Molten Impact VS Liquefy

Wizard
Prev 1 2 3 8 Next
You're like a dog with a bone....

You can ony use so much AP btw..... any extra returned after a full bar is useless.
What the fuk is that supposed to mean. Do complete maths or s t f u

What account for me casting about half molten as liqufy...
As for proc scalar I dont get anywhere near your numbers either though, I have liquify being much better than you do in this department.

Against single targets 50% crit...

Molten impact = 0.125 * 7 * 1 = 0.875
Liquify = 0.10625 * 7 * 1 + ( 0.10625 * 0.50 * 10 * 1 ) = 1.275

Liquify wins by a decent amount (46%)

Against two targets 50% crit...

Molten impact = 0.125 * 7 * 2 = 1.750
Liquify = 0.10625 * 7 * 2 + ( 0.10625 * 0.75 * 10 * 2 ) = 3.08125

Liquify wins by alot (76%)

Against three targets 50% crit...

Molten impact = 0.125 * 7 * 3 = 2.625
Liquify = 0.10625 * 7 * 3 + ( 0.10625 * 0.875 * 10 * 3 ) = 5.02

Liquify wins by a mile (91.25%)

So if you are trying to run CM/WW at EXTREMLY high gearing without wicked wind at all using liquify as your engine for CM procs...Go for it.

If you are looking to do a twister fueled meteor build, liquify isn't even close. Twisters give you an abundance of AP. The only limitting factor is attack speed, and molten impact provides a full 15-50% increase in damage per attack turn based on number of targets, length of battle, and critical hit chance.
Please do AP return on that too Shand with 20 apoc and 50% CC.

Then add that extra AP to how many more liquifies you can cast.

I think the math will trounce molten,

I see it in game but dont know how to do equations


If your only 50%cc and 20 APoC you shouldn't be doing meteor builds. This is 30 APoC or go home territory here.

Raw SNS will out-farm liquify in that case. At 50% crit your shocking aspect twisters deal 330.75% damage per attack turn, while liquify will deal only a very small amount higher. There is practically no reason whatsoever to give up teleport for less than 10% more real dps and a MUCH more complicated spec.
Alright enough BS. I make 2 video and prove Liquefy beat molten. I seen it enough in game if I'm only able to cast half the moltens as liquifies liquify wins or I wouldnt use it.

Another thing is i do 1200% dps with liquify and only 780% with SNS. Why would I use SNS exclusively?
11/15/2012 01:27 AMPosted by Aimless
Alright enough BS. I make 2 video and prove Liquefy beat molten. I seen it enough in game if I'm only able to cast half the moltens as liquifies liquify wins or I wouldnt use it.


Make sure if you are doing timed tests between MI and Li that you also do normal SNS vs Li as well cause I'm pretty sure (extremely hard to quantify with math however), that the 10% dps you gain from casting liquify instead of wicked wind you will lose due to the lower procs of CM and loss of diamond shards and EB casts.

11/15/2012 01:27 AMPosted by Aimless
Another thing is i do 1200% dps with liquify and only 780% with SNS. Why would I use SNS exclusively?


Then my math is missing something. I'd love to see those vids. If thats the case in game I'll have to go back to drawing board. Cause for me if feels more like 8.6x for SNS, then 9.5x tops for liquify (at the loss of teleport, which completely erases that dps in my book)
Shand your SNS multiler is higher cuz your CD is higher. We went though this already in my "shocking aspect nerfed huge" thread. Remember I had a CD wand and was getting 8.5 but when I lost all my CD with a IAS wand i only got like 7.5.

It's gone up since cuz I added a little CD.

And yeah it's gonna be a tough test on these meets. cuz I have to find 3 elites alone, twice, and keep well from going dry with both while still spamming as much as possible with both. DPS is the ez part. just start stop watch while recording their HP loss.
Shand your SNS multiler is higher cuz your CD is higher. We went though this already in my "shocking aspect nerfed huge" thread. Remember I had a CD wand and was getting 8.5 but when I lost all my CD with a IAS wand i only got like 7.5.

It's gone up since cuz I added a little CD.


Sure, it seems IAS inflates dps a little, so you need 'real dps' in terms of int and CD in order to balance it out for a higher multiplier. Thats fine...

