Can't invulnerable monsters return in MP5?

General Discussion
it was turly exciting when i finally beat a mob with that affix.
The only problem I ever encountered with the Invulnerable Minion affix was simply if they managed to surround you, you couldn't do anything about it if you didn't happen to have some sort of teleport ability on your skillbar (the worst was the fallen shaman mobs, as the minions were melee, but the main mob was ranged, so would never come near enough to you to hit it if you're melee too). If you think a glass cannon complains like a 4 year old about Reflect Damage (why should I have to gear specifically for one affix?!), think what they'd do if this came back, the interwebz would implode!
No more invulnerable please, it is a waste of time.
12/17/2012 02:29 PMPosted by vexorian
I keep reading about this feature, unfortunately, I came to the game after it was removed. It sounds really interesting and cool, and I wish that, once I got better gear good enough for higher MPs , I could be able to experience it :(


I can understand the curiosity, but you really don't know what fighting an invulnerable pack was, expecially when great gear was hard to find even on ah.
And consider that there were enrage timers as well, hihihi.

At the time, I had to choose skills for my wizard based on invulnerable minions. Since I was a kiter, I needed a spell able to pass through invulnerable minions, so celestial orb was the thing, but it wasn't enough when I had to face phasebeast with invulnerable affix: oh that was legen -wait for the fear to wane - dary! And I'm not talking about inferno, because I've never been able to go past act I with my wizard: invulnerable phasebeasts, best if coupled with horde, was enough terror for me in hell.
In memory of those encounters, at this day I still fear when I encounter horde packs...
Reflects Damage affix isn’t quite where we want it to be


This sounds like you guys wanna crank it up instead LOL
I think Invulnerable Minions was a good affix, but implemented poorly, similar to shielding and its' change, if they made Invulnerable Minions able to take "damage" and "hits", but not actually lose health, so you gained the benefit of lifesteal, life on hit, arcane power on crit, fury on crit etc. from them, it'd make them a viable mechanic, challenging, but not broken so to speak.

I think they changed it slightly before they took it out that you could get life on hit off them, but not necessarily the other parts, ie. arcane power and fury etc. and that was still the biggest factor.

That'd make them a challenging mechanic that requires you to focus on one guy, but you can still use the little guys to heal yourself up etc.
12/17/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We don’t have any current plans for the Invulnerable affix to rear its head and return. We felt it was a frustrating affix for many players, and that it was out of line with the other affixes, which is why we removed it. In a similar way, we feel that the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7349425431?page=2#39"]Reflects Damage affix[/url] isn’t quite where we want it to be, which is why we’re looking intomaking some adjustments to the mechanics of how it works, as well as fixing a related bug.


Frustrating?

It gave some nice variance and was an affix which merely required a little thought input from the player.

The enigma of a design that is globe and gold PUR affix, though, that is frustrating.
12/18/2012 01:31 AMPosted by Anuhart
It gave some nice variance and was an affix which merely required a little thought input from the player.
That is if you're not a monk.

Invulnerable would have been the easiest or the impossible affix.

If you managed to get the boss at the beginning of the fight, you could lock on him and kill him, but if for any reason you'd get surrounded by the minions you were dead.

Against invulnerable monks can't regenerate spirit, can't regenerate life from LoH or LS and can't Thunderclap to the boss if he's a ranged because he would be too far.

If invulnerable was reintroduced all the monks would have another mandatory skill: dashing strike.
12/18/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Deus
It gave some nice variance and was an affix which merely required a little thought input from the player.
That is if you're not a monk.

Invulnerable would have been the easiest or the impossible affix.

If you managed to get the boss at the beginning of the fight, you could lock on him and kill him, but if for any reason you'd get surrounded by the minions you were dead.

Against invulnerable monks can't regenerate spirit, can't regenerate life from LoH or LS and can't Thunderclap to the boss if he's a ranged because he would be too far.

If invulnerable was reintroduced all the monks would have another mandatory skill: dashing strike.


And how about any group of ranged mobs?
Are ranged mobs asked to be removed from the game because as say Barb I can't heal, can't hit them, can't catch them easily? While all along they are hitting from range?
Or should they require a mandatory ranged or MS skill?

The answer is that they add variance, a bit of a challenge for certain classes and builds, as did invulnerable minions.

If you want to use us as players being locked into a build with NV, the core of a lot of issues, then I agree, the whole reasoning behind this according to Blizzard is some guy in beta who wasn't allowed to play the game in full muttered the words "remove stacks for..for doing anything" and Blizzard decided this was the only beta feedback they would listen to.

