Is Sharpshooter worth using?

General Discussion
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I have no idea why people keep saying SS is bad with over X% crit chance.

This is not the old days where you wait for it to stack to max and unleash LfB on elites.

Low or high base chance does not matter, it is a dynamic crit chance bonus, if you kill packs in a few seconds and takes another 3seconds to move to the next pack, it's effectively a similar bonus as archery(hand crossbow), which is a top pick if you use hand crossbow. The longer it takes for you to travel without shooting, the better.

It's also free damage when you have to kite, to run for disc/hatred regen, also has great synergy with slow approaching skills like ball lightning and spike trap.

Though with the trend right now, you're either farming low MP with high movement speed, or high MP with a lot of monster HP, both making limited use of SS due to obvious reason.
Everyone saying SS is !@#$ and that it's useless when you have 30% crit chance...
Here's an advice :
Learn some math, learn some stats, then COUNT how much sharpshooter will increase your DPS with 30% crit chance.
I can guarantee you'll put it back in your passives when what you need is straight DPS.

For those of you who are saying 'Well, there's so many other great passives to earn discipline on crits, or increase our resistances, and so on'... Sure, I won't argue against you.

But if you just think SS is bad after 30% crit chance, I tell you right away that you're just plain wrong.

And I'm just talking about straight DPS increase from 1 crit now.
Just counting the straight DPS boost from 1 crit is still going to be a huge DPS boost. ( Go ahead, count it, you proud high-crit chance guys ).

Once you've figured out how much it boosts your DPS, now taking into account that :
1) It's a much bigger boost than that, because you fire more than 1 crit, it lasts a second.
2) When you start a fight ( say, after walking into an uber's portal ) you're often at 100% crit for a full second, allowing you to deal huge DPS right off the start.
and this one, most people don't even seem to realise :
3) That crit chance % raise at all time. Not just 'in combat when you don't crit'.
You pick up drops for 10 seconds? Enjoy that +30% crit.
You walk 25 seconds to find an elite pack? Assuming you have at least 25% base, well, you're at 100% now.

Even if it was just straight DPS boosts in combat, it'd still be huge.
But with #1, #2 and #3, it's an amazing skill, and whoever call it useless is either an elitist fool, or just didn't count it and assume it was bad.

12/07/2012 11:45 AMPosted by CoolHandLuke
Why should I spend 100m gold on a ring with cc+cd+dex+vit+ar+armor when I can pay a few million and skip the cc on the ring and just get it with ss?


Because SS is next to useless?

Take a "100k DPS" DH and compare them to a 100k DPS DH, and see who farms faster.

Disable that Sharpshooter passive to see that you really have about 35k DPS.


Durr.
No way, a 100k SS DH isn't as good as a 100k non-SS Dh! I can't believe it!
...
If a non-SS dh has 100k DPS, he'll have like 250k with SS.
I don't play DH too often, but recently dropped Sharp Shooter when my crit chance went above 40%. There are a lot of other good passives to use.
All Barbs I've seen posted here says its the best passive ..

Well I think Sharp Shooter is useless when you get to 100k dps and 40-50% crit chance .. witch is pretty easy now..

I've played 175h DH, 380h Monk and 100h Barb.. and I must say Barb have the best passive skills ;] pure killing machine !
12/07/2012 11:39 AMPosted by DarkInvalid
Steady aim also becomes useless at high mp levels. Your dh will hardly be away 20yards from elite packs. So this skill becomes wasted 75% of the time.

I have to both disagree and correct what DarkInvalid wrote.

Correction: Steady Aim does NOT require enemies be 20 yards away. It requires them to only be 10 yards away.

Difference of opinion: Depending on the DH build and style of play, getting plenty of benefit from Steady Aim is not only possible, but can be easily achieved. For just one example, use of Caltrops (paired with the Torturous Grounds rune) and a regular backstepping can keep enemies at the bay 10+ yards the vast majority of the time. SA usefulness might be one of the (if not THE) most strategy / build dependent of passive skills.

