Seven Years in Sanctuary

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Shallow game is shallow, ban me I dont care lolz:

“D2 hardly had any depth either, it was a point and click game too after all”
“You’re just being affected by nostalgia, D3 is just as good or better”
“After you beat inferno so what if that’s it? You got your hours’ worth didn’t you, what else did you expect?”
“Diablo 3 is the best Blizzard game I’ve ever played, thank you!”
NO, just NO. Screw you guys. Below is a comprehensive list of what exactly makes D3 so bad:


* Extremely dumbed down from D2, with insulting amounts of hand-holding present everywhere. This ranges from autostats, all skills enabled, no skill levels, freespecing, restricted skill choices without elective mode enabled, simple skill tooltips, removal of almost all combat mechanic affixes, no weapon swap, 4 socketables vs the hundreds of D2, generic/boring legendaries, etc.

* Lack of social support – poorly implemented chat channels, automatched game joining only, ghost town effect (similar to SC2′s major problem with Bnet 2.0), 4 player limit = even less socializing.

* Cheesy B-movie story-telling, cliche one-dimensional characters, corny voice-acting, non-sensical/comical actions by villains, predictable twists and plotline.

* Lack of diverse character types within and among classes – no more physical/caster/hybrid – all character types now rely on weapon damage like physical characters in D2. This destroys a huge amount of itemization/gearing choices, as there’s no longer a deviation between decentralized gear (caster) vs centralized gear (physical) vs a build that needs to balance the two (hybrid). In D3, there are no more physical barbs (frenzy/ww), caster barbs (singer), or hybrid barbs (BvC), there are only barbs that all base their gear on weapon damage (physical).

* DRM online only – no offline single player, no lan support. Laggy servers, and all the same issues of botting, duping, spamming, and trade exploits present in a game that’s over a decade old.

* Crappy UI that’s designed by a console developer – convoluted to navigate, clunky, and inefficient at utilizing screen space.

* Approx FOUR times less legendaries (uniques/runewords) in the game than D2:
* 9 chest pieces vs 37 uniques + 14 runewords
* 18 swords vs 35 uniques + 26 runewords
* 6 shields vs 22 uniques + 8 runewords
* 7 helms vs 23 uniques + 5 runewords
* 7 bows vs 19 uniques + 16 runewords
It’s actually more like 20x less if you consider that all but 1-2 legendaries per category are completely worthless – low/mid-level legendaries are unusable due to a general lack of utility mechanics present in the game, and no way to upgrade the base item to the next type (which would increase base damage or defense).

* 4 gems vs 7 gems + 8 unique jewels + 33 runes + a NEAR LIMITLESS variety of magic/rare jewels.

* Legendaries are generic, boring, and don’t have the flavor that D2 uniques/runewords did. Legendaries hardly seem to have themes or any effort done to them anymore, and most are just cookie-cutter molds that have been pasted onto every Legendary item type. Randomization of 1-3 entire affixes also makes the item much less iconic or powerful than before.

* Lack of combat mechanic affixes compared to D2:
% CTC Skill on Striking
% CTC Skill on Struck
% CTC Skill on Attack
% CTC Skill on Death
% CTC Skill on Level Up
% CTC Skill on Striking
% CTC Skill when you kill an enemy
Aura on Equipped
+Skill (off-class)
+Skill (class)
Charged Skill
Fires Explosive Arrows or Bolts
Fires Magic Arrows or Bolts
Slain Monsters Rest in Peace
% Crushing Blow
% Open Wounds
% Hit Causes Monsters to Flee
Freezes Target
Cold Damage (Slows Target)
% Slows Target
Cannot Be Frozen
Drain Life
Hit Blinds Target
% Reanimate as (Monster Type)
Displays Full Set Aura
Natalya’s Permanent Fade State
Trang Oul’s Permanent Vampire State

vs D3:
% Fear
% Stun
% Slow
% Immobilize
% Chill
% Freeze
% Knockback
% Blind

And stun, slow, immobilize, chill, and freeze all pretty much do the same thing…

* The removal of attack rating (accuracy), faster hit recover, and faster block rate equates to a severe loss of having to balance such stats on gear, and represents yet another dumbing down of the decisions you make in the game.

