equipped item lock system

General Discussion
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Yeah, I'd totally go out of my way with a bunch of clicks to avoid a situation I've never encountered because I saw Internet People complaining about it. This is how I conduct my affairs in the year 2012. I believe things I see on the internet despite my personal experience.
Does it really matter? I meant the clicks to lock equipment that you're *certain* I would do.

But really, as long as I've successfully communicated my overall mocking disdain for you I'm fine if the details are fuzzy.
Not really *you* per se, no. Gonna have to hop off that horse. Sorry, I don't personally care about any single poster and unless you've got a WoW AV with garish text and frequently post I don't really differentiate between the various peoples making terrible, awkward arguments about Blizzard holding their hand to protect them from their own stupidity. I'd be just as mockingly dismissive to any other poster proposing the same dreck you are.
11/09/2012 03:43 PMPosted by whoopadeedoo
If you say so. You just pick my post to open your foray into this thread instead of the dozens of others (including the OP) saying the same thing.
Yes, when I chose to respond, I singled out YOU. Not "The last post in the thread which coincidentally had a fallacious argument that was easily mocked". The fact that you were literally advocating, on the BLIZZARD forums, that any persistent complaint MUST be addressed must NOT have factored into my decision to mock you.

It's all about YOU. Actually, if indeed this same stupidity persists across other threads, I may mock you in the future as well. Try not to take it personally.
11/09/2012 03:43 PMPosted by whoopadeedoo
Regardless, you're welcome to think the UI is not responsible for accidents despite the fact that it clearly is. I'm not going to debate you on this. I've learned the "accept what it is and don't be dumb" crowd can not be reasoned with.
You seriously can't protect people from themselves. No matter how cumbersome you make it, no matter how ludicrous it would seem for someone to make a terrible choice, they'll still do it. You can TRY and end up with a bunch of extraneous safeguards that will inconvenience players, but trust me in that SOME will still find a way to sell their hat. And they'll start complaining. Which, again by your impeccable logic that compelled me to post, will require Blizzard to make it even HARDER to sell things.

Perhaps with a 4-second delay when vendoring an item. Would that stop you from selling your gear?
Yesterday I almost sold my OH and have sold things that I add equipped a long time ago. A gear lock would be great!
Dear Jawn,
All you're doing with your posts are telling people who've experienced this issue how stupid and careless they were.
With great relish!
Blizz is a joke these days.

What an easy fix. I don't even like or play this game and this upsets me.
While I do think that an equipped item lock is a necessary improvement I think I'd rather see Blizzard implement an ignore poster button in the forums. Seems like the dislike and trolling buttons don't do a damned thing.

I find it most amazing that people take an idea that will have minimal (potentially NO) impact on them and turn it into a crusade. Since the worst of them are actually offering no reason why the idea is bad, or how it will negatively affect players, all I can assume is that these people are purely trolls. At which point the best solution is to ignore their posts. Sadly this only works if everyone ignores their posts.

Back on topic:
For a newcomer here is a short summary of the issue and the (real) arguments for and against.

Issue:
Because the right click button is used for three functions; equip, identify and sell, it is possible to unintentionally swap an item and sell a good item. This happens because the user attempts to ID an item that has already been IDed and instead the item gets equipped. The user fails to notice this change and vendors items in their inventory. The buyback button sometimes helps, but usually the player starts a new game or logs off, at which point their good item is lost permanently.

While this is the users fault it happens often because of the frequency we are required to ID items, which in turn are usually low quality and therefore vendored almost immediately. This situation is worsened in multiplayer as there is often a push to "rush" through the game as quickly as possible. The situation is particularly damaging to players because items now have a real cash value - people may have paid $250 on the RMAH for the item they've vendored for 2,000 gold.

For:
1. Reduces chance of accidentally selling stuff we don't want to sell.

Against:
2. Might make the process of selling or swapping gear to be slower/harder than it is now.

They're really the only two valid arguments. So what really needs to be discussed are ways these two issues can be addressed.


Now ultimately you can never completely stop accidents, the best you can hope for is to minimize them. A good design goal would be to minimize the accidents without creating other inconveniences to the users. In addition, a valid design goal would be to produce an effective solution that doesn't require a lot of resources to implement (although from a consumers point that is a lesser concern).

