinda contra productive to the whole idea of difficulty levels and chosing the right one. I know that the randomness of the affixes plays a role in here as well some are worse then others. But This never bothers me usually. Again. Its just that in some situations you are loosing a lot of health or its very difficiuilt and you have no real feedback which makes it also hard to do a correct choice.
10/27/2012 12:34 PMPosted by nom
use your damn heads and overcome a problem rather than whining about it


Join the Conversation

Return to Forum