How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

General Discussion
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D2 had its share of problems when it released, it had years of work done to it before it became what everyone remembers.

We need people like you to spark a constructive conversation, good for the people overall, and the makers of the game. This post was necessary based on the player relation's history as we all seem to know.

This has made it clearer for a lot of players in general, and now that it is, the Blizz devs can get off their asses and know what the expect.

I absolutely love the DIII graphics, there's no doubt about that. What I suggested was there was potential, a darker, grungier game would've been much more appreciated for this game theme.

On the scamming, yes they have tried, but they can do better, and I'm telling them the simplest most effective way, wouldn't you agree? On top of that, I've stated that a balanced loot system is also the solution in part.

I'm not calling an apocalypse, or predicting time as I can tell the future. But based off and around the facts and opinions I've seen and heard, it's not going exactly ideal.

Not as many people are as content or dedicated as you to be able to farm 40m and call it something you like doing. Yes, they can do it, but they'd rather not, because the system is imbalanced, clearly.

There was a reason for the graph, a portrayal of the steepness of the curve that we can induce by the amount of useless drops we get. A 4 year old can surely place a bunch of dots on a sheet of paper, but they are not concluding a point or a solution or an observation by using their randomized dots. If he could, we should be surprised, that a game budgeted to perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars bought a group of developers that studied all their life to create functional games couldn't observe what a 4 year old could.

It seems like the drop system seems to be more designed by your 4 year old nephew, my friend. In fact it is, all the randomness in the drops is the reason why the bottom of the curve is so flat, everything there is essentially worthlessly random.

I don't know what other posts you've seen me post, but they haven't been as successful I admit that, and it did take me a couple of months to finalize my idea of the problem, by researching other people's points of view. I am merely reflective, showing them what everyone else that actually put the concepts into a sensible position would have said it, I'm just good at making it easy to read, I hope.

Thank you for reading my feedback.

I am glad you love the graphics, and as I said previously, I understand what you are getting at. This is why I referenced Silent Hill – it is a more famous dark game, probably one of the darkest. At any rate, yeah the game could have been darker, but clearly it has exactly the lighting they want it to have. You could take a look at the story, which is more based on hope than its predecessors. It could have been that they wanted this game to have a lighter feel so you would feel more hopeful for the hero in this story line. I mean the hero wasn’t consumed by a soulstone, and Tyrael didn’t have to shatter the Worldstone. If that doesn’t convince you then go visit whismey which is a slap to the face for everyone who complained about it in the first place. I think they did it right, and they did it well. It still has a grunge feel with good lighting, and for once in the Diablo series I was hopeful for my hero. On top of that, whatever it is, it’s not broken, go fix something that is.

Scamming, still would rather have a developer work on something else. At least in this game you can properly report, and possibly get compensated.

You are right it is probably not going ideal, but I bet you it is going alright or there wouldn’t still be developers on the project. Also in the real world, nothing is ever ideal. If you can never please everyone – so as soon as they go and make a bunch of changes that are good for some, they will piss off other.


Not as many people are as content or dedicated as you to be able to farm 40m and call it something you like doing. Yes, they can do it, but they'd rather not, because the system is imbalanced, clearly.


I had to quote this specifically again for the full effect. Do you realize what you just said? I want all the best gear, without putting in the effort someone normally does to accomplish this. That is borderline socialist. The whole point of having “elite” gear is so it establishes the elite community in DIII. By definition from dictionary.com elite is a, “A group of people considered to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent, or wealth.” NAILED IT. This is exactly what blizzard has established in Diablo III. Furthermore, the entire idea of having a market is based around Capitalism, which promotes elitism through distribution of wealth. In other words, everyone is not equal – people who work harder have more success. Again nailed it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism - if you’re curious). We don’t want a bunch of BiS items that can be accumulated in 20 hours, or even a month. It destroys nearly every aspect of the game (PvE and PvP). If my point still wasn’t clear here it is: People who are not “content” to put in hours to achieve elite status, do not deserve elite status. Period.

My comments on the graph are hopefully read by other people, because my whole point there was to argue that your graph is blasphemy. I got your point, but it was wrong. The range of items you could use in DII was far narrower than it is in DIII (hell there were even broken items in that game). My point was to refute you so people don’t believe it. As your points don’t actually come from anywhere it is biased, and should not be used to argue a case. If you played DII online, there were only about 60 items that were ever used by most people: Sigon’s Set (8 pieces?) to get to 20, or gear for hdin/smiter. Not going to list off all the BoTD, LW, gExile, Nigma, CoH, blah blah options. There were maybe a handful of people who had success with other classes. I saw one throw barb in clan GGC and my friend had an uber fury druid we made built around the ribcracker (basically smiter druid). Here my point is that there are more viable item options in DIII than in DII, and this is biased dots, it is Primary Testimony. Additionally, drop rate in DII was terrible; I think you aren’t remembering correctly. Most of the items you got that were good were from trading, and most items those people got were duped by somebody. That was part of the problem with market saturation back then anyway. Additionally, there were far more pointless drops in DII than there are in DIII. There were even items like broken daggers that did less damage than your bare fist. Lastly, I almost agreed with you on the diversity of the items, making the curve broader, but I just realized the items were very diverse in DII, but 95% of the properties were worthless, so actually there was an even worse narrowing effect in DII.

Your comments about the poorly designed drop system are refuted in my prior remarks. The drop system has actually nailed their intentions. I think you are unhappy with their intentions.

My whole point is the game is fine drop rate wise. Fix some mechanics and make more builds viable through proper buffing of other item properties. This would in turn make more items valuable/useful, diversify the market, diversify builds, and could possibly be opportunity to add some new legendaries.

Some very primitive suggestions:

Charm quest:
Not sure why the hellfire ring wasn’t this in the first place. If they had just taken that off an item slot and let you hold it in your inventory, would have done wonders for putting people’s minds at ease for finding a good item. But since they didn’t, they should add this, and the item should additionally have other class specific rolls. For example: Witch Doctor Rolls 1 of 3 properties thorns, psn dmg, mana regen; Wizard rolls APoC, MS, reduced cooldowns; etc. Each property also has a very FINE range.

Make less viable properties like thorns, more viable (make it proc ls/loh and do more damage):
As I said before, this would in turn make more items valuable/useful, diversifying the market, and diversify builds.

Add more class specific legendaries that are useful:
The logic behind this is that now, everyone is looking for that unid witching hour, or unid echoing fury. Why not add some more viable class specific legendary items that are potentially endgame but not necessarily part of a set. The idea behind this is even if you are a wizard, and find the barb equiv, you can trade unids and each roll and be content.

EDIT: +1 for Didley
Diablo is about finding gear and TRADING. And the auction house is the next logical step of trading. You did NOT find all top end gear in D2 and were forced to trade if you wanted to deck yourself out in top end gear. That is an incontrovertible fact.

If you chose to play self-found in D2, it would take you years, perhaps over a decade, to find everything you really wanted. What would possibly give you the impression this would change in a Diablo game?

Your complaints about the auction house simply shows a stunning amount of ignorance to this series and what it has primarily represented.


You make a good case for the GAH here, but not the RMAH.
I think the biggest loot problem has nothing to do with how often things drop. The big problem in my eyes is the lack of class diversity of a few legendary's that everybody on any class uses. The rest of the legendary's are pointless and unusable. If you are going to make those quality of items that is fine and they should be rare and also they should all at least have limited use not instant guarantee'd instant brimstones for most legendary's. If the exact same item was not used in the same slot by every class it would not take 200m to buy the item because it would be more geared at least towards dexterity users or intelligence or strength. Not the possibility of it being BiS for everyone. Then you could have the same armor item be a different legendary and you would not walk around the game with every class and character being a clone of one another.
01/23/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Strangerman
D2 had its share of problems when it released, it had years of work done to it before it became what everyone remembers.


So why did blizzard throw away all the experiences and success of D2 and all that hard work and try to reinvent the wheel?