In terms of the OP question, several responders argued that critical hit bonus equipment make Sharp Shooter less compelling, seeming to suggest that there is simply a diminishing return, that at a point other passives become more useful. I would agree and add that a continually maturing AH can now provide higher critical hit bonus items (> 6%) relatively inexpensively and becoming cheaper all the time, further eroding the allure of SS.

Also, fewer players might be opting for SS post-1.0.5 update. In my opinion, it made a number of builds other than the high crit/damage (often more glass canon-style) DH more capable and fun. I see fewer people relying on SS and even Gloom now. Both are temporary / cyclic skills, meaning their potency waxes and wanes, and that is less appealing to some builds, like the Stun and Run builds.
passives i found work best
archery-good damage boost
night stalker-refills discipline on crit
perfectionist-health and res


These are the exact same passives i find that work the best around my build.

Sharpshooter doesn't suit my play style in overall damage.

I sometimes change out Archery for Custom Engineering or Numbing Traps depending on MP level and the party.
If I had a DH I would use it. From a physical standpoint, you will crit more often with it.

You hear absolute statements such as "above x crit chance it is useless".

I walk around with 58% CC with my Barb, and yet there are occasions where I am hitting an enemy 4, 5, 6 times in a row before I finally crit.
There are also situations where you are walking from one pack to the next and have a lull in combat, or visit town. There are numerous situations where it is obviously helping.

All in all, from a physical standpoint you will crit more often with SS. I think it is one of the best passives in the game.


Noob
12/08/2012 09:21 PMPosted by SilverRhythm
If you have 40-50% crit chance, sharpshooter can be ignored :)


Or I can save hundreds of millions of gold and get cc for free with ss and just stack cd and ias...
Here's the easiest way to look at it:

When you are still a scrub, use sharpshooter.
When you graduate from scrub status, move on to pro passives.

edit:
Example of a sharpshooter user who actually is scrub gear'd:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/JaceAltair-2678/hero/10755643
^uses sharpshooter for the 300k sheet dps markup, when in reality it's far lower

edit2:
Example of an actual good DH with ~300K *REAL* DPS -- none of that scrub fluffery from using scrubshooter:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tang-1275/hero/1208349
While your comments about Sharpshooter being a scrub passive and then talk about "pro passives" is completely idiotic, you are right about JaceAltair ROFLMAO

That build is horribad. It's so horrible he should even be ashamed of playing a Demon Hunter. Sharpshooter does not suit E-Arrow/Frost Arrow because it fires too fast and uses up the 100% crit too quickly making it useless the rest of the fight. It'll 100% crit when the arrows split up but that's as far as it goes.

Sharpshooter is best for slow moving projectiles where you can launch a variety of them guaranteeing crit on every single one of them. Cluster Bombs is one such ability and probably the best ability for Sharpshooter as it can one shot elites. Spike Trap/Scatter is another good one because you can lay 3-6 of them before they go off, and once they do, it'll 100% crit everything in it's AOE.

Knowledge of Sharpshooter is what separates a good Dh from a bad DH. Reading this thread, I can instantly tell who knows a lot about Dh and who doesn't. Those who bash Sharpshooter w/o knowing what it can do stands as some of the worst DH (doesn't matter what your DPS is, you're terrible). Those who use Sharpshooter w/ incorrect abilities is also terrible.
Though with the trend right now, you're either farming low MP with high movement speed, or high MP with a lot of monster HP, both making limited use of SS due to obvious reason.
Exactly and that's why SS isn't used in a lot of builds right now. It's not a bad passive but DH are opting for more utility rather than damage and that's something we have plenty of in the first place.
Personally I love SS. I've never gotten rid of it and have no plans too. With high attack speed I'm critical hitting almost non-stop. It allowed me to remove focus on gear that gives me a minor crit chance boost and instead focus on critical hit dmg which I currently have at 231%.