So possible solutions:

1. Gear lock button

Pros: Reasonably effective. While it's "locked" gear can't be swapped. Simple to understand. Can be put on paperdoll with a tooltip so it's immediately obvious. Minimal impact on users (ie: it can be left off and the game functions exactly as it does now). Should be relatively low amount of coding/design to implement.

Cons: Still possible to forget to lock it, so gear can still be unintenionally swapped and sold using right click.

2. Allow user binding of equip button/key

Pros: Very effective. By letting a user bind a different key for equip and sell/ID the user can no longer unintentionally swap an item when they intend to ID it. Minimal impact to users (can leave the buttons bound as they are now if they choose).

Cons: More complicated to code/design than first option.

3. Change the Equip Item permanently to Shift-Right Click (or some other button/combo)

Pros: Very effective. No chance of unintentionally equipping an item instead of IDing it. Easier to code than second option.

Cons: Changes current user experience for all users. Would require retraining of which button is used to equip items. Could result in a slower/more clumsy experience swapping items depending on the key combo used.

4. Remove equip button (drag to equip)

Pros: Very effective. No chance of unintentionally equipping an item instead of IDing it. Should be relatively easy to code.

Cons: Very intrusive. Changes current user experience for all users. Would definitely result in a slower more frustrating experience when changing gear, particularly during combat.

5. Identify All button

Pros: Moderately effective. Reduces chance of accidental equipping since the problem primarily occurs while IDing lots of items quickly. Provides users with another benefit (quicker IDing). Should be relatively low amount of coding. Easy to understand (button added to paper doll with a tooltip).

Cons: Changes game design goals (ie: Blizzard like the idea of a player spending time IDing each item). If right click to ID is not removed then users can still potentially experience the problem.

6. Warning popup (on gear swap)

Pros: Very effective. Should eliminate accidental gear swaps because the user will be notifed that they've swapped gear. Easy to understand. Relatively easy to code.

Cons: Very intrusive. Changes experience for all users. Makes it much slower to change gear, especially in combat.

7. Warning popup (on gear sale)

Pros: Easy to understand. Relatively easy to code.

Cons: Very, very intrusive, since gear selling is much more common than gear swapping for most users. Very low effectiveness - it is still possible to swap items using right click so an unintentional item swap is not prevented at all. In addition most users would blindly "clickthru" the popup when selling anyway.

8. Temporary Stash

This idea needs a little more explanation. Create an new stash where users can drop an unlimited (or at least very large) amount of items (possibly only unIDed items) while playing. However when they logout of the game any items in the temporary stash are lost. The idea being players can concentrate on the monster killing and quest completing and only worry about IDing items at the end of their session when they (hopefully) aren't in a rush.

Pros: Players can focus on the game (especially in multiplayer) rather than rushing to ID and sell items quickly. Very little impact on players.

Cons: Very large amount of coding. Probably against Blizzards design goals. Only low to moderate chance of reducing unintentional gear swapping. Crash/Disconnect means items in temp stash are lost, as does forgetting to empty it before logging out.

9. Change buyback

Again this requires some explanation. The vendor buyback tab could be changed to become persistant, ie: when you logout the items are saved so next time you login you can still buy them back. Potentially the amount of items to buyback could be increased and a search function, or back/forward buttons added to make it possible to page through the buyback list and find the item you wanted. There would need to be a limit on how many items and how long they're retained.

Pros: Moderately effective. While players can still unintentionally swap an item they should have a much better chance of buying it back. Very little impact on players.

Cons: Much more coding involved. Creates design issues, eg: players using the buyback as a sort of "extra stash". Depending on how buyback is limited players could still sell an item and be unable to buy it back. More server side storage required.

10. Bind to account/Specific item lock

Another one needing explanation. The UI is changed to allow a player to flag specific items so they're not droppable/sellable/tradeable. The setting could a be a toggle so once the player does want to get rid of an item they can set it back to normal and get rid of it. There'd be a popup along the lines of "This item is bound. You cannot sell/drop/trade it until it's unbound."

