1.0.7. - HUGE nerf to monks, even further kill diversit

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01/16/2013 02:31 AMPosted by Deus
Congratulations, then 1.0.7. is a buff to you. You and about the 1% of monks in this game that activate cyclones first before anything else. You will still be severely sub par to all other classes though. Have fun and enjoy :)
Look, you can stop whining, for that "snapshot" that has been taken out they put a serious buff in. You won't lose anything.


Not true. Run the numbers and you'll see it's a pretty huge nerf to monk's DPS.
I heard the sky was falling in this thread and I came to check it out.... sup

Broken mechanic is fixed and you call it a nerf? How is getting a 30% dmg buff that is SUPPOSED to only last for 3 seconds permanently valid game play? The real problem isn't what other people know about the monk class, the real problem is what you feel you are entitled to with a class that you did not design.

I don't want to hear how bad monks are or how horrible their dps is, as it never seemed like monks were supposed to be dmg frontloaders to begin with (I mean look at the passives for real). Buck up, so many of your skills are getting buffed you could possibly see other specs running around being more viable than the current cookie cutter spec that all monks run.
01/16/2013 02:35 AMPosted by AdHoc
Not true. Run the numbers and you'll see it's a pretty huge nerf to monk's DPS.
I did, I get a full buff. A huge buff actually.
^^ show your work plz.

interested to see this
01/16/2013 02:31 AMPosted by Deus
Look, you can stop whining, for that "snapshot" that has been taken out they put a serious buff in. You won't lose anything.


I don't think there was any kind of serious buff. If you mean they buffed skills that nobody uses, and still won't because even the nerfed version of cyclone build will still be superior, then yeah.

I would have never thought that casting buffs when you are about to cast sweeping wind was considered an exploit, it was all timing. It's fine they want to make it dynamic, but they need to up the % a little more to compensate since anyone who knew how the monks class mechanics worked was casting their spells in this manner. It is a nerf to all of the people who were playing monk as their main character, the ones who were just messing around and not trying to optimize their play will probably be doing 5% more damage now, assuming they even play with sweeping wind.
I heard the sky was falling in this thread and I came to check it out.... sup

Broken mechanic is fixed and you call it a nerf? How is getting a 30% dmg buff that is SUPPOSED to only last for 3 seconds permanently valid game play? The real problem isn't what other people know about the monk class, the real problem is what you feel you are entitled to with a class that you did not design.

I don't want to hear how bad monks are or how horrible their dps is, as it never seemed like monks were supposed to be dmg frontloaders to begin with (I mean look at the passives for real). Buck up, so many of your skills are getting buffed you could possibly see other specs running around being more viable than the current cookie cutter spec that all monks run.


I'm sorry for expecting for classes to be comparable. How dumb of me. "Broken" mechanic fix gimps our dps means the class was poorly designed from the get go, which is pretty much accepted through entire monk community.

@Deus - it's ok to be mathematically inapt. Many people are, you being one of them.
NP.

DR - Foresight : 18% for 30 sec
BoH - Blazing Wrath: 15% for 45 sec
Combination strike: 16% for as long as I keep punching
SW: buffed from 45% to 60% damage and from 20% to 26% per cyclone.

I'm buffed already.
01/16/2013 02:47 AMPosted by AdHoc
I'm sorry for expecting for classes to be comparable.


I forgive you
NP.

DR - Foresight : 18% for 30 sec
BoH - Blazing Wrath: 15% for 45 sec
Combination strike: 16% for as long as I keep punching
SW: buffed from 45% to 60% damage and from 20% to 26% per cyclone.

I'm buffed already.


You had all that before already, you forgot to mention the most important factor here:

-nearly +100% permanently is now +100% for 3 seconds.
Who was talking about survivability here? I was talking about options to use some other means of healing other than what barbs use, that's all.

Barbs - 3% LS vs Monks - 60 LPSS isn't really comparable in late game lol.


that gets 80% nerfed in inferno :) LPSS doesnt
Check http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592202167
eDps doesn't even differ so much. Tune your build a bit, and you'll even gain some.

I would have liked to see some more build variety supporting changes to little used skills and specifically passives though. These damage boosts to spenders is a nice incentive to use them more often - especially now that snapshotting is no longer the easiest way to dish out lots of damage - but there are still a lot of issues with the monk's skills; There are simply not enough synergies available between skills and passives, resulting in the same few builds to be used by 99% of monks.

I would love to run a Mantra of Healing build with Guiding Light, but I can't solo that because it doesn't proc on my ally, and MoH's healing effect (along with most runes) is so minimal that it feels like a wasted skill anyway. With the increased Tempest Rush damage, a coop build might run it, but if you're low on spirit regen you most likely won't be able to sacrafice a passive for it.

I would love to run a Mantra of Retribution build, but it reflects 40% of sustained damage. This means that if you have 40K life, and take 1 hit that takes half your life, you'll reflect 8K damage to one enemy. That's nothing compared to Convictions damage increase over all the damage you do - both targeted and aoe.