I find it particurly useful at the beginning of a large group where i'm at 100% and I can drop a mine.
After a point I noticed that SS wasn't helping me anymore. This is when I was in the 30ish crit chance range. I've since gotten a little over 50 crit chance. I mean sure it gave me some high crit hits if say I ran to town and it was allowed to max out while I sold to the vendor or something. But since I crit every 1-3 hits anyway, it was pointless for me to use. I switch my passives something but right now I have steady aim, archery and perfectionist.
Everyone saying SS is !@#$ and that it's useless when you have 30% crit chance...
Here's an advice :
Learn some math, learn some stats, then COUNT how much sharpshooter will increase your DPS with 30% crit chance.
I can guarantee you'll put it back in your passives when what you need is straight DPS.

For those of you who are saying 'Well, there's so many other great passives to earn discipline on crits, or increase our resistances, and so on'... Sure, I won't argue against you.

But if you just think SS is bad after 30% crit chance, I tell you right away that you're just plain wrong.

And I'm just talking about straight DPS increase from 1 crit now.
Just counting the straight DPS boost from 1 crit is still going to be a huge DPS boost. ( Go ahead, count it, you proud high-crit chance guys ).

Once you've figured out how much it boosts your DPS, now taking into account that :
1) It's a much bigger boost than that, because you fire more than 1 crit, it lasts a second.
2) When you start a fight ( say, after walking into an uber's portal ) you're often at 100% crit for a full second, allowing you to deal huge DPS right off the start.
and this one, most people don't even seem to realise :
3) That crit chance % raise at all time. Not just 'in combat when you don't crit'.
You pick up drops for 10 seconds? Enjoy that +30% crit.
You walk 25 seconds to find an elite pack? Assuming you have at least 25% base, well, you're at 100% now.

Even if it was just straight DPS boosts in combat, it'd still be huge.
But with #1, #2 and #3, it's an amazing skill, and whoever call it useless is either an elitist fool, or just didn't count it and assume it was bad.



Because SS is next to useless?

Take a "100k DPS" DH and compare them to a 100k DPS DH, and see who farms faster.

Disable that Sharpshooter passive to see that you really have about 35k DPS.


Durr.
No way, a 100k SS DH isn't as good as a 100k non-SS Dh! I can't believe it!
...
If a non-SS dh has 100k DPS, he'll have like 250k with SS.


I haven't kept up with this thread, however I did say early on that beyond about 30-35% crit chance you won't see as much return with sharpshooter, and in practice this is generally true. I won't try to deny the additional benefits given to you by sharpshooter when used properly. However, please keep this in mind. Your average DH is going to be running 1.5-2.5 APS, with approximately 30-40% crit chance. To lowball this, over 2 seconds you are getting off 3 shots (1.5aps). Of those 3 shots, chances are that 1 of them will crit, sharpshooter makes this ever more likely as time goes on. Based on AoE of most DH skills, and APS, you are looking at a minimal gain in combat.

You are completely correct is saying it will give a huge edge between combat and honestly if you can keep up a pattern of hit hard and fast early against packs of mobs and move on to the next then you have found a way to very effectively use sharpshooter.

I think there is also a very good potential use for it in traps based builds, and getting max crits off traps with it.

However, a lot of skills such as bola, grenades (cluster grenades rune), strafe, ball lightning, and other such high AoE attacks or attacks that tick multiple times for damage are not going to be able to take full advantage of sharpshooter based on how more likely they are to continuously reset sharpshooter on you.

I may have given the wrong impression in my initial post by saying it is "useless" beyond X% crit chance. What my intention was to say that you will see diminishing returns beyond that 30-35% crit chance bracket because you are going to be critting one out of 3 mobs or ticks based on what skills you use. Single target or non-AoE attacks such as Hungering arrow, evasive fire, cluster arrows, elemental arrow, etc will see far more benefit from this passive due to the nature of how that gameplay differs.
No matter what skills you choose or what gear you choose there will always be someone telling you that you are doing it wrong.

