MP10 farmin' BUILD; gear & guide. UPDATED^2

Witch Doctor
I dont like sacrifice builds either, would lose my 13% crit to acid cloud and you have to wait for the dogs to approach the target if not in melee range, they dont always approach the ideal target, you lose the healing back from leaching beasts. ..... as already said though to each his own play the build you like, just suggesting one to try if you are struggling in high MP levels


Well the whole point of 0 cooldown dogs build is that yes you would lose the crit to AC because you wouldn't be using the skill at all. And the play style is that you're in the center of the group so you don't have to worry about the dogs approaching or not going to a specific target. And the health globe drops and health gained from For the master sacrifice rune far outweigh the leaching beast rune, especially if you stack +extra health globe affixes.

Either you built this build and had no clue how to play it or you're just speculating on how it would be played. Hopefully that gives you some better insight though. But like you said, to each his own.
11/15/2012 12:17 AMPosted by enigma
In the middle MP's? Like Mp4-mp8 I can 3 shot elites with acid rain... so I still don't see what you're getting at this is an mp10 focussed build. Next time read beter, this time GTFO.


What I am getting at is that you are making a bunch of wild claims that are false.

You say that you have a farmable MP10 build. But you are taking so long to kill things that alternative specs perform far, far better. Farms are about efficiency, not mere completion.

You say that you are outdamaging Bears. You aren't. We know this from your MP10 key production times.

You say that you are outdamaging me, and that my build is bad. You aren't, and it isn't. We know this from relative mid-tier MP farm speeds, and from MP10 key production speeds as well.

I'll leave you alone once you're honest about what your build can and can't do. What you're doing right now is encouraging people to spend gold on gear to no purpose. We have enough of those threads, and enough people claiming that they've been misled by those threads.

Next time, be honest and up front about what your build can do. Be conservative in your claims. Then you put us in a position where we're encouraged to help you improve your build, rather than expose false claims as misinformation.
11/14/2012 01:03 PMPosted by enigma
Read over the % weapon damage out per second section, and if you can accept the idea that althought your crits wont be as e-peen-stiffening, you will be putting out more damage per unit of time, then you should be quite satisfied with the damage output.


No need to read it, bears kill a lot quicker than AC. I don't know how to explain it or how it works, they just do.
This thread is getting good!
In the middle MP's? Like Mp4-mp8 I can 3 shot elites with acid rain... so I still don't see what you're getting at this is an mp10 focussed build. Next time read beter, this time GTFO.


What I am getting at is that you are making a bunch of wild claims that are false.

You say that you have a farmable MP10 build. But you are taking so long to kill things that alternative specs perform far, far better. Farms are about efficiency, not mere completion.

You say that you are outdamaging Bears. You aren't. We know this from your MP10 key production times.

You say that you are outdamaging me, and that my build is bad. You aren't, and it isn't. We know this from relative mid-tier MP farm speeds, and from MP10 key production speeds as well.

I'll leave you alone once you're honest about what your build can and can't do. What you're doing right now is encouraging people to spend gold on gear to no purpose. We have enough of those threads, and enough people claiming that they've been misled by those threads.

Next time, be honest and up front about what your build can do. Be conservative in your claims. Then you put us in a position where we're encouraged to help you improve your build, rather than expose false claims as misinformation.


You have some definitions of farmable that may be personally biased. I have been honest about what the build can do, you just come in here saying something like well this (my build) isn't a build that can farm because (you claim) you can do it faster.

Regardless of the questionable validity of your claim, the ability of a spec to farm content is only limited by time in that you need to kill the 2nd elite in before the stack from the first falls off, strictly speaking.

So I'll just consider the rest of your responses free bumps, if anyone else needs advice feel free to post.

New updates have been added to original post.
11/15/2012 07:38 AMPosted by badmojo101
Read over the % weapon damage out per second section, and if you can accept the idea that althought your crits wont be as e-peen-stiffening, you will be putting out more damage per unit of time, then you should be quite satisfied with the damage output.


No need to read it, bears kill a lot quicker than AC. I don't know how to explain it or how it works, they just do.

Anecdotal observation with little control. Have you tried my spec as listed, because obviously acid cloud is not the only source of damage. If I was a simpleton and couldn't manage to do any math what-so-ever, I might be inclined to say " HEY BIG CRITS THESE MUST BE DA BEST JUST SPAM THEM ALL DAY" ; but there are other ways to play, my build is focused on AoE DoT....and again I am only returning hate on your build because you are purporting it towards mine; to each his own play what you enjoy, I don't care!
11/15/2012 08:01 AMPosted by enigma
Have you tried my spec as listed, because obviously acid cloud is not the only source of damage.