* Much weaker bonuses on items in general aside from pure stats – less attack speed, less damage reduction, less run/walk speed = items feeling much less powerful than before and gear choices becoming much less meaningful or strategic. Set items also have extremely weak, almost laughable bonuses.

* Inferno mode is broken. It’s not more difficult, it’s just cheap. 1/2-shots everywhere, melee is severely handicapped. A number of retarded monster affixes that should never have been put in. Most builds except for a select few aren’t even viable. There’s no semblance of strategy, just having the best gear possible and dumb luck in not hitting the wrong champions. Since when did Diablo change from a game where you mow down monsters and feel like a god, to one where you repeatedly get cheap-shotted over and over again in a boring grind?

* Quests feel a lot more forced and non-optional than in D2.

* RMAH diminishes the sense of achievement of finding items. Spending hours finding a great item just doesn’t feel as rewarding when you know you can find something similar at the RMAH for a couple of cents. Although buying items with money was prevalent in D2, at least it was hidden away and not endorsed for all players to see and use.

* Farming has shifted from item finding to gold finding – mainly due to the rarity of legendaries, the low cost of legendaries, as well as gold being a readily attainable universal currency. However, gold finding is considerably less fun than item finding. To give a comparison: D2 was like playing the slot machine, each pull of the lever and you had a chance at something amazing. D3 is like going to work everyday, earning a paycheck, then buying what you want with the money.

* Outdoors feel a lot more linear, which is amplified by their completely static nature – there’s less vast open areas with less monsters at a time compared to D2 = less opportunities to kill hoards of enemies at once. The cow level – which was one of the most iconic vast open areas with hundreds of monsters, has been reduced to ponyville – a cramped twisty area with few monsters.

* No ethereal or superior items, no ability to create items with such properties or transmute it onto items you own, no gambling, no charms, no way to reroll item affixes. Mystic used to be able to do this, then got scrapped. All this just represents more dumbing down of features.

* A late game character doesn’t feel sufficiently stronger than an early game character. In D2, you felt weak in the early stages of the game, and like a complete badass in the later stages. Yet in D3, every spell is over-the-top and makes you feel powerful even 5 minutes into the game. Increased attack/cast speed are at much lower values than from D2 and inferno difficulty actually makes you feel a lot weaker than you did in the mid game.

* Lack of character uniqueness/identity/ownership – all builds are freely changeable, many builds in the late game are similar or identical – no character permanence + lack of customizability = lack of character attachment.

* Lack of in-depth customization – skills only have 1 level each so it’s impossible to specialize in certain skills to the extent you could before. You can’t specialize in builds that aren’t predetermined for you through the passive trait system. Because there are no points to allocate, there’s no more tinkering with unique builds, thinking about your build, or calculating your allocation of skill points/synergies. Although stats played a lesser extent (due to most people putting enough str to wear gear, and rest into vit), removing stats still removed some unique build options such as pure dex amazons, pure energy sorcs, pure str barbs, half/half varieties of the aforementioned, and max block vs 50% block vs passive block depending on dex allocations.

* Lack of good PvP support – not even in the game yet, but when it does eventually arrive, it will suck. There’s no 1v1s, no 2v2s, no in-game pk/pvp, no true team on team matches – only continuous-respawning deathmatch style matches on a timer. Furthermore, players are automatched by skill, so even players that are doing well will never truly feel like they are as there’s nothing to show for it without a rating system. RMAH also pretty much equates to buying power.

* No immersion or horror atmosphere – minimap with blinking dots and arrows, text messages and numbers popping up on screen for each attack or effect, annoying and repetitive character dialog every step of the way. Horror atmosphere is almost non-existent. Sure there’s “gore”, but the abundance of a bright colors, the cartoony almost surreal nature of the game, and the well-lit dungeons make it impossible for the game to scare you.

* Low replayability – no point in making more than 1 character for each class. All unique builds can be tried out in the timespan of a few minutes, instead of a few weeks. Unique builds aren’t practical in Inferno. Not enough depth in customization. Not enough depth in itemization. Bad pvp = low incentive to find loot. Bland loot = low incentive to find loot. Gold farming = low incentive to find loot. Low social support = less fun while playing. After beating inferno, is there even a point in continuing to play a game that’s no longer fun?


