killing myself on reflect damage

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Please just admit it. Say, "I want to be able to faceroll reflect as a glass cannon and never have a chance of dying."

Just say it.

Every time I down a reflect pack on my DH I feel satisfaction. Ill admit. When I see them I say "Fuuuuuuuuuuuudge. I gotta farm slower. (from a solo point of view. I burst the crap outa them in MP team games.) But when I down them it brings a smile to my face. Because I know how to defeat them with a build I can use for the whole game through every act.

LOOOOOOOOOOL at glass cannon never dying JUST because RD is not there anymore. Fast? Extra fast(fast mob with fast affix on top of that)? Tele? Vortex? Waller in tight spaces?

Then there are spears, fireballs, and other ranged crap that will kill you the instant you make a mistake.

Yes, it will be a breeze without RD, just you watch it!
My problem is not necessarily the RD but when RD is combined with Electrified. Both only deal dmg on hit but when they combine is when my health just drops.

As a suggestion I would make it so those 2 affixes can not be on the same eilite pack and see how RD does on its own from there.

incase your wondering I see this combo alot maybe just bad luck for me maybe, but next time you die to a RD mob check to see if it has Electified aswell. most of my death's have come from this COMBO
My only sustain right now is 5.8 LS and my life goes back up super fast even when fighting RD mobs alone.

That said, I do have 7k armor with 700 + res all.


I mathed this earlier in another thread but

7k armor = ~70.0% reduction
700 resist all = the same

Reflect sends 10% of the damage back to you so you take .3 * .3 * .1 of your damage or you take .9% of your damage dealt. Divide that by 20% to get the life leech you need to resist that damage and you get 4.5% leech needed.

So it seems the math still checks out right now anyways.
That is the problem here. Some rediculously geared players makes a youtube video steamrolling the content an Blizzard eithers nerfs a build into the ground or buffs an idiotic affix. Players who invest the time and or money into godly gearing a toon should have ever right to steamroll the content as they geared and built for it.

But those with under 10k elite kills or maybe 100 hours in the game get butthurt they cant do what those who spent 1k plus hours do. So they applaud the only affix they see as an equalizer. That way they can feel special for,having garbage gear and an tossed together low dps build. WTG Bliz so either we play a barb or do crap for damage so lazy horrible players can pat themselves on the back for surviving RD encounters after taking ten minutes to kill to kill a pack. well done.
Just because one skill is named "Glass Cannon" doesnt mean you have to take it literally and not be able to build zero defense and give defense absolutely ZERO meaning in the grand scope of things.

What you are asking for is to ensure that every build at endgame and endskill is pure glass cannon with zero defense.

Always over a screen away from your team behind them using the top and bottom corners of your screen to corner mobs while never, ever, ever dying.

You are asking to kill defense absolutely.

Its not required. Stop attacking. Heal. Get more antidamage and hp. Or just get more HP and use the flat % hp insta heal in combo with health globes and pauses in dps. OR USE A DAMN LEACHBOW and heal. There are many options. You just aren't appeased by any of them and find them gross.

Either way I dont care. You can cry till it gets a toggle then you can spamtard burst refelct. Or you can learn and stop crying. Either way im just farming every once in a while to gear up for pvp and dont really care.

If they do make reflect toggle I hope your ready for it to be 1-2 seconds of dps on with 5-10 seconds of dps off toggle and some quick little trick ON OFF bursts in between. At least then it will still have ssome threat and you literal glass cannons will have zero excuse to cry. There is a chance to burst it if you have enough skill this way right?

And that's why round and round it goes.

You haven't answered why there should be only one way to gear. Defensive stats will always be desirable. Why should they be required?
The issues for 1.05 are this:
1. The community sucks. Nobody wants to use any strategy or alternate gear. D3 = "Full speed ahead" and "my playstyle should finish the game and beat everything!"


so we should all subscribe to YOURS instead? get the !@#$ out.

how about this: RD is removed and you get to keep playing the same way, and I get to play how I want to.

gee that sounds a lot better. seriously what the !@#$ is your problem? why do you feel everyone has to play how you want them to? if RD is not a problem for you, what should you care whether or not it is in the game? oh right because you want to !@#$ on how other people play.
11/02/2012 02:50 PMPosted by Dirtpoor
Yet when it comes to using this ingenuity to conquer the hurdles ahead of them people instead want to make it so the highest damage, squishiest build can spamtard through the whole game, every single champ pack.


The dev team stated that and that's their philosophy about the game. Any meta complaints are true whines.
The only thing to "change" about Reflects is the notification method. Have a red target aura on the feet of elites with RD.

That's all that needs to happen. It's fine the way it is.


You have your opinion and I have mine.

You haven't really tried to explain yours.

No wonder why Blizzard may ignore it.
My only sustain right now is 5.8 LS and my life goes back up super fast even when fighting RD mobs alone.

That said, I do have 7k armor with 700 + res all.


I mathed this earlier in another thread but

7k armor = ~70.0% reduction
700 resist all = the same

Reflect sends 10% of the damage back to you so you take .3 * .3 * .1 of your damage or you take .9% of your damage dealt. Divide that by 20% to get the life leech you need to resist that damage and you get 4.5% leech needed.

So it seems the math still checks out right now anyways.

