Phat's budget Double Nado and gear reference

Barbarian
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01/11/2013 03:04 PMPosted by PhatPhoEater
n terms of raw tDPS at lower gear tiers, a stat stick dagger OH may outperform a comparably priced EF, but you lose the aps cushion and better fury gen the EF provides.


how does the EF give you better fury gen?
@Phatt - Thanks very much for taking the time out to offer some advice on my setup.

As you have picked out, I either need to spend ALOT of money on upgrades, or do multiple upgrades to get to a better place.
As it stands, my toon can do MP10 if required (albeit slowly, but he does not die). If I swap out HOTA, which i primarily use for framing as it helps kill single target elites, for OP-Crushing Advance then he really becomes a monster with no chance of dying :) I have also tried OPKS in this setup and the extra DPS works well.

I will definitely look into changing the MH for one with Crit and a socket, same as the OH, although I would need to keep LS on one of those to get around 8-9%, making the upgrade huge.

As a matter of interest, what would ones tDPS need to be in order to survive on 6% LS (3% from belt, 3% from bloodthirst).

Thnaks again, appreciate the tme and effort!
01/13/2013 12:31 PMPosted by LordZeus
n terms of raw tDPS at lower gear tiers, a stat stick dagger OH may outperform a comparably priced EF, but you lose the aps cushion and better fury gen the EF provides.


how does the EF give you better fury gen?


From my experience, I kept wrath up better with 2 weapons hitting 2.23+ vs MH hitting 2.0 and OH hitting 2.5. Running from one pack with nados ticking at 2 vs 2.5 is a big difference and I found it annoying to have to check which weapon aps they were ticking at. As I became more proficient with the build it became less of an issue but still annoying. Once I switched over to an EF OH, I never had problems with fury unless the mob distribution was bad.
01/13/2013 01:36 PMPosted by haja
As a matter of interest, what would ones tDPS need to be in order to survive on 6% LS (3% from belt, 3% from bloodthirst).


IMO this depends on the MP. I found having 15k+ hp/sec enough to faceroll mp5. You can get there several ways with LS/tDPS.
01/13/2013 02:19 PMPosted by PhatPhoEater


how does the EF give you better fury gen?


From my experience, I kept wrath up better with 2 weapons hitting 2.23+ vs MH hitting 2.0 and OH hitting 2.5. Running from one pack with nados ticking at 2 vs 2.5 is a big difference and I found it annoying to have to check which weapon aps they were ticking at. As I became more proficient with the build it became less of an issue but still annoying. Once I switched over to an EF OH, I never had problems with fury unless the mob distribution was bad.


okay gotcha. I figured it was an AS thing but I didn't know if there was something i was missing
Pho,

Nice to see a fellow viet having such a positive impact in the community, I've always enjoyed your posts.

With your huge emphasis on IAS, I wanted to get your thoughts on my barb - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Blayze-1534/hero/1775555

With battle rage, I'm currently at attack speeds of 1.9 MH / 2.16 OH and 56.5% crit. I have trouble maintaining perma-wrath on MP5, which is my ideal farming level.

I have a +0.21 EF on the MH, a sword OH, and 17% IAS from gear (lacuni + gloves).

Based on this data, how much more IAS from gear should I be realistically aiming for? Should I be looking to go all out on IAS with my remaining amulet/ring slot (which would add another 16-18% - I need the hellfire ring for xp), or would that be a waste if it doesn't get me to the ideal breakpoints? Would it be more cost-effective to instead upgrade the sword in my OH to a dagger instead of buying new jewellery?

I'd like to get to the highest attainable IAS breakpoints *within reason* since I don't have hundreds of millions of gold to spend as I'm sure you can relate. I'd like to get the most use of out my gold without throwing it away on IAS that won't get me to the next breakpoints since I honestly don't have a ton of time to farm for gold, and it seems like 99% of the drops I get are worthless nowadays.

Thanks for your input and keep up the great work!
Im not viet, but i'm a fan of the food.

I'm not a fan of that EF and hope you didnt pay a lot for it. It has low damage range and low aps. Both no-nos for MH EF, but since you have it, you should put as fast an OH as you can find with monster stats. With current IAS you arent even hitting 2.23 on your MH, for which you need 19IAS total. To maximize your IAS slots you will need 9ias x 3 and an IAS dagger to hit 2.86. If you had gotten more +aps on the ef you wouldn't need perf IAS rolls, but still need 3 slots. If you get a high IAS dagger you can get less on gear IAS. Use d3rawr to see the options.
A real interesting read. Thanks for taking the time.

I have just a quick question regarding tDPS.