Face it, this game is dying. People are leaving in droves after running through the game and reaching max level. This game is just too dumbed down and too badly designed to have enough replayability to support it for the years to come in the same way D2 did. This isn’t an action “RPG”, this is an action beat-em-up – this is Gauntlet Legends online. And don’t you dare think that any of these issues are because “an ARPG can’t do well in modern times”. It can. And it’s a darn shame that it very well could have, had Blizzard not hired that clown of a director Jay Wilson who ran the series into the ground. I’m done with D3, and my respect for Blizzard has suffered a large blow. Somewhere along the way, Blizzard simply lost respect for their customers, and it’s just not right.

This kinda sums it up, while you are at it Rob could you find the once responsible for A: Forcing mouse 1 & 2 binds and the assumptions made through them, B: The person(s) ignoring mine and many others feedback about how much of an issue this controlling behavior is. One you located them you might want to find them non D3 jobs as well as it's probably one of the worst designs I seen in a game.

This day and age we have gaming keyboards and mice with more buttons than we know what to do with yet you at Blizzard seem to think you have to decide for us what buttons to use for what...
Rob, where have you been the past 13 months? You should be sad. Some of us have lost sleep over the D3 dissappointment is sad. Get your priorities straight.
01/19/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Connatic
Rob, where have you been the past 13 months? You should be sad. Some of us have lost sleep over the D3 dissappointment is sad. Get your priorities straight.

The guy publicly disparaged previous versions of Diablo and their creators, and his attitude was reflected in Diablo 3 which, no matter how you view its current (awful) state, will ultimately be remembered as another shlocky cash grab from The Biz circa late 2000s.

Truthfully, I have an impulse to feel sorry for the guy, but then I remember what a petulant ninny he has been throughout this entire process, and all I can think is "the community finally won."

My advice to Pardo is get out from underneath whoever contrived this auction house *sham* and don't let an obvious prima donna do PR even if you-- uh-- really like the guy. Snark and denial are not a good combination.

And just as an aside, Bashiok at least understood managing expectations. He seemed to really and truly listen to the community. Snark without the denial-- get it? You guys have serious structural issues.
Good luck Jay , I hope it is not too late to save Diablo from an extinction .
It's funny how many posts have been deleted, this thread would probably be over 200 pages by now.

Really now, what did you expect would happen when you put this thread up? Surely you haven't been unaware this entire time that 90+% of the community hates where this game has gone.
This thread saddens me greatly. I know that the forums have earned a reputation for rough justice, but I do not believe justice is being served by how people are speaking about Jay’s departure from Diablo III.

I am very proud of the Diablo franchise and what the team was able to accomplish with Diablo III. As a gamer I have enjoyed the game and played for many, many nights with friends and family. I’m not, however, going to use that as an excuse. The Diablo community deserves an even better game from Blizzard and we are committed to improving it. We have a talented team in place and have no intention of stopping work on Diablo III until it is the best game in the franchise.

I’m the only person in this thread who has actually worked with Jay. I hired Jay to head up the Diablo project and had the pleasure of getting to work with him, both in building the team and designing the game. He has great design instincts and has added so much to the franchise with his feel for visceral combat, boss battles, and an unparalleled knack for making it fun to smash bad guys. I’ve worked with many, many designers at Blizzard and Jay is one of the best. He has a great career at Blizzard ahead of him and I guarantee that you will enjoy Jay’s game designs in future Blizzard games.

If you love Diablo as much as we do, then please continue to let us know how you feel we can improve the game. If you still feel the need to dish out blame, then I would prefer you direct it at me. I was the executive producer on the project; I hired Jay and I gave him advice and direction throughout the development process. I was ultimately responsible for the game we released and take full responsibility for the quality of the result.

I know what you are saying Mr. Pardo but the fact is I would rather be honest with you about my feelings toward the game then try to sugar coat it. I played Diablo 2 for 8 years consistently, in my opinion it is the greatest game of all time with a replay value that goes beyond any game before or after. Diablo 3 did not meet this standard, it didn't even come close. Some of it is good, the battle animations and the physics are pretty amazing but the GAMEPLAY is quite depressing. I feel that my character isn't really progressing, I feel that the itemization is REALLY wrong. I feel that the story/quest line is WAY too linear for a Diablo game..I can run right through everything in Diablo 3 while in Diablo 2 I sometimes got lost on levels and had to spend a few minutes looking for the right way to go. I feel that I should be able to choose where my stats go, especially considering items don't even have stat requirements in Diablo 3. The feeling of "Yeah..this is MY CHARACTER! MY BUILD!" is gone in Diablo 3, everyones the same..we all seek the same stats on the same items and even trading is a snoozefest now thanks to the AH.