Yes I have tried a similar DOT/passive setup with Manitou, toads, and sometimes even GotD, spider queen, pyrogeist, etc. It's a fun build. I'm just saying it doesn't kill stuff quicker than bears, that's all :)
Question if this is a Pet build why aren't you using FL? I never thought ZH as being very useful but FL and regen has always been a large part of a pet build.
11/15/2012 08:08 AMPosted by LuckyDog
Question if this is a Pet build why aren't you using FL? I never thought ZH as being very useful but FL and regen has always been a large part of a pet build.


I was using it previously until upgraded DPS enough so leaching beasts is healing them for more then the regen was, or if it is not more, it is at least enough. Thorns damage I had was also no longer relevant compared to DPS, although at lower DPS levels if you've got the regen/thorns it could definitely be a good place to start (as I did).
151051
I use a LS Skorn instead of a LoH Skorn. Would you still spam Toads if the proc coefficient weren't an issue, or would you use a different primary?

Also: Martin what build are you using at high MP? Your profile looks like it's set up for something lower at the moment.
thanks for the response to my earlier question but i got another one for ya
do i need to make sure one of my zuni pieces needs to have pick up radius?
ive heard that witch doctors need lots of pickup radius
@op
With your gear, any spec works.

For dps, nth really beat bears, this is without a doubt

/freebumps
Flaming and the debate about the comparison to bears aside (for the record, I also doubt it can match the dmg output of bears, because, well, nothing can) this spec had some good for me.

I happen to have decided to get a LoH Skorn the other day. And your spec is the first time that I can go toe-to-toe with high MP mobs without feeling like I'm way out of my league. I'm lacking LoH in comparison to you, but it seems to work so far.

I also got me a set of 0cd ZD items, but I severely lack the required defensive stats to stand in the middle of stuff and blow my dogs (MP7 seems to be the absolute maximum for me and I have to kite hard hitting stuff quite annoyingly long).

I still believe however, that a LL Skorn + bears is way stronger. Sadly, such a weapon is WAY out of my league (EU) and I don't even believe I will ever posses such a huge amount of gold that I would need /sadface.

So why am I saying this? It's a nice build that feels tanky without needing actual tank stats. That's got to be worth something, right?
(@Packers FTW)

Bear Loh coefficient is terrible, and posititonal requirement practically couldn't be worse. Pierce the veil is a well chosen passive for a pet orientated and primary spam build as such; but is not a necessary piece of the build for viability as mentioned. If you have a lot of dps leaching beasts out heal burning dogs by an !@# ton, burning dogs proc coeffecient is .01 I believe.

Lets think 1% of our massive LoH (~20 loh) or 50% of 19k white hits and 80k crits (well actually (50/40)% (40=5 units [4dog 1 you]x 5 [inferno life stead reduce] still end up with 400 hp returned minimum per zombie dog hit. BURNING DOGS RETURNS LESS HP/SEC AND ARE MUCH MORE SQUISHY.

(i.e. on MP10, any other rune for dogs would die rapidly unless using fierce loyalty)

Please don't spread more misinformation in my thread, PackersFTW, feel free to make your own with whatever whimsical nonsense you feel like assembling.


Firstly, anybody using bears to proc LoH clearly has no clue what they're doing. I use RoT like I said, and my bears use LS, which every class uses anyways so no point in pointing out that I have LS.

Speaking of misinformation, proc is .05 for Burning Dogs, and I tested it and it works well with LoH. How much do you have? I have 2000. If you think 2000 LoH with Burning Dogs is negligible, WTF. That's all I'll say though, I don't want to spread "misinformation" now do I?

Edit: After testing I just did, 2000 LoH BD is slightly better than 100k DPS LB. We're talking like another 100 life a tick though, not much. Most players don't have the LoH I have though, so it's understandable LB is a good choice for many, especially those who also don't have 800 AR like I do. So it's no wonder people like LB.

Oh that testing was done against 2-3 mobs at a time, so when there's a huge crowd, BD would win easily. Messed up you're saying I'm spreading misinformation, when I just proved (to myself as well) that I had the right rune all along in BD.
(@Packers FTW)

Bear Loh coefficient is terrible, and posititonal requirement practically couldn't be worse. Pierce the veil is a well chosen passive for a pet orientated and primary spam build as such; but is not a necessary piece of the build for viability as mentioned. If you have a lot of dps leaching beasts out heal burning dogs by an !@# ton, burning dogs proc coeffecient is .01 I believe.