Monsters that reflect damage might also return a percentage of sustained damage, but their life pool runs into milions of hit points, resulting in way more damage actually being reflected. In effect, Evasion's Backlash rune is a better reflection-like mechanism than the entire Retribution skill.
Alright, let's see.

60 LPSS with a mantra (which is the only skill spamable!) generates 3k HP. With attack speed of 2.5 (achievable) you could generate 15 spirit per second. You need 50 to activate a mantra, which means it takes you 3.3 seconds to heal for 3k HP. This means 900 HP per second.

With 3% LS you would generate 900HP per second when dealing 150k DPS.

You can deal 150k DPS when you've got a barb worth about 5m? Maybe 10m? 2.5 attack speed is already a very big budget monk. Where is the equilibrium behind this LOL?
01/16/2013 02:52 AMPosted by AdHoc
nearly +100% permanently is now +100% for 3 seconds
Look, you're either drunk or trolling.

FiTL gave a 30% buff, among other buffs. So you'd actually be losing a percentage of your total buffs. And it's not like you can't recast FiTL every 15 seconds, right?

So you'd lose 30% out of at least a 48% buff (Blazing Wrath) but only for a period of time, so now you have the 30% spread through 15 seconds which is a 2% buff, so now you are at an average of 20% vs the previous 48%.

Now, let's take a 100K DPS as a base example

You used to have 45% damage + 20% on a 148K base damage. That with the snapshot gave you 66.6K on the AoE + 29.6K on every cyclone.
Now you have 60% damage + 26% on a 120K base damage and you have 72K on the AoE and 31.2K on the cyclones.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS NOT A BUFF?!?
Adhoc is right they should have just fixed the gear swapping and left the skills alone....and i don't know maybe give us a passive with damage or ls.....its not hard to understand guys
01/16/2013 03:08 AMPosted by Deus
nearly +100% permanently is now +100% for 3 seconds
Look, you're either drunk or trolling.

FiTL gave a 30% buff, among other buffs. So you'd actually be losing a percentage of your total buffs. And it's not like you can't recast FiTL every 15 seconds, right?

So you'd lose 30% out of at least a 48% buff (Blazing Wrath) but only for a period of time, so now you have the 30% spread through 15 seconds which is a 2% buff, so now you are at an average of 20% vs the previous 48%.

Now, let's take a 100K DPS as a base example

You used to have 45% damage + 20% on a 148K base damage. That with the snapshot gave you 66.6K on the AoE + 29.6K on every cyclone.
Now you have 60% damage + 26% on a 120K base damage and you have 72K on the AoE and 31.2K on the cyclones.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS NOT A BUFF?!?


No, what FTiL did is +25% to min dmg and +35% to max dmg. This turns out to be a much bigger buff than 30%.
01/16/2013 03:15 AMPosted by AdHoc
No, what FTiL did is +25% to min dmg and +35% to max dmg. This turns out to be a much bigger buff than 30%
Look, if not even the numbers are ok with you, it's your problem, not mine.

gl;hf
AdHoc, I understand you're pretty heavily invested in your class and it hurts when a patch negates any of said work, but you're being pretty hostile about this with everyone. Most of the guys here are trying to be helpful. Some folks have good numbers, some bad, but most ARE trying to be helpful.

Secondly though, swapping mechanics aren't really supposed to be legitimate, regardless of how they're used, whether it be gear, skills, etc. Sure they exist, but it's not something the developers plan on or necessarily want to be in the game. You and many other guys took the brunt of it this go around, but it shouldn't be too surprising. Saddening because you rely on it sure, but not surprising...
@Deus your numbers are wrong. Now that IS your problem, not mine.

AdHoc, I understand you're pretty heavily invested in your class and it hurts when a patch negates any of said work, but you're being pretty hostile about this with everyone. Most of the guys here are trying to be helpful. Some folks have good numbers, some bad, but most ARE trying to be helpful.

Secondly though, swapping mechanics aren't really supposed to be legitimate, regardless of how they're used, whether it be gear, skills, etc. Sure they exist, but it's not something the developers plan on or necessarily want to be in the game. You and many other guys took the brunt of it this go around, but it shouldn't be too surprising. Saddening because you rely on it sure, but not surprising...


Thank you for this post. I am only hostile to people who don't a) read OP, b) come in here ignorant.

I fully support removal of this system, as it was quite frankly boring. But what you need to understand is, that this system allowed us to dish out comparable dps to other classes - and even then only on a SINGLE TARGET. Monks already accepted being far inferior to other classes when it comes to crowd control. Now they removed even that - dishing out DPS for single target. Well not entirely removed, just nerfed significantly.

And I can even swallow the DPS nerf, but can we at least get some better healing mechanics through skills then? Right now we can heal for 6k HP per 45 seconds. That's it. There's LPSS which should work very well if it would only scale. What would this bring to monks? More healing through skills means more dps through gear. Right now monks had the ability to buff amazingly and gear for survivability (because of no skills for healing).

What they just did is we have to gear for both.
01/16/2013 03:23 AMPosted by AdHoc
@Deus your numbers are wrong. Now that IS your problem, not mine.
Please do show.
Witch Doctor Super OP....HEX, ROOTS and FEAR so sick to deal with........................

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