How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

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Good points Sol.

I feel the same way, being a D2, D2, LoD player.. but I guess all of the points and suggestions that we are telling to this community won't happend on D3 and I'm guessing that even if they made an expansion it wont be that satisfying and it wont fix the game in general.

The solution here is a total reset! Because "you dont have to reboot/change a perfect game, you just improve it!" D2 is almost a perfect game.. just like starcraft 1 you can still feel the same game and feel in starcraft 2, because they didn't change the system, its more like a great improvement. Sadly, that's not the same story on D3, its more like a reboot, not improvement. But the total reset wont happen D3.. maybe on D4 but definitely not here...

Because a lot of players invest a lot not just time but money too, and some of them loss their interest on continuing to play because this:

I also don't appreciate it when Blizzard screwed myself, and MANY other players when they made the new legendaries BiS, and instantly invalidating all the previous items we bought. I am sure Blizzard lost many of those customers for life.

And as for me I'm still finding a way to enjoy myself (trying to KiLL the boring repetitious gameplay) and to justify the money I spent on buying the game.

I'm a fan of Blizzard since WC 1,2,3(FT), SC 1,2 & D1,D2 and from all the games I played, D3 its not a total failure kinda but disappointing..

So far, all the blizzard games were absolutely great! I'm kinda sad that all off those seemingly perfect games that they made, they produced a mediocre game like this.. I really hope they can still make a great game in the future and I know they can. And they learned the hard way on D3...

At the end, I still hope they can still find a way to fix D3 and make it more:
- Playable, find a way to make farming more fun...
- Challenging, I need to do something strategic or makes me use my head, not spending most of my time totally just smashing and bashing enemies, leveling up and farming loots..
- Satisfying.

I just can't stop asking to myself what happened to that game in the first video...

That cut scene of barb with cain,runes,scrolls,ladders in dungeon...Everything looking much more great.

Anyway they have gone already,all i want is fix this Auction House madness.I don't care how you do it but fix it,i want to have a chance to upgrade my gear with my own play.The game become a trading simulator than D3.
Make charms. Possibly runes/runewords. Have at least 6+ people allowed per dueling game. Allow parties, or team dueling. Bring back skill and stat customization so we can do our own builds like D2. Not so a 10 year old can play. Bring back channel chat along with being able to see your char. Bigger "area/s" to duel. Make game names to join/create/see, Also like d2. And better pvp. Kind of like blizzcon arena. And make it 1v1-4v4. I'm a big pvp fan. Pve isn't really my style, I would just go play wow for that, even though diablo is based off "pve." PvP is what made me stay at d2, and will keep me at d3 also.
Insert stat allocation to your character again and take away the + billion primary stat from the lewt and let poeple experiment some more, and also change the itemization
i should of nvr bought this game. i knew that players and blizzard would ruin it. atleast in only into it for the price of the game from the store. i doubt it will be around much longer. they have ruined the game by flooding the ah with a higher drop rate. instead of making people work to find their gear. they did a higher drop rate to shut people up and now they have ruined the game. that and come out with new content for game feels like you left off where d2 stop. new areas not the stupit uber boss that drop nothing but dumb hellfire(fail)ring. 1 more thing Stop the spam gold sellers and boting in the game. you will have better game play not lag.
Mother of all walltexts.
I was playing occasionally diablo 3 nowadays. After seeing this post and watching the video, I think I will stop for good. !@#$ you jay or whoever transformed that game in this Rmah tycoon.
If the devs are monitoring this topic, I'm going to copypasta my post from awhile back:

After all the furor over D3 drop rates, I started to think back to D2 and how I played for years and years and never found certain high runes, super rare uniques, perfect uniques, or any of the really desirable stuff legit in the whole time I played. Maybe one or two sweet drops, but nothing super awe-inspiring. And everyone was talking about how in D2 it was so much easier to find great items and whatnot (everyone has seen the arguments).

So I decided to kick up LoD and play a bit and see what was up.

I played a couple hours a day for the 3 day weekend.

First I leveled a frost arrow zon (legit, no rush).

Leveling, I found:

Angelic ammy and ring
Artic chest
Civerb's shield
Infernal Wand
Sigon belt
Bonesnap maul
Raven's claw
Atma's scarab
The Diggler
Blood crescent
Raven Frost
Eye of Etlich

Doing baal and cow runs with her, I found:

Tal's mask
Bartuc's ----------> led me to roll a sin
Laying of Hands
Jalal's ----------> led me to roll a druid
Hand of Blessed Light ----------> led me to roll a pally
Arm of King Leoric ----------> led me to roll a necro
3 IK pieces (helm, belt, weapon) ----------> led me to roll a barb
Cruel gothic bow (that's what I was using)
Tons of Isenhart's BP =(


I rolled the above classes, and got rushed on all of em. Doing cows/baal/rush on the other characters, I found:

Just about every low level unique
Tons of exceptionals, including war travs, gores, lots of weapons
A few elite uniques
Too many bonesnaps to count


Perfect uniques
All of the super leet stuff

This was all with NO MF, a FEW HOURS OF PLAYING. You know why it's OK to get rained on with sets/uniques? Because they're good, some are great, but none of them are AMAZING. That's what you keep the last few things I listed for. You need to rain unique and sets, but hold the really game breaking items to low, low drops rates.

D3 missed this completely. Everything is rare, and most of it sucks. In d2, you could use a low level unique in an end-game build. In d2, uniques and sets dropped like candy (the aforementioned list, from a grand total of maybe 20 or so hours of playing with 0 mf should show that)

But the good stuff was INSANELY rare.

That's the way it should be, and that's why I think D3 lacks that fulfilling feeling. All the drops are super rare, and they just don't have that umph to them.


In D2, sets/legendaries of the less-than-epic tiers dropped all the time, and were actually useful through the game, although not overpowered. The very powerful items were kept extremely rare, and for good reason.

In D3, everything is rare, and it all sucks.

EDIT: Change the topic title to more accurately reflect what the discussion in the thread has turned into.

Also, quoting solution:

Something I think the developers missed, and something I think is lost on the majority of people on this forum, is that interesting and valuable items DON'T have to be godly. There is a HUGE gap between, say, a bow with str or D3 Frostburns (near worthless) and perfectly rolled mainstat/vit trifecta gloves (godly), and right now, nothing INTERESTING fills that gap. What does fill it is stats. Maybe 2/3 of the trifecta. Maybe mainstat/vit and 1/3. But its not interesting. You're just hunting for higher numbers. There's no fun stuff in the middle. Its either omgawesome$250RMAH or its.... meh.

And I personally think the crux of the problem is:
Items are now stat holders which provide you all of your power (instead of manual stats and skill levels), and the game is all about bigger numbers.

What I mean when I say that is the only items worthwhile are those with the stats you need, and the only reason an item is better is because it has higher numbers on it.

In D2, items provided not stats but mechanical modifiers which amplified the power from your manual stats and skills.

Cannot be frozen
Deadly Strike
Crushing Blow
Charges of X

Those were the things you wanted to see on gear.

As items got better, they got more of those modifiers. That's what made them better.

But a death's sash (lvl6) was still highly valuable until you got raven frost due to the cannot be frozen mod.

Nowhere, in that entire list, is a single stat.

Your power came from your skills, and these modifiers amplified that power.

Now, in D3, you look for:

Crit chance
Crit dmg

lolwut? (Yeah I know armor and IAS are nice too but the above are the core affixes).

And guess what makes items better? That's right. Bigger numbers. 100 vit > 80 vit. 5% crit > 3% crit.

Which means that low level items will never, ever, ever have any relevance.

What they need to do (don't flame me RMAH high rollers) is MAJORLY decrease the relevance of stats, or remove them outright, and include only modifiers, such as:

Crit chance
Crit dmg
Procs they added in 1.0.4 legendary update

And add things like:

cannot be frozen
cannot be jailed
cannot be vortexed
Absorb element x (helloooo absorb fire! f u fire chains)
ctc mlvl63 mortar when striking
ctc mlvl63 molten when struck
ctc sprint - run like the wind when struck (every1 can fart tornadoes!)
etc, etc, etc (you get the point)

Gear = higher stats = more power belongs in an MMO. And hey, guess what, it's in every darn mmo out there. LEAVE IT THERE.

I love(d) WoW (until TBC-ish).

I love(d) Diablo (until D3).

But I love that they are totally different games. Quit cross-pollinating ideas.

D2 wasn't perfect, we all know that, but it seems like for every improvement they made (auto gold pickup #winning) they killed something awesome (build diversity).

If it ain't broken don't fix it. But you can build on it.