All they had to do to be successful was reskin D2 and maybe add some new skill trees and character classes. We waited 7 years and this is what we got??
The Auction House is the problem, it needs to go. If it is gone, you can have higher drop rates and not have the game become broken. We can talk about drop rates all day long though, the real problem is, the game is boring. Not enough cool items with cool abilities. Real runes and runes word items, jewels, and charms are desperately needed. Random super uber bosses with some kind of super rare loot possibilities are also needed.
01/23/2013 05:31 PMPosted by Xhrix
D2 had its share of problems when it released, it had years of work done to it before it became what everyone remembers.


So why did blizzard throw away all the experiences and success of D2 and all that hard work and try to reinvent the wheel?

All they had to do to be successful was reskin D2 and maybe add some new skill trees and character classes. We waited 7 years and this is what we got??
And what about the innovation?


So why did blizzard throw away all the experiences and success of D2 and all that hard work and try to reinvent the wheel?

All they had to do to be successful was reskin D2 and maybe add some new skill trees and character classes. We waited 7 years and this is what we got??
And what about the innovation?


The graphics are a huge innovation that was expected. They didn't need to overhaul the skill trees and runewords and charms for a grab bag of mostly useless passives
balance trifecta, no one cares how.

Crit damage cap @ 100%? no, too logical.
level 99 cap instead of explosive exponential integer increases? nope, too logical.
This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


Make items lose 20% stats if sold to someone who was not in the original game when it dropped.

Also, buff unused properties and nerf the extreme multipling effect of ais/cc/cd/main.
01/22/2013 11:03 PMPosted by DoomBringer


what does this say when you don't even need the godly items you are trying to farm anymore??

wait till you see Reflect, Molten & Fallen Maniacs nerf in 1.07... you can farm inferno with blues now


That just mean they screwed up on the initial Inferno. The difficulty was there and I had most of my fun during that time trying to kill Inferno bosses (EXCEPT AZMODAN). However, the game wasn't challenging, except in a few instance. It was just unfair mechanism killing you.

Bosses should have remained hard IMO (not as stupid hard as Izual was). Elites were the ones who needed to be nerfed because of how random and unfair they could get.


izual was a #*@%%#*!# compared to rakanoth hahaha , i spent ages trying to kill him with my 24k dps tank dh back in the ol' days hahaha
wait till elder scrolls online comes out and this game will go down the sh!tter. sorry for the language and sorry to you blizzard. diablo III blows.

check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jNT5cMwxw0
Yup. And I know they wanted us not to just farm bosses like in D2 (which I kind of agree with) but bosses are bosses for a reason. They are badass and have the best loot.

Just make it so we need 10 stacks or more (all the stacks after five have no additional bonuses) to get a better chance at getting a legendary from a boss.

That way people will always end their run with a fun boss battle, but won't be able to just farm the bosses exclusively.


this is a very nice idea , it would still be random and all and youll probably get dissapointed with the roll , but its like a nice push to continue farmin , other things i see necessary are : Increased monster density on acts 1,2, 4 , ability to travel tru acts (maybe by building a device or something fun just so youd have to play a little to get it) , and new quests/events or more randomization/new maps.
Just wanted to say that I really liked the beginning of the post, but your constant italicizing and underlining is very condescending to your reader and so I was unable to continue reading. Reading it makes me cringe, actually. It's complete abuse of the language. It makes it harder to read and dilutes your points.

Might as well type it all in caps or something.
01/23/2013 05:34 PMPosted by Grimmlock
The Auction House is the problem, it needs to go. If it is gone, you can have higher drop rates and not have the game become broken. We can talk about drop rates all day long though, the real problem is, the game is boring. Not enough cool items with cool abilities. Real runes and runes word items, jewels, and charms are desperately needed. Random super uber bosses with some kind of super rare loot possibilities are also needed.


Yes!
unstablize >> *destabilize
and
defragmentate >> *fragmentize

Sorry to point these out but it could only help your cause to fix them.

Other than that, you have my support.
01/22/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Fantomex
Class specific items always roll appropriate main stat.


Amen.

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