Is there a problem with the calculation when the two weapons have different APS? While I was evaluating my potential purchases I found that if my previous OH sword reached 2.5 (with WoTB) and even though my MH was only 2.2 (or under 2.2) the tDPS was very similar to if the OH was replaced with an EF. Obviously in that case both hands would be over 2.5.

Does tDPS assume that you will always tick naddos off your OH?

http://www.d3rawr.com/d-5yu2l

I ended up spending a lot more on my EF than I was planning so the comparison between Set 1 and Set 3 is bigger than just APS.

I just spent 150M on my gear (pants/chest/EF/amulet/OH Ring) so I don't have much left, but any thought on next steps would be welcome.

Thanks
Great Guide.
If only it had been around when I got back into and had some cash to spend on the WW Build! I suspect I would have saved some millions along the way.
Great post phat!
A real interesting read. Thanks for taking the time.

I have just a quick question regarding tDPS.

Is there a problem with the calculation when the two weapons have different APS? While I was evaluating my potential purchases I found that if my previous OH sword reached 2.5 (with WoTB) and even though my MH was only 2.2 (or under 2.2) the tDPS was very similar to if the OH was replaced with an EF. Obviously in that case both hands would be over 2.5.

Does tDPS assume that you will always tick naddos off your OH?

http://www.d3rawr.com/d-5yu2l

I ended up spending a lot more on my EF than I was planning so the comparison between Set 1 and Set 3 is bigger than just APS.

I just spent 150M on my gear (pants/chest/EF/amulet/OH Ring) so I don't have much left, but any thought on next steps would be welcome.

Thanks


I'm not sure I understand the problem. I'm seeing a 14% tDPS difference with EF fully buffed vs your sword OH. Thats a solid increase.

Sprint nados tick at the aps of the last weapon swung. If you are WWing, the nados will alternate ticks based on each weapon. Essentially an average of the 2 weapons. If you are running from one pack to the next and not WWing, the nados will tick according to the last weapon swung.

I'm also counting 5 slots of IAS. That is the problem with low roll trifectas. You could have saved some gold and gotten cc/ias on one ring with avg dam/str and then cc/cd with avg dam/str on the other.

edit: its always more space efficient to get 9ias on 2 slots vs 7/7/5 on three slots and overshoot your aps. The excess ias doesnt help tDPS and it occupies a slot where you can get more stats. The IAS on the 3rd slot could be replaced with bigger cd or str that will contribute to your tDPS.
A real interesting read. Thanks for taking the time.

I have just a quick question regarding tDPS.

Is there a problem with the calculation when the two weapons have different APS? While I was evaluating my potential purchases I found that if my previous OH sword reached 2.5 (with WoTB) and even though my MH was only 2.2 (or under 2.2) the tDPS was very similar to if the OH was replaced with an EF. Obviously in that case both hands would be over 2.5.

Does tDPS assume that you will always tick naddos off your OH?

http://www.d3rawr.com/d-5yu2l

I ended up spending a lot more on my EF than I was planning so the comparison between Set 1 and Set 3 is bigger than just APS.

I just spent 150M on my gear (pants/chest/EF/amulet/OH Ring) so I don't have much left, but any thought on next steps would be welcome.

Thanks


I'm not sure I understand the problem. I'm seeing a 14% tDPS difference with EF fully buffed vs your sword OH. Thats a solid increase.

Sprint nados tick at the aps of the last weapon swung. If you are WWing, the nados will alternate ticks based on each weapon. Essentially an average of the 2 weapons. If you are running from one pack to the next and not WWing, the nados will tick according to the last weapon swung.

I'm also counting 5 slots of IAS. That is the problem with low roll trifectas. You could have saved some gold and gotten cc/ias on one ring with avg dam/str and then cc/cd with avg dam/str on the other.

edit: its always more space efficient to get 9ias on 2 slots vs 7/7/5 on three slots and overshoot your aps. The excess ias doesnt help tDPS and it occupies a slot where you can get more stats. The IAS on the 3rd slot could be replaced with bigger cd or str that will contribute to your tDPS.


Sorry I confused you. I am not saying there is a problem with my gear. I am really happy with the EF, I just found the results of tDPS calculations confusing.

I was just wondering if the tDPS calculation did not value having high APS on both weapons rather than just one weapon. I just saw some funny results where I thought there would be a bigger difference between two hands doing 2.5 vs one hand doing 2.5 and other doing less. I thought that it might have just been a known thing.

Yeah undestand the low roll trifectas, the main hand ring was a drop so I did not drop a heap of gold on it. d3rawr shows that OH Ring even out damages it :)

So would you recommend re-adjusting my IAS slots to try to get more CD? If I was to get 9IAS on something like my OH ring I could get a bigger CD and other stats on the other ring without IAS and still hit 2.5056 I think.
Hi PPE,

Could you confirm if my thoughts are right:

As of now, Im just above 2.5 APS on the OH, and just under on the MH, fully buffed, but without enchantress. I should try to find another 2% APS, from the pants + lacuni or rings, correct?

