WKL lightning skills damage valuing

Monk
I've edited the title here to reflect what this thread ultimately lead to the discovery of (at least for me). And that is how to theoretically value the lightning skills damage stat on WKL. To figure out the hidden value of your WKL, use this math:

x = % of total damage your tc + cyclones provide
└───────────────── (usually in the 80-90% range)
y = % lightning skills damage your wkl provides
z = your pdps

that gives us the formulas:

z * x = a
a * (1+y) = b
z * (1-x) = c
b + c = d

d - z = total pdps your "y" provides unbuffed
d = your real pdps factoring in your "y"


So, I've seen people give opinions and estimates on how much each contribute to EDPS but I wanted to get an idea for myself through a small sample size of testing.

Its definitely relevant to people who are interested in buying Radiance's with FoT or SW damage, and which is worth more.

The premise is that if kill times are cut in half or more when Sweeping Wind is added to Thunderclap, that it is indeed worth more than 50% of total EDPS.

build used = http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aXgkYS!XUY!abYYcc
gear + stats used = http://d3up.com/b/118257

My weaker 3 LS WKL, Reclamation, and BoH were used to help stay alive with TC only runs to eliminate dps downtime.

So heres some small sample size testing results I've written down:

MP5 Azmodan HP = 25,738,048
Unbuffed DPS = 82,999
BW Buffed DPS = 95,449
APS = 2.10 & 2.39 [+27% IAS]
CC = 33%


    TC only kill times & EDPS:

  • 1m14s - 347,811 EDPS
  • 1m10s - 367,686 EDPS
  • 1m15s - 343,174 EDPS
  • 1m13s - 352,576 EDPS
  • 1m17s - 334,260 EDPS
  • Averages = 1m14s - 349,197 EDPS
  • -
      TC & Cylone kill times & EDPS:

  • 0m40s - 643,451 EDPS
  • 0m40s - 643,451 EDPS
  • 0m38s - 677,317 EDPS
  • 0m41s - 627,757 EDPS
  • 0m40s - 643,451 EDPS
  • Averages = 0m40s - 650,224 EDPS
  • --

    So with that in mind TC was worth 349k DPS [53.7%] while SW & Cyclone were worth 301k DPS [46.3%].

    I'd be interested to see (if anybody else is willing to try doing some tests) whether the values of each increase or decrease in difference depending on gear quality. Since mine isn't that great in the grand scheme of things lol.
    Ah yeah thats very true, let me include my values for both stats in the OP for reference.
    Whats the bonus Lighting dmg on your WKL ?

    From sweeping wind cyclone description , im not sure i all dmg is lightning or only cyclones hit for lightning dmg...
    Whats the bonus Lighting dmg on your WKL ?

    From sweeping wind cyclone description , im not sure i all dmg is lightning or only cyclones hit for lightning dmg...

    Ah yeah I forgot d3up doesn't have a stat for that. Its 24%. And you're right, only part of Sweeping Wind's damage is lightning based, the Cyclones. It would probably be better to do this without using WKL. I'll do some tests with a 3 LS Fist I have instead tomorrow and post the results.

    Its definitely relevant to people who are interested in buying Radiance's with FoT or SW damage, and which is worth more.


    In my testing, FoT and SW bonus make no noticeable difference, just fyi for yall. Anyone experimented with different result?
    I didn't get a chance to do any testing today like I said I would, I'll try to do some tomorrow.

    Given the fact that I was using a WKL though and the fact that Sweeping Wind's damage itself (minus the Cyclone damage) is NOT lightning based, I would guess that Pham is right in saying that the damage the runes provide is closer to 50/50. I will do some testing (with the same sample size) tomorrow and post the results though.
    I only did this on mp1 but I was getting this over a few runs.

    Without SW 377,346 effective DPS

    With SW 670,838 effective DPS
    I only did this on mp1 but I was getting this over a few runs.

    Without SW 377,346 effective DPS

    With SW 670,838 effective DPS

    Thanks for testing and sharing the results! Its interesting seeing your %'s both being so similar to mine despite me using a WKL and you not. I guess that goes to show how little dps Sweeping Wind itself actually contributes, and reinforces how strong Cyclone is.

    @Fitz
    Thanks for testing and sharing your results too! (forgot to thank you earlier)
    A word if warning regarding these results and what they say about +X% to SW or FoT gear... It's very likely that this gear will add less to your DPS than you might assume from these tests. For example, +10% to FoT may give substantially less than a 5% bonus to total DPS.

    I don't think anyone has conclusively worked out how those bonuses work in conjunction with other bonuses such as BoH, BF, or mantras. If it's additive with those (and I think it might be), then it may be of little value to many standard Monk builds.
    I used d3up.com's Skills section to check this out, and a Inna's Radiance with 6 cc and 14 FoT dmg provided slightly more OVERALL EDPS than a 6 cc Mempo with the same dex on both. I say overall, because it was after figuring in, approximately, the loss in SW and Cyclone damage.

    12/11/2012 06:26 PMPosted by Demiwraith
    I don't think anyone has conclusively worked out how those bonuses work in conjunction with other bonuses such as BoH, BF, or mantras. If it's additive with those (and I think it might be), then it may be of little value to many standard Monk builds.

