1.0.7 new skill damage test sheet

Monk
ghom mp8 70M HP

1.0.6
50sec with SW snapshot (faith in the light, not gear switch), spamming overawe

Test 1.0.7
SW cyclone, overawe, spamming the following "buffed" skills
as the snapshot mechanism is removed, faith in the light was not used

1.0.7 55 sec Faith in the light + spamming overawe (same skill cast as 1.0.6)
1.0.7 63 sec Wave of Light (skill rune: Wall of light)
1.0.7 63 sec Wave of Light (skill rune: Empowered Wave)
1.0.7 66 sec Lashing Tail Kick (skill rune: Spinning Flame Kick)
1.0.7 56 sec Mystic Ally (skill rune: Fire Ally), spamming overawe

Conclusion:
Single Player game: Faith in the light is still the most efficient (though monk is actually nerfed in the process)
Co-op game: As people will still require us to spam mantra, it's not really up to us...

1. (though most of the monk already knew this) As we are no longer able to snapshot FitL, our dps gets nerfed despite the 30% damage increase in SW & cyclone. (as you can see a 10% increase in the time taken to defeat ghom)
2. The damage buff in other skills still will not change the most common monk builds (we should bring this up to the devs)
people?
edit: better

I'm thinking the PTR isn't done so this could still be very different come release (in either direction)
you don't have your 1.0.6 test times up?..this seems pointless in this state :P


I'm not comparing the same skills before and after getting buffed, but rather to point out that we suffer significant damage loss as we are no longer able to snapshot Faith in the Light
You should include a 1.0.7 test with Faith in the Light, just using it on cooldown as per the intended design of the skill.

I assume most monks now use Faith in the Light for more than just snapshotting since it does provide a very large 3-second burst of damage. This effect is obviously most useful on low MP settings where you just kill an entire elite pack during the 3-second window but I'm curious how it stacks up compared to our new options.

Also, how are you handling spirit generation? Just replacing Blinding Flash with Wave of Light or Lashing Tail Kick in the current monk cookie cutter build won't necessarily optimize them because, unlike Sweeping Wind and Fists of Thunder, their damage is limited by spirit generation. Maybe you'd get better results if you changed your Fists of Thunder rune to Quickening or swapped in some gear with bonus spirit regen. I've never really looked at maximizing my spirit generation before because outside of the Tempest Rush build it was never really worth much. Things might be different now.
i would still try it with blinding flash since the sweeping wind damage will scale for those 3 seconds, not sure how much difference that will make tho
01/16/2013 09:15 AMPosted by AnHiLaToR
i would still try it with blinding flash since the sweeping wind damage will scale for those 3 seconds, not sure how much difference that will make tho


will do once the server is back online
No, the buff to SW's damage is supposed to counteract the change of not snapshotting BF in the first place.

If you're spamming BF, you need to be doing it in both 1.06 and 1.07.

Really the best test of the change to SW's damage is using Blind to snapshot in 1.06, using MoC but not activating it. And then doing the same thing in 1.07 but not using Blind at all.

Then you'd see whether the buffed damage really makes up for the inability to snapshot with Blind.
No, the buff to SW's damage is supposed to counteract the change of not snapshotting BF in the first place.

If you're spamming BF, you need to be doing it in both 1.06 and 1.07.

Really the best test of the change to SW's damage is using Blind to snapshot in 1.06, using MoC but not activating it. And then doing the same thing in 1.07 but not using Blind at all.

Then you'd see whether the buffed damage really makes up for the inability to snapshot with Blind.


Just try Faith in the Light alone, check your dps sheet value and u'll see 30% of dps buff would never make up for the absence of snapshot capability
01/16/2013 08:48 AMPosted by danielzt
people?

Your previous estimation on FitL seems way off. Otherwise, I applaud the effort.
01/16/2013 09:58 AMPosted by Vrkhyz
people?

Your previous estimation on FitL seems way off. Otherwise, I applaud the effort.


under 1.0.6
unbuffed dps = 139066.59
with FitL dps = 231165.17 (+66%)

now who's way off?
under 1.0.6
unbuffed dps = 139066.59
with FitL dps = 231165.17 (+66%)

now who's way off?

