How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

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*sigh*

The problem is Diablo 3 is simple: No decent loot drops. Ever... Unless you play for thousands of hours. Then you MIGHT get something. But that's the thing... The time invested in D3 is not equal to its reward. Before Inferno was nerfed to the ground, I HAD to buy all of my gear from the gold auction house because it was impossible to clear hell difficulty at a certain point and the game hadn't given me a piece of loot since my late level 20s'.

It doesn't need to be best in slot... It doesn't need to sell of thousands of gold/hundreds of dollars... just needs to be usable and viable and 99.99% of the time it isn't.
01/22/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


Hi, another late night I see - appreciate your post sir as well.

Anyway thanks for your feedback, however at this point it's very moot unless several new items are introduced into the game (expansion). Changing it so we're less dependent on the AH when 99% of us have got 100% of our gear from the AH isn't going to do anything at this point, it really isn't, so I'd say at this point it's too little too late and move on to more important issues.
01/22/2013 11:15 PMPosted by TheCursed
B2 customization is from the guns dumb-!@#.
Talking to yourself in the mirror, aren't you?

01/22/2013 11:15 PMPosted by TheCursed
And as mentioned. RPG means immersion. Story, environment, character development, story progression through decisions; these are the main factors of rpg's.
I know BL2, I play that game but the customization is kinda 1-dimensional, only weapons and most skill points are passives or semi-passives (badass ranks are not even worth mentioning). It is only your definition, many people on these forums think that if there aren't enough means of customization like no stat points, socketables, rerolling, proficiencies and such = no arpg just "action adventure" or "hack&slash".

01/22/2013 11:12 PMPosted by Crocodilius
Also: that game is hilarious which helps.
I completely agree, it is a very well made game.
IDENTIFY ALL
A shotgun alone can do:


Ya, for Borderlands 3 i think they're gonna
have to make that stuff manual edit...
can you imagine the time you'd spend just
making ONE GUN? man...

Customization allows you to :
Kill lots of stuff in a fun manner of your choosing.
Get items that are useful specifically for your build.
It's easier to get "better" items when everyone else isn't looking for the same ones.


I don't even know what you're considering "customization"
at this point. Do you want to edit your characters hair and junk?
Also, i would argue it's easier to get items people ARE looking for,
because if they're not they probably just vendor them.
01/22/2013 11:15 PMPosted by TheCursed
And as mentioned. RPG means immersion. Story, environment, character development, story progression through decisions; these are the main factors of rpg's.
This one's right. That's why D3 is more of a arcade game where you go from left to right or from bottom to top. No choice whatsoever after you press play(choose your class).
The only thing we have is items(so development in that area), but when 99.99999% of items you find are only vendor trash, there has to be something wrong.

Without completely changing the economy of items(e.g. by changing the drop rates) IMO you should give us at least an identify all option, it's really tedious to pick up all those rares, clinging on to some small hope it can potentially be godly, and then after spending time identifying, realize that it's all trash again.
Or maybe if that's even possible, make it so rares drop less while keeping the same chance of godly rares.
(badass ranks are not even worth mentioning)


Are you kidding me? It's AWESOME "customization".
You could dedicate yourself just to elemental damage
or something. I play Salvador so i put into life and shield+recharge.
I'm sure i could play him differently with skill points AND
badass ranks but...I'M JUST A SEXUAL TYRANNASAURUS!
I personally don't play Diablo 3 because I've got Skyrim, Borderlands, Diablo 1 and even Resident Evil 4. I honestly love every bit of Diablo 3, but when you beat the game for the 4 or 5th time, the game gets stale.

Atleast it lasted longer than Diablo 2 did for me, or Diablo 1. Diablo 2 was just as lacking as the first one as the first time you beat it, there's hardly any variation in enemies.

Honestly I wouldn't have cared and would prefer if Blizzard would go back to Diablo 1 and add more stuff, repackage it and even make it more complete than it originally was supposed to be.

Or hell, make Diablo open-world, but not like WoW. A WoW-like Diablo might kill the franchise instead of make it better, because WoW is another example of 'I have X at max level, why make another character and do the same things all over?'

Most games nowadays need massive overhauls in customization. Blizzard should release modding tools and host each mod on their servers, or even take a massive series of suggestions from the community and take examples as to what their fanbase wants. I personally think most of Blizzard's RPGs lack vareity. Sure in Diablo 3 there's Many items to choose from, but there can always be more legendaries, rares, and base item types, same with WoW, and even Starcraft 2 (but jsut do like a perk system, that would spice things up o be sure).

Just my 2 cents.
Diablo 2 was just as lacking as the first one as the first time you beat it, there's hardly any variation in enemies.


You really missed out on everything D2 had.
If you didn't get to play in v1.09, especially.
Finding every item...which even i haven't done.
I think i'm only missing the paladin set shield.
That item is rarer than Jesus Christ and Elvis Presley combined.
Posted by TheCursed
B2 customization is from the guns dumb-!@#.
Talking to yourself in the mirror, aren't you?

01/22/2013 11:15 PMPosted by TheCursed
And as mentioned. RPG means immersion. Story, environment, character development, story progression through decisions; these are the main factors of rpg's.
I know BL2, I play that game but the customization is kinda 1-dimensional, only weapons and most skill points are passives or semi-passives (badass ranks are not even worth mentioning). It is only your definition, many people on these forums think that if there aren't enough means of customization like no stat points, socketables, rerolling, proficiencies and such = no arpg just "action adventure" or "hack&slash".


No, im very accurate in describing your comment.

You dont know what is an RPG. You dont know what is an FPS. You just lump everything together. I dont know who are the "many people" but sounds like they dont know what is an rpg. Customization alone is not RPG. B2 is a FPS with minor RPG elements.

socketables, seriously? =.=
This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


A little anecdote:

My WD hit a wall. I was level 48 and my dps was terrible. I went to the AH and found a level 62 wand with reduced level requirement for a nominal amount (30K). The weapon damage was more than ten times what I was currently doing. After that it was a joke.

In a normal game when it gets hard you try new tactics or make some different choices with skills. But none of that could have helped as much as for me to actually stop playing the game and play quicken in the AH instead. I realized that was what the game was now.

That was 6 months ago, and it was the last time I played. I still check the forums every once in a while to see if things have gotten better because, frankly, I really like the game. The gameplay was very fun, but I could not take that the gameplay was maybe 10% of the game and AH management was 90%.

I'll still keep coming back to the forums but you can talk all day about infernal machines and PvP, the only thing that will bring me back to the game is if AH dependency is fixed.

edit: grammar
01/22/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


1. do not add any more boa items, boa is not diablo
2. remove existing boa limitation on all items
Just a little guess on what will happen in the future.

I believe once the rmah starts to slow down to a certain point, they will implement a change in itemization. The game will feel better and the blindly marching fans will sing i told you they would fix it.
This might be a good a place as any to add my thoughts.

I still love D3 as a game but I believe the AH just makes items WAY to common. I don't feel that farming for months for an item is worth it if you can buy it for a few thousand gold on the AH.

I believe the key is finding out how to make items valuable again. Maybe the fix is something as drastic as removing the AH all togeather or something as simple as making items Bind to account on equip.
1. do not add any more boa items, boa is not diablo
2. remove existing boa limitation on all items

No.
Maybe the fix is something as drastic as removing the AH all together or something as simple as making items Bind to account on equip.

Yes.
B2 is a FPS with minor RPG elements.


Borderlands series are pure RPGs that
happen to use guns.
If you've ever played most shooters, you'd
know it usually isn't that easy to shoot things
with your gun. Since Borderlands is Diablo
with guns, you need to be able to hit things
as if you had melee weapons.
Thinking those games are FPS' is flawed thinking.
Developers will always have their own concepts and vision which they will try to be faithful to. That I really have no problems with. I also am not a proponent of them having to always listen to their customer base. But that doesn't mean that all constructive comments and suggestions have to be completely ignored. Like everything else, it's a fine balance. Sometimes they don't get it right and do want to hear from customers what issues they are having. Furthermore, there are often times good ideas which they may have thought of, but never considered high on the implementation list since something was lacking. Feedback and suggestions from the larger demographic can sometimes yield some decent ideas which leads to further brainstorming where the previous concept is actually worthy of implementation.

I know there will be a portion of the player base who cannot fathom seeing their current gear obsoleted but I believe it will require bold steps and decision making like this if Blizzard really wants to address one of the main issues players have with the current game; that is the itemization of gear, which bottom-line, affects many players perceptions when it comes to rewards aspect within this loot based game. That itself is reliant on the core gaming systems which they went with in this product where it would require a major re-design, coding, testing, balancing. Doing this at this juncture doesn't make sense; it may for an expansion where a much cleaner break can be performed when one upgrades their character to an expansion one.

And while I know not everyone is interested in a free roam, open world sort of capability, I'd really like to see Blizzard be able to provide such a mode as an option; the current quest based system would still remain the default and would have to be played through completely to unlock the free roam capability. I created a proposal a few days ago which I tried to fit within the current game design, but also realize it too may be better suited for an expansion.

Open/free roam mode proposal: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7708951097

So even though I aired my thoughts on just two of my issues, do I expect Blizzard to listen to someone like myself and do something about it? Of course not. In the case of my above proposal though, I tried to lay out the idea as articulately as possible.
01/22/2013 07:30 PMPosted by WhoKnows


If legacy and reputation was the sole factor to sales of a series. Then no game developer would ever have to talk about the sequel they are making. I mean as long as the sequel is good and a true sequel. Then they would not need to talk about it at all.

If a companies reputation was the sole factor in the sales of a game. Then the developers of the new games would not need to talk about the new games at all. Just mention the title and when the release date is set. That is all they need to do. They could keep all other knowledge about the game hush, hush.

Players do not buy games solely based on the reputation of the company and the legacy of the franchise. That would be saying that as soon as D3 was mentioned everyone and I mean everyone just buried their head in the sand like an ostrich and did not learn anymore about it until they bought it on release day. I know that players did not do that.

It is just the same as saying that any game's success is solely based on one or a small handful of features. That is a lie iMO that people need to stop telling.

Now do not get me wrong, I know it is one of the factors but never try and convince anyone it is the sole factor. That will not work on me, because I do purchase games based entirely off of the legacy of the franchise and the reputation of the company.

The way that companies can totally change a franchise (Blizz guilty of (D2 way different than D1)). So it makes sense to keep your fingers on the pulse of the game's development. So this way you have a really good idea of what you are purchasing when buying a game. Sure you will not know all of the ins and outs of the game. But you would still have a basic knowledge, which is better than knowing absolutely nothing about the game at all.


What your ssying makes perfect since "IF" your talking about a new IP or maybe 2nd game in the franchise. After 2 ...(After two knock outs)....i trusted them to deliver.


But your post is saying that it is the sole reason players bought D3, I will never agree with that. That is as bad as saying the D2's sole success was the hostility feature. No other feature could possibly hold players for more than a decade.

But you personally might not like the hostility feature and love making new characters to try out different builds. You might've loved all of the crazy builds that were possible in D2. Others might love the runewords. Others the skill and stat points. Still others the charms, more gems and jewels, potions. Each individual might like a different part of feature.

I know that everyone did not buy D2 solely because of it's reputation and the reputation of the company. I kept up to date with the development of the game and I liked what I saw. Sure I knew it would have it's flaws as all games do.

But Blizz is the type that does not cut and run like most companies do when they have made a big profit on the game. They keep trying to improve upon the product. That is their hallmark. So I knew that in time they will iron out the imperfections, well I would say that they will get rid of most. Because you can never truly have an absolutely perfect game. That sir is impossible. Because people are not perfect.
01/23/2013 12:08 AMPosted by Murasama
And while I know not everyone is interested in a free roam, open world sort of capability, I'd really like to see Blizzard be able to provide such a mode as an option; the current quest based system would still remain the default and would have to be played through completely to unlock the free roam capability. I created a proposal a few days ago which I tried to fit within the current game design, but also realize it too may be better suited for an expansion.


Dude, Skyrim is incredibly cheap right now.
I've been playing since launch, I quit for a while but came back after a few patches. This is a game that I want to like, want to play for countless hours and keep coming back over and over. For the most part, I agree that when killing and elite it shouldn't be a giant explosion of loot. I'd rather get 1 decent rare every few champ packs than 4 per pack that are absolute garbage. I think Blizz is going in the absolute wrong direction with the crafted BoA stuff, but that's for them to decide and for me to suffer with.

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