Lets think 1% of our massive LoH (~20 loh) or 50% of 19k white hits and 80k crits (well actually (50/40)% (40=5 units [4dog 1 you]x 5 [inferno life stead reduce] still end up with 400 hp returned minimum per zombie dog hit. BURNING DOGS RETURNS LESS HP/SEC AND ARE MUCH MORE SQUISHY.

(i.e. on MP10, any other rune for dogs would die rapidly unless using fierce loyalty)

Please don't spread more misinformation in my thread, PackersFTW, feel free to make your own with whatever whimsical nonsense you feel like assembling.


Firstly, anybody using bears to proc LoH clearly has no clue what they're doing. I use RoT like I said, and my bears use LS, which every class uses anyways so no point in pointing out that I have LS.

Speaking of misinformation, proc is .05 for Burning Dogs, and I tested it and it works well with LoH. How much do you have? I have 2000. If you think 2000 LoH with Burning Dogs is negligible, WTF. That's all I'll say though, I don't want to spread "misinformation" now do I?

Edit: After testing I just did, 2000 LoH BD is slightly better than 100k DPS LB. We're talking like another 100 life a tick though, not much. Most players don't have the LoH I have though, so it's understandable LB is a good choice for many, especially those who also don't have 800 AR like I do. So it's no wonder people like LB.

Oh that testing was done against 2-3 mobs at a time, so when there's a huge crowd, BD would win easily. Messed up you're saying I'm spreading misinformation, when I just proved (to myself as well) that I had the right rune all along in BD.


burning dogs is .01 and low range. ive tried them already, and they dont survive long on high MP levels regardless, so they would not be a viable option for MP10-solely based on this fact; so in essence there really isn't a need to analyze the differences in healing gained anyways. bears are bad for high MP for 2 reasons (1) the positional requirement (2) low loh coefficient. The latter can obviously be subverted with LS, but even using up to 5.5% LS (highest I've tested) with 160k unbuffed (no ptv) dps, it still heals significantly slower than does loh with acid rain.

I haven't bumped this in a bit because forums were not letting me log in and I lost track of the thread for a bit, but currently I've gone back to the original spec I posted. I like the fantasm rune of spirit barrage but the damage is just too low (and especially even moreso damage per mana) to be viable versus manitou. Manitou is 1667% wep damage for ~100 mana, every acid cloud (if not spammed, and allowed for the dot to tick) will be doing as much damage as bears in an aoe environment, (bears will only outdps when getting multiple bears to hit 1 target, but this imposes even further positional requirements).

This is intended to be a pet-focused build as previously mentioned, and as such having positional freedom while pets do a lot of the work for you is a big part of the specs viability.
for particularly hard elite combos all you'll need to do is bring em to a stairway or hallway or other choke point; at this spot your pets will block them from reaching you, and your acid rain will be hitting all the targets (making it superior damage per cast then bears, given appropriately spaced apart).

The only change I've recently made is to give a mana regen Zuni vision a try and I have not used it enough yet to comment on how advantagous it is or isn't.

TLDR-- bear builds are one thing, and this is a whole 'nother. Bears can work, but in my experience require stupid good gear to progress past MP6; meanwhile my build can hold its own with less gear at MP10. This is the build to get the most for your buck basically; but as I've said many times already.. play whatever you enjoy.
thanks for the response to my earlier question but i got another one for ya
do i need to make sure one of my zuni pieces needs to have pick up radius?
ive heard that witch doctors need lots of pickup radius

pickup radius is only of significance for grave injustice/ gruesome feast orientated specs. I use 0, although if I could add pickup radius to 1 item of mine, I would, only because with 0 gold can often get stuck and you cannot actually pick it up.
I use a LS Skorn instead of a LoH Skorn. Would you still spam Toads if the proc coefficient weren't an issue, or would you use a different primary?

Also: Martin what build are you using at high MP? Your profile looks like it's set up for something lower at the moment.

if using a life steal build, I would not be able to do anything over mp6 comfortably, but if you are persistent and still want to use life steal; rain is still a good primary, but it does open up other options, personally, I would choose fire bomb-roll the bones for a pure life steal build.
@op
With your gear, any spec works.

For dps, nth really beat bears, this is without a doubt

/freebumps

Think about your available talents as weapon damage per cast. acid rain beats bears here when spaced properly apart. once again, positional requirements are a major hinderance for bear based builds as well. This is an alternative that I wouldn't claim is exclusively better then a bear build though; just looking from a gear required for MP level perspective, this build IMHO trumps all.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum