How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

General Discussion
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DIABLO = DEVIL

- It's not supposed to be a nice game.

- Autostats are ridiculous.

- Lack of pots is not welcome

- If it aint broke don't fix it! (Diablo 2)


preach it man, preach it

/soft clap.
where it went wrong is the end game, to farm items/gold to sell on the RMAH to generate income for blizzard...
by all that is holy i stopped reading
how about implementing another game mode and server where the auction house is disabled?
I have to say, initially I thought the AH would be a good idea. I was operating under the assumption that the AH would be used as a supplementary method for getting gear, perhaps that one piece of armor that doesn't want to drop for you.

As the game went on and I got into Inferno, I realized this was not the case. The Auction House was the primary means of getting gear, and loot drops were the means of getting money to buy that gear.

I have no interest in this system. I think it's boring to just search for stats on the Auction House. When do you go to the Auction House? How do you know your gear is not performing well enough unless you just start dying over and over again? This isn't very fun and by proxy the identification system is not very fun. It seems like you are just IDing things to see if they are valuable to sell not to use.

The affixes on gear is just way too random. I don't want "more" drops. I get a few rares with every elite/champion pack. I wan't quality drops that let me know that as I play, my character is getting stronger. Logging out to search the AH for gear feels like I'm detaching myself from the game and just increasing some stats outside of it.

At this junction, removing the AH would be impossible and I don't suggest that. I just hope it is devalued relative to just playing the game and getting gear off mobs.

"Thrilling" is not the word I would use to describe the D3 gear system.
Don't be afraid of change. Give people plenty of notice (those buying stuff with credit cards and such). Change things dramatically. Make it exciting to farm different difficulties, to farm BOSSES again, to not get more drops but to get progressively better drops.

PLEASE rework items so that it's not a lottery, but a progression.
PLEASE give powers to the skills and NOT just the gear. Although you want people to pay for the gear, i think you'll make more money on a better progression of gear!!!!


people how dont you understand... I have seen many suggestions like this ones... do this, do that, make drops better, give more interesting stats to weapons, legendary/set items, make the gear change how we play, make more viable builds, etc... but these arent really suggestions because blizzard already knew that before the game was released. The thing is that players know where is the problem but do not know why is that so and more importantly, that it s very difficult (if not impossible) for blizzard to fix that... btw im talking about itemization..

So heres the truth.. the core game mechanics (skills, attributes, the way damage works, armor, resistances, monsters, almost everything..) arent providing blizzard enough "space" to add more complex, different, interesting and better stats then just the basic ones (cc, cd, ias, all res and main stat)

Just check what D2 items can have compared to D3 items. And why D2 can have such stats? cuz it works in D2... the very foundation of the game allows items to have such complex stats...and in D3 it is limited to only simple basic ones which i mentioned above

so now you know why itemization in diablo 3 sucks... and no need to point it out to blizz, they knew that before us (i also think that is the cause of release delays) and still they are trying to fix itemization without success

and one more thing, dont blame D3 team to much for itemization problem because they probably havent been aware how limited stats on items will be until game was almost finished.. just like D2 team wasnt aware of many possibilities they will be able to make in the future:)
There is something wrong when farming brings so little or even zero reward. Crafting is also a big disappointment in that you make items and get roles so useless to the item and class that you are just tossing gold away. For the most part the AH is the place to go to look at mediocre items priced so high you can almost hear the seller say "you want it buy it for cash, cuz I want the money"
I enjoy the game, nice fast killing rounds but in the absence of any possible loot through the 'lottery' system the least they can do is add content so that I do not have to keep running the same few areas over and over for no gain.
sadly true, sigh
In my view the drop rate for leg/set items isn't completely bad, however it can be upped somewhat.

Just make it a weekend project for everyone at Blizz to start a new character in D2LoD and record how many set/leg drops happen through the first two chapters. That wouldn't take long, average out all the numbers and it would give a general idea whether you're remembering D2 right.
I have to say, initially I thought the AH would be a good idea. I was operating under the assumption that the AH would be used as a supplementary method for getting gear, perhaps that one piece of armor that doesn't want to drop for you.

As the game went on and I got into Inferno, I realized this was not the case. The Auction House was the primary means of getting gear, and loot drops were the means of getting money to buy that gear.

I have no interest in this system. I think it's boring to just search for stats on the Auction House. When do you go to the Auction House? How do you know your gear is not performing well enough unless you just start dying over and over again? This isn't very fun and by proxy the identification system is not very fun. It seems like you are just IDing things to see if they are valuable to sell not to use.

The affixes on gear is just way too random. I don't want "more" drops. I get a few rares with every elite/champion pack. I wan't quality drops that let me know that as I play, my character is getting stronger. Logging out to search the AH for gear feels like I'm detaching myself from the game and just increasing some stats outside of it.

At this junction, removing the AH would be impossible and I don't suggest that. I just hope it is devalued relative to just playing the game and getting gear off mobs.

"Thrilling" is not the word I would use to describe the D3 gear system.


D3 could be just fine with the AH's. Look at D2 and how items sold on third party sites like hotcakes with all its duping, flaws and so on. Blizzard doesnt need to design drops around the AH, just make a badass in depth system and the money will still come. I would even venture to say that they would make more money in item sales in such a situation. Imagine if Blizz would have had this in D2, Im sure thats what they were imagining when they came up with this idea.
I'm am absolutely blown away by OP's post. I'm having a hard time even trying to add to it.