Your liquify multiplier is 50% higher than your SNS though. While mine is 10-15% higher only. Thats a huge disconnect. I really am curious to discover the mechanism thats causing that.
11/15/2012 01:18 AMPosted by Aimless
What the fuk is that supposed to mean. Do complete maths or s t f u


Harsh lol
nm
nvm
have u guys taken into account that liquify pools stack dmg (i presume they do)?

in that case it seems quite obvious intuitively that liquify is better than molten in longer battles even with ww as the driving engine for procs both for more proc'ing (arguably useless when u use ww as it just procs better, and i think in dmg). Remember that meteors take a huge chunk of ur attack turns which in turns limit the number of ww u can push out, which in turn limits ur apoc return and then consequently, the amount of meteors u can throw out reliably

i havent done the maths, just noting how it feels.. it does seem liquify is smoother (and thus more dmg after a certain time period) even with ww as the driving force. I guess the breaking point of which is better depends on the mp and cc ur running (along with ias as well).. if u can one shot stuff with molten at lower mps though, molten seems the obvious choice.. for longer battles though, i feel liquify is the better choice (at least on my high cc, relatively low AS)
As long as you can't spam Molten, then Liquefy

When Liquefy impacts a group of mob, as long as it deals critical to anyone of the mob, it will last for 8 seconds, kinda must have 8 seconds impact and the dot stacks. After 5-10 impacts, you'll get a good damage figure solely from the dot.
11/15/2012 01:55 AMPosted by Aphraell
What the fuk is that supposed to mean. Do complete maths or s t f u


Harsh lol


11/15/2012 02:09 AMPosted by Aimless
nm


11/15/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Shandlar
nvm


I wonder what they all said before the edits!
Comet is good as well. It deals damage less then Molten but it creates mist which can trigger cold-blooded passive. Whatever I spam ET or next Comet impact or the post-impact mist, the damage will be 20% more.

Working quite good with cold-blooded passive. It's good as I can't spam Meteor and I have to use ET to get extra APOC.
double post
As long as you can't spam Molten, then Liquefy

When Liquefy impacts a group of mob, as long as it deals critical to anyone of the mob, it will last for 8 seconds, kinda must have 8 seconds impact and the dot stacks. After 5-10 impacts, you'll get a good damage figure solely from the dot.


Thats the right question. My supposition is that the limitting factor in the MI variant should be attack turns, not AP. If you are starved for AP and dont get many MI meteors and want to use liquify instead to get more meteors....your wasting your time. The dps increase without getting a full 3x MI a second isn't enough to justify giving up teleport and the movement speed associated with wormhole.

So its 55cc and 30 APoC at 2.73+ aps (for 6 tick WW and higher APoC return) or else you need some -ap meteor or else you should just use SNS. Liquify may never be the right choice. I'm going to have to put some time into testing this when I get home in a couple hours.
have u guys taken into account that liquify pools stack dmg (i presume they do)?

in that case it seems quite obvious intuitively that liquify is better than molten in longer battles even with ww as the driving engine for procs both for more proc'ing (arguably useless when u use ww as it just procs better, and i think in dmg). Remember that meteors take a huge chunk of ur attack turns which in turns limit the number of ww u can push out, which in turn limits ur apoc return and then consequently, the amount of meteors u can throw out reliably

i havent done the maths, just noting how it feels.. it does seem liquify is smoother (and thus more dmg after a certain time period) even with ww as the driving force. I guess the breaking point of which is better depends on the mp and cc ur running (along with ias as well).. if u can one shot stuff with molten at lower mps though, molten seems the obvious choice.. for longer battles though, i feel liquify is the better choice (at least on my high cc, relatively low AS)


Molten is for ppl playing one move chess on three move game. Sure it looks good up front. But you cant spam near the meteors. I'll prove this tomorrow.

Im too fukin mad right now after being called a dog need to take my pills and go to bed.
Do you have the gear to run high end molten to prove?

Mainly high CC 65+

Yay look at 3rd post in wizard forums!

Yay look at 3rd post in wizard forums!


Success!

Do you have the gear to run high end molten to prove?

Mainly high CC 65+


It was my intent to test as is.

3.01aps and 20 APoC at 57cc with liquify

vs

3.01aps and 20 APoC at 57cc with SNS

vs

2.81aps and 30 APoC at 60cc with Molten

While not 100% fair tests they will at least give us some sort of ballpark. I'll get exact numbers single target vs siegebreaker (can't move around like gohm so freeze strength wont interfere). This will bias against liquify a bit, but it will give us a base number to start with.

I'll then do some fields of slaughter runs to see what it feels like.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum