Dear Director: returning the depth to Diablo

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this game can improve with the right changes but what you're proposing is complete game mechanic revisions. that just doesn't seem feasible to me.
01/20/2013 08:47 PMPosted by bearr
The complete removal of skill cooldowns. These simply don't belong in a fast-paced ARPG. In a game about quickly cutting through hordes of demons I can't afford to wait around for my cooldown to be up. It only serves to reduce the fun of the game. There is no need to balance around cooldowns. Skills have resource costs for a reason. I would make them meaningful. If you want to build a barb that generates insane amounts of fury so that you can spam Earthquake... DO IT!


You lost me there. Cooldowns are fun, because they add diversity to skills. Managing cooldowns is another way to play some builds, removing them would make the game simpler. The mechanics lack complexity already, so...

There is less diversity because there is a greater restriction on core skills. Long cooldown skills like Earthquake will remain nothing more than support perks due to this restriction. You can't build around Earthquake because of this really arbitrary restriction.

Again, I aim for depth. Complexity is good only when it contributes to the game's depth. Complexity that only serves to limit players' options is bad. Removing cooldowns enables many more skill/build options so although it may be a simpler system the end result is a more varied experience. (I continue to use this example because from its first announcement I wanted an earthquake barb. I had a similar plan for a creepers WD (wall of zombies)).

01/20/2013 08:53 PMPosted by brkdwnxx
this game can improve with the right changes but what you're proposing is complete game mechanic revisions. that just doesn't seem feasible to me.
It is asking a lot, I know. The change in leadership is a great time to shift gears and make grand changes. I know of no simple way to solve all the problems the game has otherwise so this is the best I've got. If someone could do as well or better with less then I would gladly welcome it.
Thank you OP!

This post needs to get some serious attention. The entire time I played this game I thought of reasons why this was no longer a Diablo game. I was sad and confused by all the changes to character build customization. Over my several month playing period, and even long afterwards, I had come up with a rough idea of everything that needed to be done to fix the game. I just read your expertly detailed post explaining that rough idea. This would ABSOLUTELY fix everything.

Well done sir.
dude all they have to do is just give us this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

nothing more this is what Diablo 3 was originally.


I totally agree, this was supposed be the one we've been waiting for...

Why on earth did JW change his mind.......???
01/20/2013 11:55 AMPosted by steveman0
- Every 5 skill points in a skill provides an auxiliary bonus (extra projectile, longer range, reduced resource cost, etc.)

At first i totally supported Bliz's opinion on stat points but THAT^^^^ point is a GREAT idea. I think it would add a lot to the game. The concept of aditional effects at certain breakpoints feels Diablo-esque and I love it. Props to that idea.
Your suggestion is one, but the many good threads around here which often got run down to the ground by circles of apes and Blizzard itself.

To be making great scale of changes with a coming new director, is of course the best move by Blizzard.

However, the removal of Jay Wilson ( be it by his personal willing or forced by Blizzard ) seem like a mere move to cool the public's fiery heat.

Nothing more.

While it is true that game designing is VERY time consuming, it is not " hard ", not to the professional, certainly not to the point of " undo- able "

It is ,however seriously, VERY timing consuming.

Anyone with the right knowledge could design and build a game, however we would be terrible slow and bad at it because the obvious lack of resources and talents.

However that what Blizzard is all about. Their job is to create entertainment as a form of gaming, which they are the experts with the right resources, talents, time and money that many of us could not access to.

They should be able to do it faster than anyone of us out of the industry. That why we paid to play a game made by them.

For they are the best. ( At least to me, Blizzard is, for many years of my life )

Being realistic, no one expect major changes overnight, within a week or even a month. Some people do get lost and lose grip of reality.

Yet doing nothing or just choosing the easy way out because of " it is not as easy as you think", " It's impossible for it is too time consuming", " Coding is hard " are never going to solve the problems.

This may not be anyone's intention but the messages do seem to appear that way.

( Removing is always much easier to do than adding. Blizzard has done so much nerfing since release. Perhaps it is a good time to do some adding instead of minus )

Well there will be people saying that Blizzard has done so much since release, but is that the point?

( Are we thankful? No, some of us are not " beggars", however most of us are very appreciative of what Blizzard has done so far to response to their clients. )

Honestly, I do not think most people would ever be so patience for a game to be " acceptable and playable. " It is just a game. If it is not good, most people would just move on to the next better game.

Diablo must be really special to some of us.

I think, the real points are " are they heading at the right direction? and quick enough? "

Crawling at the surface would not help to remove the decayed roots.

@steveman0,

You do not need to react to the silly comments that border on the edge of insults and lack of foresight.

Tangling with them reap no constructive conversations. It is just a waste of your time. Most do not see, or maybe unwillingly to see that the very core designs of this game are so flawed, that it really need major ripping and changing.

It is a good start if they start using some of your ideas or any of the good ideas in this forum to do changes step by step.
dude all they have to do is just give us this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

nothing more this is what Diablo 3 was originally.

I totally agree, this was supposed be the one we've been waiting for...

Why on earth did JW change his mind.......???


Just wet my pant seeing that video again........

I don't publish my work. I make more than enough money as an engineer to spend time marketing game systems I design. Just because I can do it doesn't mean I try to make a name for myself by it. It's a hobby not a job for me.


So you claim to know about design, but can't provide proof of said claim.

Yup, just as I figured. You're niavee and haven't a clue as to how anything works.

