Criticising Diablo 3

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01/13/2013 11:34 PMPosted by Alchemist
In terms of free additional content, we’d love to add more events similar to Infernal Machine to the Diablo universe, but whatever we add needs to fit within the scope of the game and needs to be weighed against other design costs. D3 isn’t an MMO, so it’s not going to receive regular content additions like an MMO (in terms of frequency and reward structures), but we’re definitely keeping our options open for the future, so don’t hesitate to let us know what interests you!


i dont see why diablo 3 cant receive regular content additions, guild wars 2 does this and they are not a subscription based mmo. also blizzard you have made more then enough money off all your games on sales alone and with wow subscription ranking in tons of money every month, money should not be an issue. your either being way to greedy or lazy either way i am disappointed what this company has become.


MMO's by their nature are designed to receive regular updates and like the CM said this is not an MMO so that is more than self explanatory. Did the first two Diablos receive regular updates every three months or so. Nope, they did not in fact some of the patches for D2 took years before they were out. The same argument can be made for D2 as well. I mean they keep selling that game and it is free to play like Guild Wars 1 is so by rights D2 should have free constant updates like an MMO, right.
Honestly, we should be criticizing the OP rather than the game.

KradisZ#1651

Last Time Played: 6 months ago

Paragon Level: 0
world: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)
Americas: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)

Heroscore: 1,807
world: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)
Americas: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)

DPS Unbuffed: 12,304.54
world: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)
Americas: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)

EHP Unbuffed: 39,672
world: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)
Americas: 50K+ (dh: 50K+)


Before anything else, remember to check credibility of the OP people. Check his details for yourselves.

http://www.diabloprogress.com/player/kradisz-1651


Funny that some people actually listen to a "Blue Weapon" child that keeps posting on various threads, but never actually played the game after patch 1.0.2.

Nothing to see here. This is undoubtedly a trolling thread. A total waste of time.
01/14/2013 07:07 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
You are the one asking why I dropped the point about bone spear and bone spirit. So I see you will not listen to reason. You only want me to tickle your ear and say what you want me to say. Sorry I do not do things like that.


Reason? You were the one who brought up if I went 15 15 on bone spear/spirit i'd be gimping my character, just wanted your insight on such a system that is practically and I do mean Practically identical in D3 that's all, just minus 1 feature that it's done for you automatically. I see you don't want to listen to your own reason and your own line of logic. Your paragon stats are practically given "skill" points that automatically invest into your character making it stronger in a way you don't want or want whether you like it or not, just in a path that you have no control over. SmH
Funny that some people actually listen to a "Blue Weapon" child that keeps posting on various threads, but never actually played the game after patch 1.0.2.

Nothing to see here. This is undoubtedly a trolling thread. A total waste of time.

Guess me saying that I haven't actually played since August or logged for a long time on post #1 because you couldn't bother to read, no one has to look up anything when I've already confirmed that? Yet my death timer critique seems to be addressed with 1.0.7 where they're being removed or set at 5s max? zomg?

Had no idea gear and equipment was a determinant of being able to critique Diablo 3, you should go rave on all the gaming websites telling professional reviewers that they don't know sh*t just because they don't have legendary or haven't beaten Inferno or Hell when they made their review.

01/14/2013 07:39 AMPosted by ZRaiyne
Before anything else, remember to check credibility of the OP people. Check his details for yourselves.


01/03/2013 12:13 AMPosted by KradisZ
What's your thought? (Probably I'm total hogwash since I haven't logged in since August).


Save you the trouble folks, if you're not foolish like this guy you just have to know how to read 1 sentence.


i dont see why diablo 3 cant receive regular content additions, guild wars 2 does this and they are not a subscription based mmo. also blizzard you have made more then enough money off all your games on sales alone and with wow subscription ranking in tons of money every month, money should not be an issue. your either being way to greedy or lazy either way i am disappointed what this company has become.


MMO's by their nature are designed to receive regular updates and like the CM said this is not an MMO so that is more than self explanatory. Did the first two Diablos receive regular updates every three months or so. Nope, they did not in fact some of the patches for D2 took years before they were out. The same argument can be made for D2 as well. I mean they keep selling that game and it is free to play like Guild Wars 1 is so by rights D2 should have free constant updates like an MMO, right.


Farmville receives more content updates than Diablo III and operates only on micro transactions.

Angry Birds receives more content updates than Diablo III and has no micro transactions or subscriptions.

Path of Exile is planned to be free to play, no subscriptions and no initial cost.