So many issues in D3, so many nerfs, so many things removed, all result from this very limiting and restricting part of their game design.
Cute thread.
And how about any group of ranged mobs?
Are ranged mobs asked to be removed from the game because as say Barb I can't heal, can't hit them, can't catch them easily? While all along they are hitting from range?
Or should they require a mandatory ranged or MS skill?
That is quite different.

Runaway mobs can be chased, when you are locked in by invulnerable minions you can't do anything.

Anyway the runaway mobs were a problem too and they have been tweaked so that they runaway les often af for less time in a recent patch.
And how about any group of ranged mobs?
Are ranged mobs asked to be removed from the game because as say Barb I can't heal, can't hit them, can't catch them easily? While all along they are hitting from range?
Or should they require a mandatory ranged or MS skill?
That is quite different.

Runaway mobs can be chased, when you are locked in by invulnerable minions you can't do anything.


When SB traps me in a little outcrop and Kulle forever stacks slow times and fireballs on me, I can't do anything about it. Unless I have what would then be 'mandatory' skills to get me out of that trap.

Remove Kulle and SB Ubers?

I think not, I think...don't get trapped in the outcrop.

Similarly, don't get trapped by invulnerable minions. And what happened if you did? You ressed and went about it differently.

12/18/2012 03:16 AMPosted by Deus
Anyway the runaway mobs were a problem too and they have been tweaked so that they runaway les often af for less time in a recent patch.


And this you see as improvement?
We are heading towards every mob doing the exact same thing, dumbing down, removal, nerfing.

When the better solution is to allow on the fly build diversity and skill choice. Those not wanting the challenge can skip the pack, or change skills. Those happy with the challenge can choose to remain in the build or swap skills, which itself can be looked at as defeating a challenge too.

You see then, they could really throw it at us, would make this game move forward instead of ever backwards.
You see then, they could really throw it at us, would make this game move forward instead of ever backwards.
You are going a completely different path than what the thread is about.

You are talking about empowering the players, give them choice and take away restictions, while the thread is about a very specific elite affix.
I prefer the chance of getting drops from minions. It's stupid to have things in the game you can't kill.
12/18/2012 04:36 AMPosted by Deus
You see then, they could really throw it at us, would make this game move forward instead of ever backwards.
You are going a completely different path than what the thread is about.

You are talking about empowering the players, give them choice and take away restictions, while the thread is about a very specific elite affix.


Really?

My point is clearly on topic.

We have seen over the months, many nerfs, removals, dumbing down and homogenizing.

Different people agree or disagree with the changes and will continue to do so as more QQ results in more changes.

The thread title is "CAN'T INVULNERABLE MONSTERS RETURN IN MP5?" which is returning one of the removals.

The reasons people ask for changes all lead back to one thing.
The reason people dispute offered solutions within the game as it is all lead back to one thing.

That being, we are locked into builds.

Every day, there is another QQ thread about part of the game, be it RD (accepting the known bugs) or the health of goblins in high MPs, or whatever, the list goes on and on, and once included inv minions.

There is one solution for all of these 'issues' which rather than outright remove the 'issue' leaves it in place as a player choice, player option. We have the skills at our disposal to combat everything the game throws at us, and more. But by changing builds we lose NV stacks.

You yourself said "If invulnerable was reintroduced all the monks would have another mandatory skill: dashing strike." The skill is only mandatory if you need to include it permanently into a build you are locked into.

Blizzard like throwing the words choice, option and build diversity around. They do little to back this up. They actively restrict players and in doing so encourage forum QQ which in turn results in more homogenization of the game.

I fail to see how you cannot see the relevance and are missing the elephant in the room.
it was an ok affix when i was running my glass cannon DH ( who was the queen back then)

but i can imagine how hard it was for melee...

frankly, i kind of miss the day when the game was really hard. it takes a full team to farm efficiently (1 tank + xdps) it took coordination, positioning, skill synergy and strategy to beat the end game... if it provided more incentives for group play....

Unlike now, everyone can choose the mp that they can melt things in. There isnt much pt to co-op except may be uber

seriously, i hope we can have mp10 ( 1.02mix) and bought back the horror of invulnerable, enrage timer and regen. Just make the drop rate super high please please please
It was literally a nightmare. I remember dying hundred of times specially those with molten and arcane affix's.
Frozen, Arcane, Molten, Invulnerable on Desert Swarms...

*Shudders*

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