What D2 had that D3 does not.

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Wow. Another D2>D3 thread. Original
D3 is too loot dependent to the point if you have no items equipped you dps is next to nothing.
D2 since skills were based on level, you could still do something with no gear, even in PvP you could see a naked bone necro own geared players.


QFT.

This is the core reason behind most of what ails this game that gets buried in all the QQ. It's built on the WoW model that gear is everything. The difference between a well-built character with good (but not absurdly good) gear and one with godly gear is much too big.
Are people totally insane?

D2 was so infected with cheating, duping and botting, runewords were created as a joke. It was impossible for anyone to legitly find Ber Ist Jah. I found 7 High Runes in YEARS of playing. And never found 1 Death Fathom or Tyreals, or freaking half of the Paladin set.

And then there was stat allocation. Everyone knows you just had enough STR for you gear and the rest in VIT or else you were a nOOb.

The only exception was Dex Zon's, Max Block pallys, and E-Shield Sorcs.

Everyone had the same basic end game gear. Pefect shako, Perfect !@# or CoH, Perfect anni, ect..

Edit: LOL clearly you cannot shorten up Enigma. Nice filter
what d1 and 2 had over d3 was an entirely different development team.
The game is broken at the core.It is and always will be a mere gear check.The development team is in over their heads,I like most have little to no faith in them changing this game from a lemon to something decent.I think they made gear so important to drive AH sales.
01/13/2013 08:54 PMPosted by Calamity
instantly buy enough legendaries to make finding an upgrade almost completely impossible for the next few weeks/months.


If it takes someone weeks to find an upgrade for a piece of gear that was worth 100k they are clearly doing it wrong.


Really? You can farm a decent Skorn in a few minutes self-found? You can find gear capable of effortlessly farming MP5/keys in a few hours? Cause that's how long it takes to find enough gold to buy it on the AH.
Are people totally insane?

D2 was so infected with cheating, duping and botting, runewords were created as a joke. It was impossible for anyone to legitly find Ber Ist Jah. I found 7 High Runes in YEARS of playing. And never found 1 Death Fathom or Tyreals, or freaking half of the Paladin set.

And then there was stat allocation. Everyone knows you just had enough STR for you gear and the rest in VIT or else you were a nOOb.

The only exception was Dex Zon's, Max Block pallys, and E-Shield Sorcs.

Everyone had the same basic end game gear. Pefect shako, Perfect !@# or CoH, Perfect anni, ect..

Edit: LOL clearly you cannot shorten up Enigma. Nice filter


Improving concepts created well over a decade ago is hard. Strange, other companies can/are doing it..
To be fair D2 had the following that D3 does not as well.

1. A boss run only paradigm
2. Build system dedicated to 2 big skills
3. God damned PKers
4. A totally chaotic economy
5. Stat point locks making it necessary to reroll on mistakes
6. Hard for most players to find a reliable coop game
This is completely and utterly illogical. This is a sequel developed by the same game company...it's not like they are starting from scratch. Also, the features mentioned in the above post, namely that skill dps was independent of weapon dps, was in D2 upon initial release. Similarly, such a feature is commonplace is all other ARPGs as it is the easiest way to promote itemization.

Another FYI, D2: LOD was release 1 year after initial release, incorporating most of the enhancements that made that game a decade+ success. It didn't take 10 years to "fix" that game, so your reply is false on multiple fronts.


So much wrong with this. Companies don't make games, people make games. This is a totally different Dev team with a totally different take on the game. It was never going to be D2 with a graphics facelift.

The fact that Blizz updates, adds content, takes feedback seriously, should be commended. Blizzard has been made famous for this, always taking time to improve. This is not a downside. In fact you would be hard pressed to mention another company that paid this much attention to their games after their release (non MMO).


I believe that Blizz stated that some of dev team was held over from D2. Your first point is moot. The D3 team had access to all of the coding from the second game. Looking at the creature designs, they obviously used a decent amount of D2 content as a starting point, so why completely ignore some of the great mechanics that made D2 one of the best games ever made?

I assume since you failed to comment on my other points that you have no real retort. Thanks for playing.
01/13/2013 09:22 PMPosted by Mendacium
I love how none of the D3 fanboys admit that there is absolutely no customization in this game aside from gear.