Also, Diablo II did not need regular content updates because unlike Diablo III it was a much more complete game when released, with a robust endgame item hunt and experience grind, a meaningful stat and skill system that offered far more immersion and a better RPG experience, and that offered infinitely more replayability due to those systems as well as the much truer randomized maps.
01/13/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Vaudevillian
Nope, dumbed down game mechanics is archaic and pointless and only attracts casuals and noobs. Problem is these people play so little it does not drive a game. When a game has complexity it is way more fun. You don't need to be smart to play diablo seems to be the direction the devs want to take it. Currently you only need the IQ of a chimp to play diablo 3.


hey man, there's nothing wrong with that. I have a tough job that requires me to use my brain all day, and I kinda want my Diablo to be simplified. When I get home from work, I just want to toast some demons. I have probably vendored gear that would have sold well on the AH because it wasn't for my class and I didn't want to leave the game and do math on whether any alts could use it. whatevs.

we all shelled out sixty bucks, so our stake is equal... don't let that fact hurt your butt so much. everyone on these forums that wants a complex, demanding experience should go to graduate school for engineering then work on getting employed for a consulting firm. you'll get your complexity fix there, and get paid.
"The Auction House has its advantages: you get to pick the exact stats that you want, it can be thrilling to find a bargain, and if you find a cool drop that your character can't use, the Auction House provides a way to earn gold to put toward an item you prefer. But it has some downsides. The biggest downside is that some players find it more rewarding to collect items from slain monsters or crafting."
- patch 1.07 quote

Some people find it more rewarding to collect items then using the auction house... Blizzard really? "Some people"? Try majority of the players!
01/14/2013 09:29 AMPosted by KradisZ
You are the one asking why I dropped the point about bone spear and bone spirit. So I see you will not listen to reason. You only want me to tickle your ear and say what you want me to say. Sorry I do not do things like that.


Reason? You were the one who brought up if I went 15 15 on bone spear/spirit i'd be gimping my character, just wanted your insight on such a system that is practically and I do mean Practically identical in D3 that's all, just minus 1 feature that it's done for you automatically. I see you don't want to listen to your own reason and your own line of logic. Your paragon stats are practically given "skill" points that automatically invest into your character making it stronger in a way you don't want or want whether you like it or not, just in a path that you have no control over. SmH


Look it would not be true customization. I was showing what I and probably the majority of players would do. Since it is easy to get decent gear with enough main stat/vit so the formula that I gave would work if it were manual. That makes spending them too simple.

In order for a manual system to work it has the have way more depth than even D2. A system of stats, where you have more of them than D2 and this game. Where you have way more points to spend per level. A system where if I were to choose one defensive stat and you another it would not matter. Because in the end result would be about the same. The only difference is in the play style. That is the type of system that any rpg needs to come up with. But alas I have not seen one that can do just that.



MMO's by their nature are designed to receive regular updates and like the CM said this is not an MMO so that is more than self explanatory. Did the first two Diablos receive regular updates every three months or so. Nope, they did not in fact some of the patches for D2 took years before they were out. The same argument can be made for D2 as well. I mean they keep selling that game and it is free to play like Guild Wars 1 is so by rights D2 should have free constant updates like an MMO, right.


Farmville receives more content updates than Diablo III and operates only on micro transactions.

Angry Birds receives more content updates than Diablo III and has no micro transactions or subscriptions.

Path of Exile is planned to be free to play, no subscriptions and no initial cost.

Also, Diablo II did not need regular content updates because unlike Diablo III it was a much more complete game when released, with a robust endgame item hunt and experience grind, a meaningful stat and skill system that offered far more immersion and a better RPG experience, and that offered infinitely more replayability due to those systems as well as the much truer randomized maps.


Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.

Angry Birds looks like they are in Beta so there is no word on whether it is entirely free or not.

Farmville can no doubt run on microtransactions alone due to be such a cheap and easy game to make. Just look at the graphics and tell me how much more money you think a game like this takes to make more content for.

D2 on the other hand had more content only with the expansion. But let me ask you some questions. Do you really think that the players would've hated Blizz North if they added more content to the game.

Maybe adding in secret dungeons that would be able to give a real challenge to those level 99's that have godly gear? Two uber quests is all they could come up with.

What were they too lazy and did not want to make more for the game? Brother Laz of Median made over 30 for his mod. That IMO would make me feel ashamed having one player made mod that beats my game in having enough content to challenge the hardcore crowd.

Would it be bad if Blizz North released new uniques that would be on par with the runewords that everyone used at endgame?

What about buffing some uniques and sets to be on par with some of the runewords in the game?

Runewords became the new sought after items for most of the classes and builds.

What they couldn't came up with a shared stash? But plug Y gave players a shared stash. Heck I would've found a way to copy plug Y and add it into my game if I was Blizz North.