I DW, and use sharpshooter, oh the horror....I must be ultra noob.

Honestly I like Sharpshooter for the bit of extra crit chance, those bursts of crits help. Its a legit usable skill. If blizzard had not made the DPS shown reflect it, then it probably would not be the focus of all this unnecessary animosity.

Make your build how you like, use the skills you like, as long as you can kill stuff and survive without being a carry its all good.
12/09/2012 10:07 AMPosted by speedforce
While your comments about Sharpshooter being a scrub passive and then talk about "pro passives" is completely idiotic, you are right about JaceAltair ROFLMAO


That build is horribad. It's so horrible he should even be ashamed of playing a Demon Hunter. Sharpshooter does not suit E-Arrow/Frost Arrow because it fires too fast and uses up the 100% crit too quickly making it useless the rest of the fight. It'll 100% crit when the arrows split up but that's as far as it goes.


12/09/2012 10:07 AMPosted by speedforce
Those who use Sharpshooter w/ incorrect abilities is also terrible.


Oh really? Aren't you the same person that keeps on saying he's always right, and I've proven several times how wrong you were? ROFL!

Posted a couple of pages back, Frost Arrow Build with Sharp Shooter, Reposted just for you "Mr. Know It All" speedforce, because you seem to be too lazy to read and thus making you a fool for judging other peoples builds that you've no idea how it's setup;

Mp3 Elites in 5 Seconds;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KF1kWOfvuI&feature=g-crec-u

Mp3 Elites in 5-10 Seconds;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sRqECU-EQU&feature=g-crec-u

Mp3 Vota;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6mEnntLY7I&feature=g-crec-u

Oh it's terrible you say??? 500-600K Crits easy with Frost Arrow using 1H Bows, 890K highest Crit done to elites. Give me a 1300Dmg Manticore and I'll crit upto 1M easy. I'll let you guess how I manage to deal those damage with my measly 1HBows if you ever figure it out you'll know why Sharp Shooter is suited for that build, "Mr. Know It All" speedforce.

__________________________________________________________________________________
JaceAltair EU Server
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/JaceAltair-2678/

DH Stun Build Trolling Elites and Ubers on MP10
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7178978741#1
I think people go mad on each other over a skill from a game is just plain stupid.
Obvious change to skill should be that only big spenders like cluster bomb reset ss, generators like hungering arrow should not affet it, this woukd make SS usefull for spike traps etc yet not to op making hungering arrow etc way overpowered for a generator.
I guess that depends on whether or not you actually enjoy what they present as a '' game ''.
12/07/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Fimble


Why should I spend 100m gold on a ring with cc+cd+dex+vit+ar+armor when I can pay a few million and skip the cc on the ring and just get it with ss? There's no other really good passives like SS.


Archery+steady aim is practically required and then you have perfectionist or night stalker.


Somewhat true, SS is useless at high CC especiallyy when you're shooting very fast, my 3aps DH crits atleast once every second if not twice, so SS should just reset w/o ever going up. As for steady aim it becomes useless against elites and mobs of whites that try to surround you.

And like others said probably the best passive combination atm are:

archery- Crit chance (for me atleast) boost
night stalker-discipline generator
perfectionist-health, res AND more importantly reduced discipline costs

Resource management is probably the single most important thing for a dh, if you can find a way to almost have SP up at all times during fights then you shouldn't die.

As a start if you have high unbuffed dps and you cast Chakrams Shuriken cloud AFTER SP is casted then you will have the life leech bonus from SP on the shuriken cloud for the full 2 min which pretty much makes you invincible upto mp3 against whites (they will end up healing you instead of damaging). My shuriken cloud crits at about 80k damage so thats a lot of hp returned.
Not worth it

When you think about it, the only shot you're going to get off with the highest dps is the first one..

All the other shots will have an unbuffed dmg rate.. your point is better spent on something else like Night Stalker or if you use Sentries like me, Engineering

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