You're not losing 30% real DPS.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592402068

Now, if there was a monk on your profile, I could probably tell you how much DPS you're losing if you just keep FitL up instead of dropping it. But I'll hazard a guess and say it's around 3%, not 30%.
Just to be clear, I was talking about the part in bold below:

The result is consistent with our previous estimation as Faith in the Light grants us approximately 60% increase damage (not the indicated 30%), while Blizz only buffs SW by 30%, resulting in a 30% loss in dps, thus constituting the increase in test time (from 50sec to around 63sec)

That's the part that's way off. Trust me, I've got a pretty good handle on how Faith in the Light works:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415601873
Uhh... what's your attack speed?! Spirit Spenders (WoL/LK) are highly dependent on attack speed and primary/rune choice and gear choices really considering there are 3+ great pieces that can increase damage/reduce cost. Sure it can get very complicated such as WoL bonus being mainly affected by critical damage. But @ the very least you can share your attack speed when making broad bold comparisons.

I'll never understand why the Monk forum peeps here are so close minded.
01/16/2013 09:21 AMPosted by Piffle
No, the buff to SW's damage is supposed to counteract the change of not snapshotting BF in the first place.


Have they said that the intention of the SW buff is to fully offset the removal of snapshotting?

I think it's likely they considered Sweeping Wind with the snapshot exploit to be overpowered and never intended to roll all that extra damage into the base skill. Sweeping Wind is, after all, a semi-passive and relatively inexpensive skill that does pretty decent damage even if you don't know about snapshotting. (I used it for months before I learned about the trick because it was still a better use of a skill slot than any of our other spenders.)
Please check out this thread on the PTR that I created that goes into a detailed analysis of the state of Sweeping Wind & Snapshotting in patch 1.07. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7591982501#1
Inna 3 and 4 piece set bonuses are junk now? If snapshot is truly taken out of the game, why build an armor set that made the most of that mechanic? Glad I gave away all my gear, else I'd be upset.
Honestly taking out the Snap shot mechanic is dumb. only a few really good geared monks could really "exploit" and get the DPS needed to faceroll MP10 like its mp3. And it was the only thing that allowed us to farm as quickly as other classes. We can't snapshot but a Wizard can perma freeze 24/7 with less gear?
01/16/2013 01:31 PMPosted by Anonymous
Honestly taking out the Snap shot mechanic is dumb. only a few really good geared monks could really "exploit" and get the DPS needed to faceroll MP10 like its mp3. And it was the only thing that allowed us to farm as quickly as other classes. We can't snapshot but a Wizard can perma freeze 24/7 with less gear?


TR build was the fastest XP build in the game and got a giant buff in 1.07. The only thing that really got hit was our higher MP farming builds which relied heavily on snapshotting. I'm thinking with skorpion sting + pet we may be able to make up that difference. FoT quickening is INSANE spirit regen. I may goto a build with FoT quickening, dashing strike (not sure which rune, using for survivability instead of serenity), lashing tail kick (sting, all the others knockback which is bad for DPS), mantra of conviction, SW: cyclone and breath of heaven or air ally or fire ally.

I've just started playing with builds an am a long way from figuring out the fully optimized build. All I can say is monks, IMO, are going to be much more fun because we're going to be hitting buttons a lot more often.
Please check out this thread on the PTR that I created that goes into a detailed analysis of the state of Sweeping Wind & Snapshotting in patch 1.07.

Nice post. In that post, you suggested this:

Snapshot Fix 1: Completely remove snapshot mechanic. Increase the buff to SW + Cyclone numbers until effective dps matches within 2-3% of live. Honestly, I would prefer this fix.

I think the effective DPS is already within 2% or 3% of the live game. I provide an example here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592402068

I'm skeptical of the claim that "the change has resulted in a 5%-10% net dps nerf to monks across the board." I believe it's much smaller than that and that the devs pretty much got it right.

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