Tell me If I made a feature that is like plug Y part of D2 would the fans of D2 hate me for doing something like that?

Sure the above might not have been needed but it sure would've been appreciated if they did do something like the above.
Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.


PoE's an MMO? Since when? Last I played (yesterday), it was about as much an MMO as D2. ShadowAegis the master of nonsense strikes again.

D2 on the other hand had more content only with the expansion. But let me ask you some questions. Do you really think that the players would've hated Blizz North if they added more content to the game.


Agreed, they didn't add too much content. Want to know why? They didn't need to. Character customization allows for far, far greater replayability than none. But of course, you already know this, you simply love the sound of your own voice.

Would it be bad if Blizz North released new uniques that would be on par with the runewords that everyone used at endgame?

What about buffing some uniques and sets to be on par with some of the runewords in the game?


Mm, would have been nice, can never have too many items, provided they don't flood the market and make gearing up pointless.

But D2 already had a nice "tiering" of uniques/runewords for gearing up, with the odd amazing rare thrown in. You'd start off with an entry level unique, probably with a fairly low level req, and work your way up. For each character. And your build would really start to shine as you did so.
Farmville receives more content updates than Diablo III and operates only on micro transactions.

Angry Birds receives more content updates than Diablo III and has no micro transactions or subscriptions.

Path of Exile is planned to be free to play, no subscriptions and no initial cost.

Also, Diablo II did not need regular content updates because unlike Diablo III it was a much more complete game when released, with a robust endgame item hunt and experience grind, a meaningful stat and skill system that offered far more immersion and a better RPG experience, and that offered infinitely more replayability due to those systems as well as the much truer randomized maps.


Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.[/quote]

Path of Exile is free. It is an Action RPG just like Diablo and the multiplayer functions just like it because despite all players being on one world server, everything is instanced. Did I mention that it is free? Oh, right. It's free. It being an MMO hurts your argument.

Angry Birds looks like they are in Beta so there is no word on whether it is entirely free or not.
Umm, what?

Farmville can no doubt run on microtransactions alone due to be such a cheap and easy game to make. Just look at the graphics and tell me how much more money you think a game like this takes to make more content for.


Like those new graphics used for the new content like the Infernal Machine? Those totally new areas and new monsters with new mechanics and new models. Oh, wait.

D2 on the other hand had more content only with the expansion. But let me ask you some questions. Do you really think that the players would've hated Blizz North if they added more content to the game.

Maybe adding in secret dungeons that would be able to give a real challenge to those level 99's that have godly gear? Two uber quests is all they could come up with.

What were they too lazy and did not want to make more for the game? Brother Laz of Median made over 30 for his mod. That IMO would make me feel ashamed having one player made mod that beats my game in having enough content to challenge the hardcore crowd.

Would it be bad if Blizz North released new uniques that would be on par with the runewords that everyone used at endgame?

What about buffing some uniques and sets to be on par with some of the runewords in the game?

Runewords became the new sought after items for most of the classes and builds.

What they couldn't came up with a shared stash? But plug Y gave players a shared stash. Heck I would've found a way to copy plug Y and add it into my game if I was Blizz North.

Tell me If I made a feature that is like plug Y part of D2 would the fans of D2 hate me for doing something like that?

Sure the above might not have been needed but it sure would've been appreciated if they did do something like the above.


And, with two measly 'content' updates (ubers), Diablo II lasted over a decade. Diablo III, less than a year old, has had several major content updates and is still hemorrhaging.
01/14/2013 04:00 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.


LMAO. Path of Exile is so not an MMO. D3 is more of an MMO


Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.


Path of Exile is free. It is an Action RPG just like Diablo and the multiplayer functions just like it because despite all players being on one world server, everything is instanced. Did I mention that it is free? Oh, right. It's free. It being an MMO hurts your argument.

Angry Birds looks like they are in Beta so there is no word on whether it is entirely free or not.
Umm, what?

Farmville can no doubt run on microtransactions alone due to be such a cheap and easy game to make. Just look at the graphics and tell me how much more money you think a game like this takes to make more content for.


Like those new graphics used for the new content like the Infernal Machine? Those totally new areas and new monsters with new mechanics and new models. Oh, wait.

D2 on the other hand had more content only with the expansion. But let me ask you some questions. Do you really think that the players would've hated Blizz North if they added more content to the game.

Maybe adding in secret dungeons that would be able to give a real challenge to those level 99's that have godly gear? Two uber quests is all they could come up with.

What were they too lazy and did not want to make more for the game? Brother Laz of Median made over 30 for his mod. That IMO would make me feel ashamed having one player made mod that beats my game in having enough content to challenge the hardcore crowd.