The skill system is actually very customizable. Sure, not all builds will allow you to run mp10, but again, D2 was never close to that sort of difficulty (in case you're of those claiming there were 2390875230987520987 viable builds in D2, as opposite to D3's "2-build-per-class" strawman argument). More like Mp0-1. On D3 you can run with pretty much any sort of build through that difficulty, and you get to change it whenever you want at the cost of what, a couple minutes till you build nv again?

Essentially, D3 allows you to do exactly the same, without having to spend skill points into skills you'll never use, without forcing you to make a new character if you decide you want to play your character a different way. The only argument to support skill trees at this point would be the fact they allowed you to have a portion of your damage "built up" completely detached from gear. There may be several ways to achieve that with the current skill system.

In case you want to go to the amazing stat point system, that didn't serve customization either. Basically you got enough strength to carry your armor, enough dex to raise your AR to not miss all the time, a bit of energy to not go oom (for casters), and the rest into vitality. I would agree, though, autostats are a pretty sloppy and lazy way to deal with this, but it's a practical solution.
01/13/2013 09:24 PMPosted by Calamity
I love how none of the D3 fanboys admit that there is absolutely no customization in this game aside from gear.


I love how you imply there was customization in D2 aside from gear.


You are kidding me...

I had four different necro builds in D2....one of them a melee build to screw around with. The melee build required different gear, stats, and skills than the skeleton/corpse explosion, poison, and golem builds.

Skill dmg was independent of weapon dps, giving more options on viable gear. Hence, when building a character from scratch, gear was not the only variable to take into account. It is in this game, in which the options that the player has in character development is more akin to a FPS than an RPG.

Hell, even WoW, which is almost entirely gear-dependent, provides more options when creating characters.
01/13/2013 09:35 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
I love how none of the D3 fanboys admit that there is absolutely no customization in this game aside from gear.


The skill system is actually very customizable. Sure, not all builds will allow you to run mp10, but again, D2 was never close to that sort of difficulty (in case you're of those claiming there were 2390875230987520987 viable builds in D2, as opposite to D3's "2-build-per-class" strawman argument). More like Mp0-1. On D3 you can run with pretty much any sort of build through that difficulty, and you get to change it whenever you want at the cost of what, a couple minutes till you build nv again?

Essentially, D3 allows you to do exactly the same, without having to spend skill points into skills you'll never use, without forcing you to make a new character if you decide you want to play your character a different way. The only argument to support skill trees at this point would be the fact they allowed you to have a portion of your damage "built up" completely detached from gear. There may be several ways to achieve that with the current skill system.

In case you want to go to the amazing stat point system, that didn't serve customization either. Basically you got enough strength to carry your armor, enough dex to raise your AR to not miss all the time, a bit of energy to not go oom (for casters), and the rest into vitality. I would agree, though, autostats are a pretty sloppy and lazy way to deal with this.


Variety does not equal customization. What is the purpose in creating two characters of the same class? In D3, there is none. Perhaps we can agree to disagree, but I enjoyed playing d1 and d2 for years due to their terrific ability to mesh action gaming elements with rpg gaming elements. D3 is a great action game, but falls insanely short of being considered an rpg.


I love how you imply there was customization in D2 aside from gear.


You are kidding me...

I had four different necro builds in D2....one of them a melee build to screw around with. The melee build required different gear, stats, and skills than the skeleton/corpse explosion, poison, and golem builds.

Skill dmg was independent of weapon dps, giving more options on viable gear. Hence, when building a character from scratch, gear was not the only variable to take into account. It is in this game, in which the options that the player has in character development is more akin to a FPS than an RPG.

Hell, even WoW, which is almost entirely gear-dependent, provides more options when creating characters.


Only 2 builds we're efficient in PVP for Necro's especially at high level PVP. Bone+Curse build and PNova+Curse build. The rest are just time wasters if you plan to even "touch" the online community.

Also, good luck getting the pure bone builds to level 99 in Hell difficulty. I myself cannot get passed the magic immune mobs let alone kill the elite's. I took forever to grind through Hell with that kind of an un-diversified build.

You'd have to reedit the character using a 3rd party editor just to make the build more PVE friendly. Many veteran's remember that Diablo 2 had a flurry of imbalances that are most horrifying PVP rather than PVE.

e.g. tele-iron maiden necs, tele-hammerdin's, tele-frozen orb sorcs, tele-rabies wolves, and the list goes on. Anyone else notice that teleport is easily spammable on all classes in Diablo 2? lol.

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