The video that I saw in 2008 was the D3 I was expecting, the game I bought in 2012 is some empty shell of what could of been. The PvP patch is finally coming..after almost a year..what do we get ? Something that should of been in at release..a very basic PvP system with no incentive to do it because we all know everyones going to be 1 shotting. Me and my friends heard about the patch coming and we all said "Meh..who cares at this point ? We already dislike the game at its core"

Some people are blunt with how they feel, some of us are more subtle. Mr. Pardo, Mr. Wilson..the fact that we CARED about this game should make you understand how it felt to be "betrayed" if you will, and knowing that we CARED about the game should give you enough reason to reach out to us in a proper manner rather then playing this game of cat and mouse, companies that are much much smaller then Blizzard make it a priority to interact with the community, to feel the players feedback on a daily basis and make the proper judgement and adjustments to correct what the community wants addressed, so my question is why is it different here ? At the most successful gaming company out there why is the community interaction between players and developers so limited and bland ? If smaller company devs can take time out of there day to read topics, reply PROPERLY and act on what the community deems as "poor" or "boring" how come Blizzard can't ? Its been almost a year now and I can't recall anything besides the Reddit AMAA where devs and players actually interacted..the progress of fixing what the community deems poor has been very slow, and now that time has passed alot of us have moved on and barely ever come to the forums. What you have left is players who are absolutely content with the game as it is but do not forget how many droves have already quit and moved on because of the very slow progress of fixing things and the fact the company seems to not care what we think.

Excuse my bluntness, I doubt you'll even read this but I want to be honest with you, the game is flawed at its core..every aspect that made Diablo great in the past has been utterly removed and that is why we are so hostile.
I'll talk about Jay Wilson first and then Rob Pardo. Jay Wilson had some pretty clear signals that he was not coined for the DIRECTOR function as listed:

  • Expenses coming into all the wrong places, spending more on redoing all the graphics, redesigning monsters, over-complicating backgrounds, hiring an entire army for the cinematic, and then putting 20 people to actually make the game and its systems.
  • Relaxing too much on the Blizzard policy of releasing when it's done. Seven years and yet Blizzard had to push an incomplete game release, so they could finish it on pressure, paying on a huge backlash. And WTH was that beta? Scrapped the entire game, and then beta tested only a portion of the first act because not spoiling the story is more important than having a balanced and bug-free product? Not to mention the Beta FoS that was super-lame...
  • Using the handbook of the competitor, Bioware to make a game. Eliminated a "videogamey" feature (Bioware eliminate end-bosses, Dianlo 3 eliminated rewards for overcoming a challenge; videogame 101 stuff); made an always online DRM (needless, because who cares if I cheat on my own SOLO game, not affecting anyone else, as in Diablo 2?) to control players every time; and all of that so they could manipulate people into micro-transactions, powered by frustration feelings, they can freely control by manipulating item drops real-time. Too bad Bioware have a history of failures on that handbook.

Now on Rob Pardo... With all those signals, specially the expenses reports he had access and whose work was checking it, yet still chose to keep this train on track to wreck for SEVEN YEARS???? What went wrong with him? Didn't he verified the work at any point?

For crying out loud, Jay Wilson management made Wyatt Cheng produce crap. I still can't conceive fully how it's possible to pressure and mislead a designer of the caliber of Wyatt Chang to make such noob mistakes as the Invincible Elites of Inferno at release. Or how it's possible to think that leading the programmers to create the error 37 was a good strategy. Yeah, right... A high priority AH without people actually playing to fill it is great business thinking.

And all this time, all these errors and Rob Pardo stood still based on blind faith? Let's hope this lesson did teach him that making a harsh move can be a good thing, the next time a choice he made for a lead position doesn't live to the expectations.

This is an excellent post. Every point you made matches with my own thoughts and desires for the game. Thank you.

Thanks for the praise! Now if only someone read it who has a say about those sort of things... ;-D

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