Would it be bad if Blizz North released new uniques that would be on par with the runewords that everyone used at endgame?

What about buffing some uniques and sets to be on par with some of the runewords in the game?

Runewords became the new sought after items for most of the classes and builds.

What they couldn't came up with a shared stash? But plug Y gave players a shared stash. Heck I would've found a way to copy plug Y and add it into my game if I was Blizz North.

Tell me If I made a feature that is like plug Y part of D2 would the fans of D2 hate me for doing something like that?

Sure the above might not have been needed but it sure would've been appreciated if they did do something like the above.


And, with two measly 'content' updates (ubers), Diablo II lasted over a decade. Diablo III, less than a year old, has had several major content updates and is still hemorrhaging.


Okay then since it was not needed I guess what I mentioned would not be appreciated. So only new content in a game would be good only if it is needed. Okay then that would work for games that have been around for years like Everquest 1 and 2 and WoW right. They do not need anything new right.

There is a big difference between being needed and appreciated. That is what I was saying about the questions in D2.

Where does it say that everything is instanced please show me because I just cannot find it.

Oh btw I guess your right it only takes $100 to make new content for this game right. Where as it does not cost hardly a penny for farmville.

Mind asking Brother Laz of GGG how much money it takes to design new unique gear and then you will understand just how much it really costs Mith.
01/14/2013 04:22 PMPosted by ThePMRC
Path of Exile is an MMO this game is not an MMO.


LMAO. Path of Exile is so not an MMO. D3 is more of an MMO


01/14/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Stiflah
PoE's an MMO? Since when? Last I played (yesterday), it was about as much an MMO as D2. ShadowAegis the master of nonsense strikes again.


Answer me this question.

Does Path of Exile have a persistent world that is shared by many players at the same time. Where you can meet and team up with other players. If so then it is an MMO. Having a persistent world is what an MMO is all about.
With all the cuts they take from AH transactions, you would think they could afford to churn out content. Unless it all goes to maintaining the always-online "experience".

Which I might add, has yet to convince me.
01/14/2013 06:15 PMPosted by ShadowAegis


LMAO. Path of Exile is so not an MMO. D3 is more of an MMO


01/14/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Stiflah
PoE's an MMO? Since when? Last I played (yesterday), it was about as much an MMO as D2. ShadowAegis the master of nonsense strikes again.


Answer me this question.

Does Path of Exile have a persistent world that is shared by many players at the same time. Where you can meet and team up with other players. If so then it is an MMO. Having a persistent world is what an MMO is all about.


It does NOT. It works very much the same way Diablo 3's online functions.

And who CARES if it's an MMO or not. Valve adds free content to their games and none of them are even CLOSE to being an MMO.

THe point is Blizzard has a constant revenue source called the RMAH (micro transactions in other games). This alone should justify ongoing content development.

Lets also not forget the whole game is designed to push you to spend 1000's of hours on ONE character. Much like an MMO.

The simple fact is, Blizzard has an archaic old fashioned business plan = Boxed copy and DONE.

This is 2013. Things are different in the gaming industry since Diablo 2. People wouldn't be asking for continued content if the game wasn't set up in a way that would easily facilitate it AND have such a lack of content in the base game.
I think I am going to take this possible opportunity to get some of my questions answered.

While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

Because respecing is completely unheard of and entirely out of the question? Did this thought never cross your mind? At max level, what are you trying to achieve by limiting access to skills (6 on the hotbar)? Why is the process for swapping out skills and runes so long and drawn out? If D2 had "artificial complexity" that millions understood and were fine with, why did you feel that removing it from D3 would make D3 better? I don't understand how you can remove something from the equation and assume its better. How does any of this add to the feel of the game?


We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.

You say you want players to experiment but limit us to a handful (6 on hotbar) and penalize us for doing so (loosing valor and a long cd if we do it out of town)...how is this encouragement? What was wrong with the D2 style of skill swapping (hotkeying skills via F1-9)?

Personally, I think if you guys wanted some sort of limitation on skill swapping, is should be done with runes, not skills. Let us use our full skill set and hotkey skills for swapping but force us to do the long drawn out process for changing runes (because there are 5 "talents" for each skill anyways).

While you do allow us to theoretically have all of our abilities (instead of allocating points into a certain few), you only allow us to use a handful at a time which is basically the same thing as only giving us 6 "stat" points with unlimited and free re-specing. And as far as I can see, runes are basically a 5 point talent tree for each skill. So the first quote doesn't make any sense to me.