Pros: Very, very effective. While it would still be possible to unintentionally swap an item while IDing it would be impossible to actually dispose of a flagged item. Very little impact on users, it would only affect people who actually chose to bind items.

Cons: Quite a lot of coding/design work. More server side storage required (though not as much as option 9).

I'm sure there are more potential solutions to the problem. Be good to see some posted, and if there are other pros/cons with any of the suggestions I've made I'd love to see them.
^Carnacki, your post is very informative. CMs, please pass his message along to the developers.

80% of the replies on this thread are for an item lock change. Given that it is near impossible to obtain a 100% consensus, a significant majority should prove the case for implementing an item lock.

For the rest, do indulge me by answering a few simple questions. Do you agree that:

1. a good number of players have misvendored their equipped gear, either through carelessness or a less than intuitive UI?
2. more players will continue to lose their precious gear in this manner, if no change is effected in the way items are IDed/vendored/gear swapped?
3. it is possible that you too might one day lose your equipped gear in a moment of poor focus, despite how particular you are in your usual gear checks in town?
4. an item lock function will reduce the incidence of losing gear in this manner?
5. should an item lock feature be implemented, you will utilise it as well?

Bonus question: Do you take pleasure in forum arguments, especially if you structure logical and witty retorts that blow your opponents out of the water?

If you answer "Yes" to the above questions (especially number 5), you are likely to be arguing for the sake of doing so, or a forum troll. There are more productive ways to boost one's self confidence/esteem, like inventing a cure for cancer or getting a hot girlfriend. If you feel that being a forum hero is your destiny, then may I recommend the other threads where you can level up:

"Barblo 3: Barbas are OP I hate Jay"
"RMAH are for sissies; I'm a real man"
"Rate the perky @ss of the female DH above you"
"I have 20k dps, MP 10 is so easy trolololol"


Thank you.

Every single reason given for why this feature should be implemented is based on the player being in the wrong from the very beginning.

Take it all the way to the root of the problem.
- Because the user right clicked an already identified item.

If that never happened the entire scenario of "accidentally" selling an item would never come up.


So you have a functioning car, and an accident occurs because the driver lost control and steered into a bush. True? Not the car's fault by a mile; the driver was careless/sleepy. But does that mean you use that argument and hence justify not putting in the ABS or air bags? That the driver was in the wrong, hence he does not deserve safety features? Remember that humans are not infallible.

In the case of D3's UI, the steering wheel also happened to be the brake, the gear shift and the steering control under different scenarios. That will just perpetuate the problem.
At a certain point, players need to be responsible for their actions. Gear doesn't vendor automatically, you have to click on it for it to go. So take a second and review what you're doing. And if you don't want to, accept that it's your own fault and stop whining about it like a child.

This example does nothing to support the argument.

This example is comparing a person losing physical/mental control over their body to a person that is intentionally pressing a button while hovering over the incorrect item, all the while being in perfect physical/mental control of their body.


I'm sorry, but it does everything to support the argument.

In driving or IDing items, you don't actually lose control over your faculties. Ever experience those long stretches of roads that go on forever? You still drive, but your mind loses focus, and you switch to a subconscious state of motor memory where you execute the motions without active thought. Same goes for IDing, where the list of rares to be identified can go on for 20, 30 or even 100s of them in long runs. You just ID the items like a reflex action; it's very easy to misclick on an identified item and swap it out without you realising it.

No one, neither in driving or IDing items, is "intentionally pressing a button while hovering over the incorrect item, all the while being in perfect physical/mental control of their body." I'm not sure how you even arrived at that.
11/09/2012 10:17 PMPosted by Afrofrycook
At a certain point, players need to be responsible for their actions. Gear doesn't vendor automatically, you have to click on it for it to go. So take a second and review what you're doing. And if you don't want to, accept that it's your own fault and stop whining about it like a child.


It's not about responsibility, or whining. It's about an improvement, a simple one that can prevent a catastrophic loss. Why have two pilots on a plane? Why have safety trigger locks on guns? Why do blades have scabbard sheaths?

If you can implement a simple feature/workflow to prevent accidents, why not?

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