Come back when you can prove yourself.


Can you please refer us to your wall of text where you propose new and creative ideas/solutions for making the game better?

Regardless of how much time these changes will take, they are a huge step in improving the game and need to be done if the game is going to live up to D2's reign. Rome wasn't built in a day, but it eventually was wasn't it? People like you spend more time complaining about how long it will take to do something, rather than actually working on it.
It's funny how you're not yet done with the game in hell difficulty and here you are asking for Diablo 4 (think about coding + bug tests + PTR + euqation changes + new skill system = a whole new sequel of Diablo). I like your post, but it's just too late to make another huge wave of changes.
01/20/2013 11:56 PMPosted by DrakeMunchy
It's funny how you're not yet done with the game in hell difficulty and here you are asking for Diablo 4 (think about coding + bug tests + PTR + euqation changes + new skill system = a whole new sequel of Diablo). I like your post, but it's just too late to make another huge wave of changes.


Maybe he is just smarter than all of us and saw the writing on the wall the soonest....
Please make D3 like the 2010 version!!!!!! The atmosphere, mechanics, skills, depth were all amazingly better than this 2013 garbage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038
Please make D3 like the 2010 version!!!!!! The atmosphere, mechanics, skills, depth were all amazingly better than this 2013 garbage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038


The atmosphere is there, and the animation is super. But there's no indication of implementing a skill tree with stats points and random maps, which are the main point of depth.
01/20/2013 08:16 PMPosted by steveman0
If complexity is such a threat to their gaming enjoyment then they probably weren't cut out for RPGs in the first place so an ARPG would have been a bad genre to try to enter. I don't see why it is necessary (or even a good idea) to casualize in inherently hardcore genre.


...

.........

...

Really?

Did... did you just drop the "casuals vs. hardcore" line?

I had a massive response written out for you, again, but then you said this and basically invalidated every single point you have made.

Go out and take a long, hard look at the gaming world, then come back when you've overcome your simplistic ideal of "casual vs hardcore" and redesign Diablo 3. You might even end up designing a game that's fun to play.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go and have fun by not caring about how casual or hardcore a game is and just having fun with Diablo 3 as it currently exists.

I can do that, you see, because I don't pigeonhole things into useless categories.

*sigh* And you seemed so intelligent, too.
Posted by Dutchmilk
Anyone with the right knowledge could design and build a game, however we would be terrible slow and bad at it because the obvious lack of resources and talents.

um no...

there is an 'IT" factor in great games that isn't easy to cook up.. just like good movies, a lot of good ideas can go to hell real fast when a few people drop the ball or ideas aren't well thought out.

A game can have a lot of flaws and still have that IT factor.. anyone remember puzzle quest? loaded with bugs and unbalanced play, but it totally had the IT factor..


@TopStock,

You did help to answer why i said " we would be terrible slow and bad it because the obvious lack of resources and talents "

TALENTS

Talents contribute the " IT " factor in many things. Having the knowledge to make game does not mean anyone can do it well.

So i am not sure why you said " um no " about?

Mmm but thank you for making a clearer statement.

:)
Top post OP!
Anyone who likes and agrees at least 50% of ideas should like and request sticky.

Core attributes are the root cause of the bad itemisation and the flat skill system has destroyed customisation.

@Stormo
What is your problem? Were you butt-hurt from D2?
I was butt-hurt by that game. I tried to make a Sorc (pre synergies) that was focused on Charged Bolt and Inferno. At first it was great, she was totally OP with level 15 CB in act 2 normal. Then I began to slowly realise this was act 2 normal and I was 5 levels away from maxing. Come act 4 normal, my CB is maxed (lvl 23) and useless. Why did this skill even exist?
Anyway I was happy when the current skill system for D3 was announced. However I came to realise what an empty feeling it has resulted in. My Wizard is no different from anyone else's. There is no RPG element.
You say skill tree spells don't scale well? That is the fault of the game designers. Why do weapons scale well? If they can make weapons scale to the content, guess what?!?! Scale the spells the same way (holy freaking cow what a revelation!). They failed big time to do this in D2 and by the sounds of it WoW.
Can't make an attribute system where one stat isn't preferred over another? Well in Path of Exile they managed to.

Which brings me to a point with core attributes. I have seen in previously mentioned game a clever way to approach it. The stats themselves are more of a means to an end, to be able to equip certain gear, use certain skills, provide the framework for your build. In themselves they are not the most efficient way to get life, damage, protection etc although do offer those benefits.

I hope, like many of us do, that big changes happen to this game. Realistically it would only be in an expansion for a couple of reasons:
1) Such changes would destroy the value of gear some people have spent money on.
2) We would most likely have to re-roll characters (I'm ok with this)
3) To justify development costs.

Anyway, here's to hoping.
dude all they have to do is just give us this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

nothing more this is what Diablo 3 was originally.

Indeed. I still look back on that with the fondest of memories. I fell in love with D3 because of videos like that one. I saw so much of D2 in it.


i also thought that there was nothing wrong with these initial concepts.
A discouraging thought:

The main vibe we all had when JW stepped away as game director was that he left because of the upset and criticism towards the game.
However, he is game director on a new title, which makes me think that all they see at the top of their management is that he was GD on the top selling PC game and therefore we will move him to a new title so that he can make it a best seller, completely oblivious to how the community at large feels towards his GD abilities.

Just a thought.

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