If you haven’t played in a few months, you might have missed out on some of the item improvements we’ve made along the way. In terms of patch 1.0.4, you might want to check out the blog we did regarding [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923457/104_Legendary_Item_Improvements-8_14_2012"]Legendary Item Improvements[/url] as well as the various overall item improvements we made in [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/"]patch 1.0.5[/url].
Except that your itemization is borked from the get go. No matter what you do, all items will still be lackluster. Why are the irrelevant stats on weapons (+elemental damage)? Why did you allow adding +intel on mighty belts, +str on quivers, +intel on spirit stones, +dex/str on wizard hats and orbs, and +str/dex on voodoo masks and mojo's?
01/14/2013 04:00 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look it would not be true customization. I was showing what I and probably the majority of players would do. Since it is easy to get decent gear with enough main stat/vit so the formula that I gave would work if it were manual. That makes spending them too simple.


What is true customization then? AFAIK customization IS true customization. Adding the prefix of true doesn't really enhance or redefine its definition in any way.

In terms of skills D2 just has a lot more. and D3 has less but that less can be adjusted repeatedly, D3 range is small but can be fixed over and over like a water leak that just never stops. D2 huge range but never leaks and can never be adjusted until you eat a re-spec pot or something.

In terms of stats D3 has no customization, D2 it may be manually allocated and everyone might invest in that optimal path but it's customization nonetheless just because of choice. Whether you want to make joke builds or misplace stats intentionally or unintentionally that is a choice that concluded with the player's mindset that they wanted that stat that way which is personally tailored to what they wanted which is customization as you have it. Only real customization D3 has is changing equipment really. But D2 has that also so... equivalent arguments don't really go anywhere.

Bottomline is: Can't have anything personally tailored/customized if you don't even decide upon it.
With all the cuts they take from AH transactions, you would think they could afford to churn out content. Unless it all goes to maintaining the always-online "experience".

Which I might add, has yet to convince me.


It's nothing to do with if they can afford too or not. They can. It's a question of their "business plan". Blizzard was extremely short sighted with their business model for diablo 3 and decided to go with their age old box release and done.

When you have competition who's going to be releasing ongoing content to their games and you got companies like Valve who view their games as services (to be updated regularly) instead of a product, you have to wonder when will Blizzard pull it's head out of the sand.
01/14/2013 06:58 PMPosted by KradisZ
Look it would not be true customization. I was showing what I and probably the majority of players would do. Since it is easy to get decent gear with enough main stat/vit so the formula that I gave would work if it were manual. That makes spending them too simple.


What is true customization then? AFAIK customization IS true customization. Adding the prefix of true doesn't really enhance or redefine its definition in any way.

In terms of skills D2 just has a lot more. and D3 has less but that less can be adjusted repeatedly, D3 range is small but can be fixed over and over like a water leak that just never stops. D2 huge range but never leaks and can never be adjusted until you eat a re-spec pot or something.

In terms of stats D3 has no customization, D2 it may be manually allocated and everyone might invest in that optimal path but it's customization nonetheless just because of choice. Whether you want to make joke builds or misplace stats intentionally or unintentionally that is a choice that concluded with the player's mindset that they wanted that stat that way which is personally tailored to what they wanted which is customization as you have it. Only real customization D3 has is changing equipment really. But D2 has that also so... equivalent arguments don't really go anywhere.

Bottomline is: Can't have anything personally tailored/customized if you don't even decide upon it.


Look the simple stat system of this game and D2 would not work for true customization.

First of all, for a game to deliver true customization they have to make sure that the optimal play style is not fully supported. Where you do not have to be optimal to complete the game. Sure their might be some areas where it might be needed, like raiding. But the leveling process and all other solo content needs to support the non optimal play style as well as optimal.

Here is an example of what I mean about customization.

Let's say you have the following offensives stats to spend points into as well as get them from the gear.

IAS
Chance to crit

Now let's say that I focus on IAS by spending 200 points, you focus on Chance to crit with the same 200 points that I put into IAS. The end result in a game I would make would be about the same. Both of us would do about the same amount of damage. You would crit more often than me but I would attack faster than you.

Next up defensive stats.

Armor
Dodge: Of course a dodge mechanic better than this game.
Resist all

One player might want more Armor, another one more Dodge and me I want more resist all. So each spend around 200 points into each. The end result would be that each would have about the same survivability. This is what I am talking about a system where the differences is only in the play style and choices of the individual player. Maybe even it would be attached to the skills in the players build like the Wyatt said in his blog.

Where in my game there would not always be only one right answer as far as what to choose.

That is why simple systems cannot cut it, only one that is very deep and rich in it's choices will stand a good chance at giving the player true customization.

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