    Thats a good point. The only real way of testing this would be to get a comparable PDPS helm without the FoT or SW damage, and doing some Azmodan testings to compare both. I'll try to get a cheap FoT one and do some testings.
    thanks for sharing. i always wondered myself and have been shopping for radiance with skills too...
    my guess is cc benefits cyclone more than tc and ias the other way... would be interested to see test results. either way 33cc and 2+ ias seems about normal so prob wont deviate that much from it.
    disclaimer - if any/all of my math is incorrect hopefully some kind soul will help to correct it

    I was curious to see how much damage Sweeping Wind itself, and Cyclone were doing separately, so I did some rough calculations based on d3up.com figures, and the results I posted in OP. Heres what I got and how I arrived at it:

    TC + BW + MoC + FitL = 407,151 EDPS for 6 out of 40 seconds (15%) which contributes ~61k
    TC + BW + MoC = 244,232 EDPS for 34 out of 40 seconds (85%) which contributes ~208k
    208k + 61k = 269k * 1.24 (WKL) = 334k (95% of 349k that testing averaged out to)

    SW + BW + MoC + FitL = 84,238 EDPS for 6 out of 40 seconds (15%) which contributes ~13k
    SW + BW + MoC = 50,531 EDPS for 34 out of 40 seconds (85%) which contributes ~43k
    43k + 13k = 56k * 1.05 (to normalize along with TC disparity) = 59k

    301k - 59k = 242k = ~Cyclone contribution

    242/650 = 37% = ~Cyclone total EDPS contribution

    Final contribution breakdown:
  • TC = 349k [53.7%]
  • SW = 59k [09.1%]
  • Cyclone = 242k [37.2%]
  • --

    242+349 = 591/650 = ~91% = ~TC + Cyclone total EDPS contribution, with WKL in mind

    This rough math goes to show just how valuable Won Khim Laus really are, effecting approximately 90% of cookie cutter builds' EDPS. In my case, the 24% L.S.D. (lightning skills damage) was worth anywhere between 65 and 80 thousand EDPS. Even at insanely high levels of gear, I think with this in mind its pretty safe to say that because of the L.S.D. WKLs provide, it makes it the largest source of EDPS monks can get from any one item.
    @OP

    I'm glad you brought up the cyclone vs SW (naked) damage. Is it possible for you to repeat your azmo test run with the following criteria? Would be so much appreciated I personally prefer seeing the run time difference between different set-ups than relying solely on a DPS calculator.

    gear: No WKL
    other skills: preferably no mantra of conviction (or do not spam it during the fight to maintain a stead damage bonus the entire fight).

    Run A: No SW pure FOT:TC
    Run B: SW Cyclone + FOT:TC
    Run C: SW Unruned+ FOT:TC
    Run D: SW Bladestorm + FOT:TC

    Only if it is possible OP. Thanks very much. And you're initial tests are much appreciated btw.

    EDIT: By the way since most monks do love their WKL, perhaps you can do all 4 set-up runs with and without WKL. ^_^

    EDIT#2: For the SW buffs, can i suggest that only BW and BL be the one buffing the SW? I know there are other ways of buffing SW (combination strike, DR:Foresight) But taking the majority of skill set-up, usually only BW and BL is used for buffing SW. Just a suggestion. thanks again ^_^
    Sure Kythe I'd be more than happy to do that kind of testing. I'm a bit busier today than I thought though so I don't think I'll have a chance to get in the game, at least not until tonight. I'll keep you posted though.
    @Kythe I'll try to remember and do them today when I get off work since I just found a pretty good WKL to run with and I'll see what numbers I come up with.
    OP I have been doing this on and off since that last WKL test thread with Azmo MP6. I'll gather some data in the next week or so and post on this thread. I'll try and accommodate requests like the one above and share with you guys.
    Run A: No SW pure FOT:TC - 431260
    Run B: SW Cyclone + FOT:TC - 805019
    Run C: SW Unruned+ FOT:TC - 635541
    Run D: SW Bladestorm + FOT:TC - 6708499

    These results are with my WKL though so cyclone damage is going to be a bit higher

    I also don't have the best CC in the world so I'd imagine someone with fast APS and higher CC cyclone damage% could go up a lot
    SW + BW + MoC + FitL = 84,238 EDPS for 6 out of 40 seconds (15%) which contributes ~13k
    SW + BW + MoC = 50,531 EDPS for 34 out of 40 seconds (85%) which contributes ~43k
    43k + 13k = 56k * 1.05 (to normalize along with TC disparity) = 59k

    301k - 59k = 242k = ~Cyclone contribution

    242/650 = 37% = ~Cyclone total EDPS contribution

    Final contribution breakdown:
    TC = 349k [53.7%]
    SW = 59k [09.1%]
    Cyclone = 242k [37.2%]

    I realized I failed to take into account the fact that SW damage is snapshotted. Which makes these figures incorrect. The correct figures look like this:

    SW + BW + MoC + FitL = 84,238 EDPS
    84,238 * 1.05 (to normalize along with TC disparity) = 88k EDPS
    301k - 88k = 213k = ~Cyclone contribution

    213/650 = 32.8% = ~Cylone total EDPS contribution

    Final contribution breakdown:
  • TC = 349k [53.7%]
  • SW = 88k [13.5%]
  • Cyclone = 213k [32.8%]
  • --

    As for the tests you asked me to do Kythe, unfortunately I'm not going to be able to get to my PC again today... hopefully Nacht's will suffice until I can.

    When I do get a chance though, I most definitely can and will do them with and without WKL (using the Fist my 2nd monk has on atm), and with only BW and FitL as buffs, and a non DPS boosting mantra+rune, as you requested.

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