Anyone have any comments on the above? I would love to discuss the root of the itemization issue with someone and hope a golden nugget might pop out and a CM will take notice.

I have to cry after this video, Everything is better here than in the final product. Better graphics, good atmosphere, you can feel the fear, blood and gore. I will never play Diablo 3 again after this :(((((((

I have to cry after this video, Everything is better here than in the final product. Better graphics, good atmosphere, you can feel the fear, blood and gore. I will never play Diablo 3 again after this :(((((((

I had forgotten about this...

I had forgotten how much better the game I paid $60 for (when I preordered it) was than the game that was actually given to me on May 15th.

I call bait and switch!

Shoulda got my refund.
good thing is that by reading this thread more and more ppl are realizing that AH brought more bad than good things to D3 and that is good sing. Blizzard must act and do something about it... if its not already late

AH is the worst demon we fight in this game.. not Diablo
I think the writer of this article is ALMOST right on. I don’t believe this game is targeted at kids though. Kids do not have the money for RMAH. Working professionals who just want to unwind will pay hundreds of dollars for items to let of some steam after many hours of stressful work. They don’t have time to farm but just want to play a game and kill things without getting arrested. Keep in mind D# gets a dollar for every transaction with MILLIONS of people selling. That’s a LOT of game profit they didn’t have in D@. It is obvious the target market is adults. I would also point out many of the input arguments are articulated at a communication level far above the average “kid” . There are some very intelligent teenagers out there but the sophistication of the input points to a much more mature crow many times. Until you start seeing name calling and schoolyard insults. Then it is easy to pick out the kids from the adults. But im getting off point

The game is created for profit. D2 lost millions when items sold on EBAY. Now they get $1.00 on every transaction and a percentage of any game gold. Ask yourselves why would a server require GAME gold. It serves no purpose to charge a transaction fee unless it generates profit in some way. Common sense and human nature are at play here. Blizzard MUST be selling GAME gold in AH. If they got caught CREATING the gold and selling it they would have a “PAY TO PLAY GAME” and would be looking at major legal issues on how the game is marketed. But buy skimming gold from every transaction they can take advantage of legal loopholes and avoid lawsuits and even Tax issues.
This game is targeted at MONEY and nothing else. I personally met the creators of several best selling games such as I believe “Quake” being on of their top sellers. We installed the security system for the building. While they were a different sort of people they still had one main objective. MONEY! It was interesting to talk to a major game designer face to face. They love their job but it is still about MONEY!

As to drops I agree drops need to be meaningful. Role Playing games go pack to Dungeons and Dragons. While there were story lines it was a never ending or open ended system. It was all about getting that strange and powerful weapon or artifact. People played their character for YEARS building them up. I also saw a lot of players quit when there was no treasure to be found. Also items were based on usability. “Wizards of old” as story lines go had to invest large amounts of time and energy to make a magical item. Therefore they didn’t make random useless items. Each item had a purpose. The spells also had meaning. A legendary item or “artifact” took years to make. Maybe even a lifetime. To keep integrity in a game this thought process should be considered. However, Many low level items could be used at GREAT advantage with imagination. Even the smallest magic could help destroy a “elite” monster if used in combination with other high level abilities and teamwork was utilized.

Now before everyone starts yelling this is a video game I understand that. There simply isn’t enough Memory to hold a program or even write one that can leave combinations open ended. A computer program has to operate within a narrow area of possibilities as compared to the human brain as Dungeon and Dragons was. But they could do better at focusing real abilities and items to usefulness. Also if even some low level gear was helpful to higher level characters , more drops shouldn’t upset game balance. Consider the angelic ring and amulet in D2 they were very low level but used by the top level characters as their combination created almost godly “chance to hit on attack” Gear shouldn’t have to be level 63 to be useful. Everyone I play with ignores every blue item and almost every yellow item on the ground in inferno. No one even bothers to ID them. The time it takes to ID and sell cuts down on farming time that might produce a legendary. What is the point of white blue and yellow items if they are not even LOOKED at. There are only 6 or so items in the entire game worth having below say level 58. As the average person can level up from zero to 60 IN A DAY there is nothing below level 58 worth bending over to pick up. I have cleared my stashes of everything below level 58 accept for the few “experience” items you need such as Cains 3 pc set the unique Braces, Leorics Ring, Hellfire ring and a high level ruby.

In 4 hours of steady play mp5 in inferno last night myself and another didn’t generate a single drop worth even selling let alone using. Not a single Legendary. I have NEVER found a Green set item in hundreds of hours and hundreds of thousands if not millions of lifetime kills. There needs to be more drops. They need to be useful. They don’t need to be level 63 godly items but damn it after hours of play I would like to see SOMETHING for my efforts. This game has become a mad dash to level 60 and then farm the same ground over and over until you get SOMETHING that is sellable or useful. There isn’t even any point of ANYTHING level 58 or lower dropping as it is useless when you can level up to 60 in a day with just a few pieces of low level gear. The game looses most of its fun due to the forced repetition. This game has become nothing more then a farming/trading competition. I am forced to play a WW Barb I really don’t like just for the sake of speed of farming. As for graphics who cares! I don’t take time to look at the scenery, its all about how fast I can kill and reset the game. I don’t even look at what type of monster I am killing. Does anyone watch the “movies” Everyone clicks through the introductions to a fight. It cost too much time. Even the pick up range is about time management. With more drops but useful drops it might be worth stopping to look at the graphics and ID an item. Teamwork is made difficult as you have to have at least 20 running speed to keep up with the party killing machine. There isn’t time to pick up items along the way “that you know are worthless” as you get left behind.

The Game is broke. I enticed 9 people to play D2 with me. My recommendation generated 8 extra sales. I started D3 with 5 other people I knew though this time not on my recommendation. My daughters boy friend started with 5 or 6 friends. Out of 10 or 11 people only us 2 still play and the others have no intention of coming back. When 4 out of 5 people quit it is pretty obvious something is terribly wrong. Of all the people I played D2 with NONE of them want to play D3 based on the reviews. In every case the reason is the same. It’s Boring. Kill Kill Kill reset game Kill kill kill. Nothing dropped kill kill kill reset game kill kill kill later I’m going to play Wow, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars….. later dude. So on and so on.

There is a lot of potential for this game but not much time left to save it. It takes years to build a reputation .It takes minutes to destroy it. We need MUCH more control over builds and we need at least the INCENTIVE to bend down and pick up an item to inspect it. White, Blues and Yellow items just aren’t worthy of notice and that’s sad. Blizzard might as well just start out characters at level 60. There simply is no point other then wasting a days time to the leveling system to that level and no point of picking up a single item that first day. When the first 60 levels are COMPLETELY meaningless the game is broke!
Wait unitl elder scrolls online comes out and this game will go down the !@#$ter. the only people who will plAY IT are the that 1% who can have all the gold in auction house. BTW i have never ever ever ever found a low lvl rare to use on any low lvl characters, so i never created any other characters then a barb and wizard. 228 hours, almost 229 and i only found 5 or 6 rares only worth about 250,000 gold in AH. Nothing worth wearing on my two characters. Sorry but id rAther go smoke a j and watch dora the explorer and learn some spanish then waste the time on D3. Blizzard Diablo 3 team. You suck. You put up this forum site and still dont listen to anything anyone has to say. And The Pvp release is like almost 9 gigabites. What the hell did you put in it to waste so much time installing the thing.
i agree with EVERYTHING you said. Not that what i say matters anyways.
chests in diablo 3 wont drop entire sets of armor. but we RIGGED this one so we could show off the MOST IMPORTANT part of the game. THE LOOT. Endless stream of items my bloody butt.
01/24/2013 04:28 PMPosted by RedShift
Why are class-specific items rolling affixes that are worthless to ANY build variation of that class? Why are legendary's mediocre at best unless they roll certain affixes?

We all know items are the biggest problem with D3. (I think we do).

Some of the biggest things I have noticed are this.

1 - In D2 there were a crapload of items. Way more tiers than we have in D3. for example

2 - Stats on Uniques in D2 were not hardly at all random. (In other words a grandfather was going to roll +20 str, dex, vit, energy and it was going to roll +80 to life. There was only 1 stat on Grandfather that was going to determine if it was good and that was +150%-250% enhanced damage. And even then it also scaled with you, as you leveled you gained more dmg per level. Now the stats are more fixed on a grandfather and that was the first hurdle but now we hve another problem. D3 is all about crit and main stat or life steal or loh. So we already have the main stat on the grandfather in D3 but we need a socket (for a crit gem) and we need LoH or Life steal.. ok you can roll a socket and you could roll life steal or Loh, but you cannot roll them together. So the 2 hander of choice is typically a skorn and the grandfather becomes junk that has no value beyond a brimstone for most people.

