Corpse spiders: Best single target attack?

Witch Doctor
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you want to see something cool? you already killed him with RoT, im guessing you can't kill with AC as you will run OOM, just alternate them back and forth and watch how much more dmg you can do alternating those 2 skills compared to using them by themselves.
11/13/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Jasonator
it is a very simple test, the best real world dps test is to simply go kill ghom and time it.


OK this was a really good idea, so I fired up MP0, equipped my LoH weapon, and did some timings. They were a bit different from what I was seeing in the DPS meter (cool!). Blazing did well but not nearly as well as the DPS meter lead me to believe it would. I wonder if it changes based on who you are fighting?

(multiple numbers indicate multiple tries)
  • Flaming Darts ....... 34s
  • Splinters .............. 31s
  • Blazing ................ 27s, 26s
  • Well of Souls ........ 18s, 22s, 18s
  • Plague Bats ...........24s, 27s
  • Corpse Bomb* ...... 20s, 24s
  • Dire Bats .............. 33s
  • Cloud of Bats ........ 15s
  • Fire Pit ................. 43s
  • Rain of Toads ........32s
  • Bears ................... 11s


*ran low on mana after he was mostly dead


lol nice cloud of bats only 4 seconds slower than bears! i never tried that one on ghom.

thats such a great tank skill if you can stand there and use it
did you happen to make a note of how much life he had for each run?

that would give us specific dps numbers. thanks for the info.
did you happen to make a note of how much life he had for each run?

that would give us specific dps numbers. thanks for the info.


it is not really necessary, it is a relative comparison between skills. Ghom has 8M hp in inferno. but Jason has a different dps than anyone else so everyone will be different.

the main thing to note is things like that WoS is almost half the dmg of bears, Dire Bats are pathetic at 1/3 the dmg of bears and desperatly need their cast rate improved. and blazing spiders are not as close to the dmg that the thread was hoping to indicate...
it is not really necessary, it is a relative comparison between skills. Ghom has 8M hp in inferno. but Jason has a different dps than anyone else so everyone will be different.

the main thing to note is things like that WoS is almost half the dmg of bears, Dire Bats are pathetic at 1/3 the dmg of bears and desperatly need their cast rate improved. and blazing spiders are not as close to the dmg that the thread was hoping to indicate...


it isn't necessary, but it would give an indication of how much of a % increase each skill does from posted dps. the timing of each kill is completely arbitrary, but if we had those figures someone with 115k dps could say "i'll actually be doing 230k dps"

bears only do that single-target damage if all 3 bears hit consistently. i know, i know, if you get up against a wall that's easy. but how often is an elite just hanging out in one place, and how often are you able to spam bears interrupted? definitely not on high mp levels.

(multiple numbers indicate multiple tries)
  • Flaming Darts ....... 34s
  • Splinters .............. 31s
  • Blazing ................ 27s, 26s
  • Well of Souls ........ 18s, 22s, 18s
  • Plague Bats ...........24s, 27s
  • Corpse Bomb* ...... 20s, 24s
  • Dire Bats .............. 33s
  • Cloud of Bats ........ 15s
  • Fire Pit ................. 43s
  • Rain of Toads ........32s
  • Bears ................... 11s


*ran low on mana after he was mostly dead


Oh, I LOVE tests like this. Thanks for the effort!

It is still amazing that Blazing kills faster than Splinter.

A few notes:

1. I am still curious about Hungry Bats for ST damage. More than Dire Bat's potential.

2. Did you direct all 4 souls to hit Ghom? One thing that can still help WoS is that SB can boost its damage higher while both Bats and Bear only have -mana.

3. It doesn't surprise me that Bear kills that quick 'cause Ghom has a big body and 3 bears should easily hit at that range. I am a bit surprised by CoB however. But then again, my problem with CoB is its range.
it is not really necessary, it is a relative comparison between skills. Ghom has 8M hp in inferno. but Jason has a different dps than anyone else so everyone will be different.

the main thing to note is things like that WoS is almost half the dmg of bears, Dire Bats are pathetic at 1/3 the dmg of bears and desperatly need their cast rate improved. and blazing spiders are not as close to the dmg that the thread was hoping to indicate...


it isn't necessary, but it would give an indication of how much of a % increase each skill does from posted dps. the timing of each kill is completely arbitrary, but if we had those figures someone with 115k dps could say "i'll actually be doing 230k dps"

bears only do that single-target damage if all 3 bears hit consistently. i know, i know, if you get up against a wall that's easy. but how often is an elite just hanging out in one place, and how often are you able to spam bears interrupted? definitely not on high mp levels.


Nah, I didn't feel like messing with the calculations. You're right, every skill should have an asterisk next to it based on various caveats (Cloud of Bats, for instance). Bears is awesome regardless though, and I think it's wise to bring it along for uber fights even if you can't use it 100% of the time.