Looks good. So I have to gear my DH as a heavy tank to counter RD through gear alone.
Couple of follow ups:

- Hydra and Sentry are technically "pets" (so to speak), so whenever we make the change to no longer allow pet damage to reflect back to the player, they'll be included too.

- If we do elect to move forward with having Reflects Damage be a duration-based affix, we'd also want to add a new visual for whenever RD is active.


YES! It's not my DH that is the problem with reflect damage these days, it's my sentries! I've switched to the chains so I get life on hit and it's resolved itself out but would be nice to go back to the rockets.
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Or you could simply remove it seeing as it IS a toxic game mechanic.
The issues for 1.05 are this:
1. The community sucks. Nobody wants to use any strategy or alternate gear. D3 = "Full speed ahead" and "my playstyle should finish the game and beat everything!"


so we should all subscribe to YOURS instead? get the !@#$ out.

how about this: RD is removed and you get to keep playing the same way, and I get to play how I want to.

gee that sounds a lot better. seriously what the !@#$ is your problem? why do you feel everyone has to play how you want them to? if RD is not a problem for you, what should you care whether or not it is in the game? oh right because you want to !@#$ on how other people play.


Excellent point and one that should be addressed. Not sayin you were replying to,a Barb but I have noticed an overwhelmingly Barb presence in these threads callin us whiners andmsaying RD is fine. Why do,they care then. What do they have to gain by posting thier BS?

Ill tell you what they have to lose. The income they generate either in game or out by selling the godly gear that i really only see Barbs selling. Sure we all,have a chance to find the same but with RD there to stop any efficient farming build we can use and gear for they have a virtual monoploy going. After all getting rid of RD or allowing DEX to mitigate it would hurt a Barb in what other possible way.
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


here's how you fix static solely gear based affix
into affix which also takes player skills like tactical movement into consideration:

-this should be a curse effect much like reflect damage on succubi
activated when a player is hit (lack of player skill), and not always on (gear check)
this way a skilled player can avoid it, so its not a spreadsheet-rpg affix but an action-rpg affix

- reflect damage instant autohit elite affix = gearcheck (unavoidable)
- succubus missile reflect damage curse = player skill check (avoidable by skillful movement)

one of these doesnt belong to arpg
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.


I'm glad you guys are looking into it, but honestly Lylirra, it's hard to believe that nothing has changed with RD. Some monsters reflect a TON more damage than they used to and there's even differences between packs on how effective their RD is. Maybe it's the loss of additional resist for some classes, but I can 1-shot myself of minions without serenity even when they have a sliver of health left.

Generally speaking, RD is too strong right now and that impacts farming efficiency. The only way around this is to drop MP so low that I basically 1-shot trash monsters, 3-shot elites.

The single most irritating thing is to get your five stacks, go hunting for the key warden, but run into a pack where you 1-shot yourself every time. Just not worth it to farm beyond that points an have to start over.
11/02/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Carlomagno
How about something like the old Iron Maiden graphic?


Can Sweeping wind, and or bells, be categorized as pet?
here's how you fix static solely gear based affix
into affix which also takes player skills like tactical movement into consideration:

-this should be a curse effect much like reflect damage on succubi
activated when a player is hit (lack of player skill), and not always on (gear check)
this way a skilled player can avoid it, so its not a spreadsheet-rpg affix but an action-rpg affix

- reflect damage instant autohit elite affix = gearcheck (unavoidable)
- succubus missile reflect damage curse = player skill check (avoidable by skillful movement)

one of these doesnt belong to arpg


Agreed.
11/02/2012 03:54 PMPosted by Grave
That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


here's how you fix static solely gear based affix
into affix which also takes player skills like tactical movement into consideration:

-this should be a curse effect much like reflect damage on succubi
activated when a player is hit (lack of player skill), and not always on (gear check)
this way a skilled player can avoid it, so its not a spreadsheet-rpg affix but an action-rpg affix

- reflect damage instant autohit elite affix = gearcheck (unavoidable)
- succubus missile reflect damage curse = player skill check (avoidable by skillful movement)

one of these doesnt belong to arpg


Well said.
11/02/2012 04:00 PMPosted by arcane1
The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.


I'm glad you guys are looking into it, but honestly Lylirra, it's hard to believe that nothing has changed with RD. Some monsters reflect a TON more damage than they used to and there's even differences between packs on how effective their RD is. Maybe it's the loss of additional resist for some classes, but I can 1-shot myself of minions without serenity even when they have a sliver of health left.

Generally speaking, RD is too strong right now and that impacts farming efficiency. The only way around this is to drop MP so low that I basically 1-shot trash monsters, 3-shot elites.

The single most irritating thing is to get your five stacks, go hunting for the key warden, but run into a pack where you 1-shot yourself every time. Just not worth it to farm beyond that points an have to start over.


Unfortunately this has been pointed out on many occasions but the Ego of the design team stops them from ever admiting they made a mistake. Also i see nowhere where this supposed 25% reduction in monster damage that was brought in with 1.05 also cut RD by 25%. We warned about this before the patch that because it reflects our damage it prolly would not be effected by the reduction. Add the nerf to Gloom and is easy to see they fully wanted to kill DH more often. Or should I say kill ourselves more often.

Gogo Barbablo

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