3 - In D2 randomness was achieved more thru additional tiers of items not the stats on the particular item (for uniques and sets). It was more about getting the item to drop as a unique rather than getting the right stats to roll on an item.
I remember how happy and exciting I was when I found a legend in earlier patches... after 1.0.5 lol you know the rest...
Dev team should really put this thread in mind before releasing 1.0.7 if they're planning to pull back players with the patch
I like the diversity of items in D2 (as opposed to D3), perhaps partially due to the tier system in D2 - where there were something like 7 of every 1 hand axe, armor, helm, 2 hand sword etc. Any and all of these if found as an elite item could roll wonderful attributes. In D3, however, it is rather mandatory to find a weapon, for example, of iLvl 62+ to make any kind of progression in inferno. This also restricts your options (say on a barb we need an axe for 10% crit bonus) to only 2 graphics options for any weapon. In short, I liked having a choice in what my character looked like after his godliness had been solidified. Maybe Blizz could sever the tie between iLvl and gfx type.

Next, I want to talk about armor. I feel as though Blizz has WoW'd the hell out of Diablo when it comes to body armor. One, there is no dimension on armor when viewed in the inventory. It looks cheap, like a piece of paper with crayon on it (sorry). But number two, the bigger one in my mind, is the realism of armors. In D2 we had caps, skull caps, helms, crowns etc. In D3, I honestly can't recall any names of helms... maybe stenchelm or something. I really liked the use of real world armors (and weapons, anyway) in D2. The studded armor, ring mail, plate mail and on. Save all the WoWie fantasy stuff for WoW, please.

I'm not sure how many people agree with me. These are only my personal opinions. I do think that players would enjoy a separation of iLvl and item gfx.
New player here. This upcoming Tuesday will mark my third week and I've put in about 80 hours so far and have a barb that can go through inferno easily (I haven't yet because why, what's the point? No reason for me to 'beat' the game). I had a particular build and style I enjoyed in normal through hell. Once I got into inferno it really didn't matter what my preference was I had to change my style completely to conform to inferno for my gear level. Then of course I discovered WW Barb and while my gear can't maintain WotB for the 'traditional' WW Barb build I find that my modified version is still by far the best build I can have. Anyway, my point is I was surprised to see how my build simply stopped scaling to the difficulty. I had a balanced build between offense, defense, and utility. It really felt like the armor and the resist stats just stopped working. For example I could go from normal through completing nightmare on MP10 with only found gear using my build when I got to hell I had to drop it to about MP8. You can imagine my surprise when I got to inferno. Another unfortunate change was I was unable to gear myself with found gear. I had to break down and use the AH for the first time. My dps going into inferno was something like 3 or 4k I think after changing my build and spending something like 2 mil at the AH (few pieces given to me) I was at 40k dps. The point is I had no chance or choice to maintain my build or my desire to use only found gear. Now my upgrades are getting to a point where they are 300k-~10m per item. I feel like I've reached a plateau yet my character doesn't feel powerful. It feels like I am still in dire need for upgrades. Another unfortunate side effect of all that is I can't choose my gear. There are no choices. There are empirical best choices that I either choose or lessen my character. It's also unfortunate that I feel character progression has completely stopped. I feel like the only way I can progress is through gear aka getting lucky drops to sell. Paragon levels feel largely hollow due to the stat bonuses being negligible and I can't really 'feel' the MF GF bonuses. I'm not going to pretend I know the answers to the problems I see in the game and my post shouldn't read as me not liking the game. I play many, many hours a day and I enjoy every hour. I am worried about the impending plateau though. I think I'm going to work on upgrading all the gems to the best my JC can and getting that ring, don't remember what it's called, that is account bound but beyond that I'm not really too sure what there is to look forward to. I have an idea for what my gear should be but for example the rings I'd like cost a minimum of like 4-6m if I don't want to reduce any of my current stats. That seems prohibitively expensive to me. One more thing, I could meaningfully gear myself using the Blacksmith up until inferno. The cost in terms of gold and resources to craft the gear combined with the very low probability it will be good made him no longer a viable choice for gearing. That's too bad. I feel like to make the BS more viable I need more control over how I craft, choosing what affixes I get for example.

Sorry for the tl;dr. Obviously I don't expect people to read this. I just thought it would be somewhat useful/interesting for any interested Blizzard parties to have the perspective of a new player.

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