Corpse Bomb shows promise, if you bring along some significant mana regen stuff. Full mana gear + Honored Guest + Corpse Bomb might be worth trying. The AoE would help with the minions. The only real advantage over Bears would be the distance though, and you lose Jaunt's ability to help you res people.

For now I think WoS + Bears is still the way to go.
Oh and yes, Corpse Bomb SURPRISES me the most I have to say.
11/14/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Jibikao
2. Did you direct all 4 souls to hit Ghom? One thing that can still help WoS is that SB can boost its damage higher while both Bats and Bear only have -mana.

I did my best. Ghom likes to get right up in your face. Most of the time I think they were all hitting.

3. It doesn't surprise me that Bear kills that quick 'cause Ghom has a big body and 3 bears should easily hit at that range. I am a bit surprised by CoB however. But then again, my problem with CoB is its range.

That, plus I had them all going single-file somehow (was standing with my back against a pillar).
Ghom also summons 2-3 of those slimes.. which will distract the other 3 souls.

But overall, it's nice to see that WoS is still the best at long range. Maybe a fast Spirit is Willing is better in that situation.

I thought Splinter was stronger.. man, even Rain of Toad matches it.

I am curious about Hungry Bats because if it can't even beat Plague against ST, then this rune has like no purpose. It is not a true homing (you need to click a target or one of the bats won't hit), it has somehow short distance and it's a channel.

I expect Hungry Bats to match WoS. If not, then Bats need more help IMO.
Wrong post
Now I'm interested.

I will go kill Ghom on MP0 with various skills and make a spreadsheet.

I may even combine DoTs + main attack.
Now I'm interested.

I will go kill Ghom on MP0 with various skills and make a spreadsheet.

I may even combine DoTs + main attack.


Awesome!

Yes, it is important to know skill combinations because some skills like WoS fit well with another DoT since SB doesn't cost as much as Bear.

And Blazing Spider can definitely afford PtV and another DoT.
11/14/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Jibikao
And Blazing Spider can definitely afford PtV and another DoT.


that, for me, is what puts it over the edge. blazing spiders shouldn't be used as a skill for hitting your hardest, in my opinion. i use them only in really long battles when i start to worry about going oom. if you did that with SB and RoE, you'd get to the point where you're spamming it, which drives your mana regen way up, but you're still spending 108 mana per cast, so you barely refill. can't beat a skill that competes with the secondaries for damage dealt and costs 100 less mana.
Best single target attack?

I run with SB - Spirit is Willing. It's basically free if you use BR....

The skill costs 108 mana.. But then you -16 from the BR = 92, +44 mana back on hit = 48 mana + 45 MPS... The spell costs 3 mana roughly, depending on attacks per second.
Best single target attack?

I run with SB - Spirit is Willing. It's basically free if you use BR....

The skill costs 108 mana.. But then you -16 from the BR = 92, +44 mana back on hit = 48 mana + 45 MPS... The spell costs 3 mana roughly, depending on attacks per second.


WoS is equally spammable with the right gear. In theory you could ditch all your mana gear and focus on DPS, then use SiW instead of WoS, but WoS does 85% more damage than SiW. That's a lot of DPS loss to make up for.
Bears crush sb so bad, just stand near wall so you can focus all of them on one target. For high end wd it isn't a problem to even melee high mp bosses, and survive thanks to life leech. Bears deal far more damage than spirit barrage, not to mention they area aoe, and you can hit two bosses at same time.
It is even more important during elite fights, where you hit entire pack, spirit barrage becoems exponentially worse, the more targets we have to deal with (and champions is minimum 3).

I understand people who would love to find something new, but when it comes to damage, bears just demolish every other wd skill, nothing is even close, unfortunately. And no range or autotergetting is going to solve that problem, in the end, high end wd just goes melee vs boss and streams 700%+ damage bears dealing significantly more damage than anything else.
@Sun Tzu

WoS in inferior in all regards to bears and should never be used if you are attempting to maximize your dps- save for pvp down the line when you may need that 40 yard utility.

The piercing opportunity of bears will always provide for a benefit over WoS, even in an uber fight with as little as 2 targets. With proper positioning, even on skinny targets, bears will always come out on top.

There are no relevant skinny single target encounters without adds unfortunately that justify ever using WoS to load up full nv stacks.
I'm surprised no one is factoring in mana cost to their evaluation of these skills. Certainly, Well of Souls can out-damage Corpse Spiders. Considering it costs over 21 times as much mana, it had better.
Do you guys feel SB still needs a bit more damage?

It costs 108 which is more than Firebats now.

SB is only very spammable with Rush of Essence and Blood Ritual for most WDs.

I've been using WoS for a long time. I feel the damage is decent but it is Bear's damage that seems "out of line" if you ask me. 236%, pierce and can hit up to 3 times on a target. Hitting two times for 472% isn't hard on most targets.

I just wish WoS is a bit better on aoe. Maybe they can increase extra soul's damage to 85%-100%?

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