I understand that a cold SOJ will help heaps agst ubers, but to do that, i will lose a ring's AS, and have to wear a mempo for the IAS?

Any other thoughts on cheap upgrades?

Thanks in advance!
Hey, when you are in game next I sent you a friend request....some guy got into it with me in another topic and long story short I ended up getting 1 mill gold off him after a bet. Now I would like to donate that gold to your cause here of the budget WW barbs to be given out to someone who you feel can use it. Let me know if that sounds good to you.

Either that, or with that keen eye you have on the AH you can use it to buy a nice undervalued piece of equipment to give out.
Hello sir, im in a dilemma right since its a headache the best upgrade i have to make whilst increasing my dps further while maintaining a healthy EHP pool.

Could you please give me your expert and honest opinion on what upgrade i can with 100m budget.

Thanks in advance.
As of now, Im just above 2.5 APS on the OH, and just under on the MH, fully buffed, but without enchantress. I should try to find another 2% APS, from the pants + lacuni or rings, correct?

I understand that a cold SOJ will help heaps agst ubers, but to do that, i will lose a ring's AS, and have to wear a mempo for the IAS?


I dont like to rely on follower buffs for hitting breakpoints. If you group for ubers, you wont have her. Also, you can use scoundrel for the cc bonus instead. I look at it like using warcry. If you get decent AR on gear you dont need it and can use overpower:ks.

Your weapon setup and # slots of IAS isn't optimal. You are using 5 slots of IAS to hit 2.23/2.5. Using a 1.4aps IAS axe would have put you at 2.5 on the MH but you'd still need 5 slots of ias. This an extra slot where you are losing CD. If you want to continue down this path, your upgrades will cost a lot more than if you used an EF in the OH and you are sitting at a mediocre 1.1m tdps. You will be stuck looking for a 1.4 aps IAS axe with str, crit and socket which will be nearly BIS. To add any CD, you will need to buy high roll trifectas.

Hitting 2.5 on both weapons in 4 slots would let you use an SOJ without giving up your ik helm.
hi there nice thread!

i was just wondering if u could take a look at my character, & tell me why
i cant have permawrath up. even though i crit very much it seems i cant keep up
wotb for so long.

also my aps is 2.18 2.32. should i get more?
99.3k dps

i spent 120m on this gear.. was it worth it?

edi2t:-- (except shoulder, helm, amu, boots & gloves)

edit1:-- 99.3k dps with 2 passive
01/13/2013 09:43 PMPosted by Wayneold
Either that, or with that keen eye you have on the AH you can use it to buy a nice undervalued piece of equipment to give out.


I never shop for ias dagger oh but just looked and got a 700dps, 190str, 91crit, socket, 10IAS dagger for 1.5m. I thought it was a good deal, but have no idea. I'm messing around with options.

Thanks for the offer. I'll pick it up later today and build a 1m set to give away.

01/14/2013 02:33 AMPosted by RazorX
Hello sir, im in a dilemma right since its a headache the best upgrade i have to make whilst increasing my dps further while maintaining a healthy EHP pool.


You aren't really double tornado, so every bit of every dps mod you add will help your dps, cc/cd/ias. No need to count IAS slots and such. Reason your upgrades cost so much is all that vit/ar on your jewelry. You won't be able to get trifectas with ehp for under 2bil.

Your lacunis could get more cc, drop str and add ar/vit. Then you could drop ar or vit from one jewelry slot and get trifecta.

MH upgrade will need to include CD, so you are looking at a BIS upgrade there. BIS OH upgrade would be a higher dps weapon with monster stats. Even a spear would do since you are hota/rend. You just want huge big number dps. I may be wrong about the OH since I don't play hota.
i was just wondering if u could take a look at my character, & tell me why
i cant have permawrath up. even though i crit very much it seems i cant keep up
wotb for so long.


I cant comment on pricing since you are eu. However, I would have skipped an IK chest and gotten 24 move speed. I would have also reached for cc over 25 on gear.

IMO, your crit being only 23% and only having 12 move speed are the culprits. What MP are you running? if any mp under mp2 you are probably instagibbing white mobs and cant generate fury.

If you had gotten a 650-1200mh mace with 110str, socket (80%crit gem) your tdps would go from 699k to 748k. in the us this mace should cost 1-5m but prices have been rising recently.
i got lucky with my EF, i bought it for 120k months ago granted it has no socket but i went to check how much they are now....sweet jesus lol

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