I avoided this thread because of the title, felt like a troll. Man was I wrong.

My biggest gripes (loot and the AH) were spelled out brilliantly. It was like I didn't even know what I was mad at, and then someone explained it.

Please Blue, the points about the loot are huge and I agree if fixed I wouldn't care about the AH nearly as much, because most of my gripes about it would be moot.

Thanks OP.
here are some more ideas regarding D3 improvements:

gaming experience) make larger portions of the maps a lot more random. you always know where you have to go to rush through some area. most often it is even at the same place across all maps, i.e. in most of all open maps you start in south-west and you have to head north-east.

replayability) in order to increase long-term experience and reward-ness for the players, make the monsters spawn a lot less predictable, at least in inferno mode. this not only affects the overall monster density (already exhaustively discussed in other threads), but also the "monster clustering" and "urgency of situations" that player encounter while playing. nothing is less boring than a steady stream of incoming enemies (be it many or few). give them sometimes high pressure (incoming enemies of different type from all directions), but also reward them afterwards with some short phases of calmness (an empty room or yard to wait for regen timers to reset). the guys at valve had some nice ideas in that direction, see AI Director of L4D2 as an example.

economy/trading) the ongoing degradation of buying power is completely killing RM/AH. the first direct consequence is the decline in gold value. a gold and item sink is missing - be it a better crafting system (1.0.7 is a first step in the right direction) or other aspects that I will comment on later. many players blame the RM/AH, or flippers, or botters, or multiboxers, or or or, to have ruined the game. in fact, the missing sink has ruined it. in my opinion, there are two additional ways to create a gold and item sink (which will most likely also alleviate other economy related problems):
1) introduce a stat on all collectable items in the game that limits the number of sellings and tradings. it will be counted up for each switch between different players. once reached the max, it might me sold to vendor only, or salvaged. in addition, add an roll-able item affix that might increase the number of sellings/tradings, like gold pickup radius.
2) make all items (except gems, recepies and ingredients) go break after a certain amount of usage (e.g. # of repairs, # of times the item had to be repaired, # of started runs, # of killed elites, etc...). this requires a constant demand of items that will cause all items to be worth something, even those not top 0.001%. this deliberately affects those players that are playing more often: items they find are worth more than nowadays and will be picked up more frequently to replace items that are going to break soon. you might argue that this is unfair, but on the contrary, every process of potentially gaining some advantage has to cost something - beside the time cost. an example is every profession where you utilize tools that degrade with their usage time (diamond drills in tunnels). you could potentially alleviate the item degradation by (exponentially?) increasing repair costs, or by giving the blacksmith an expensive/hard-to-obtain-and-reset-after-use possibility to reset that counter: if you insist on farming with this very special equipped item set, you should spend gold on that.

[sorry, but re-post from EU suggestions thread]
The game is easy to fix, but they will never do it, either because of the degree of change to overhaul the game or out of sheer greed that Blizzard has shown time and time again with this game. My recommended fixes are:

- Complete itemization overhaul. It needs to be much less random (more focused) and the item properties themselves should shown at the bare minimum, that some degree of thought and creativity went into them. My suggestion is have cross class skills for affixes, more worthwhile DoT affects, and gear drops that are influenced by the classes playing the game. For instance, if a game has a wizard and a WD, the loot drops should have a greater chance of actually being beneficial for said classes. On this note, I think rare items should drop less, but the quality should be much better.

- Complete DPS output overhaul. Let's face it, the way DPS output is calculated is dumb. I know their initial intent was most likely to cater to dumb players who can't be bothered to think things through, but the current DPS output method is garbage. It is lazy, uninspired, and completely crap. Skill damage calculated on flat percentages from weapon DPS with a primary stat multiplier? How lazy can one get? Damage should come from all sorts of places depending on the skill and rune used. Make damage directly come from other things, like Vit, Health, IAS, ect. This will also make stats worth a damn and manual allocation viable.

- Stat points should matter. Wasn't this the whole initial crux for the argument against D2's stat system? Stats that are not primary stat and Vit should matter more for other classes if the dev team insists on wasting our level stats on them. Make dex dodge more. Let Str affect damage for other classes and not just armor. Let us move faster with more dex. Do SOMETHING, ANYTHING to make it mean anything more than the pile crap the stat system currently is right now.

- Elemental affects need to return and stop being simply visual treats. I want a weapon to really mean something when it has an elemental aspect to it. I want to be able to use elemental builds and for them to actually have purpose. I loathe the current uncreative game that the D3 dev team had the lack of foresight to release.
Great post!

The sad part is, Blizzard probably has the most dedicated gaming community and they still fail to impress, yet we all through our wallets at the screen when shines appear.
Watch and vomit...................... A snip it of why this game sucks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKvxab1kBk
+1 for first post, arguments worth reading.

+

I honestly would like to experience the feel how when one got a legendaries/Rares it would feel like acquiring a "long life partner", and parting with them is not exactly an easy things.

The way Rares/legendaries works now, is far from those feelings, not to mention most of them are junks to be salvaged. This is especially true for ilvl60+ legendaries and most rares, never had feelings for them.

----
I think this is still easily doable for low level legendaries and rares.
Ex1, Giving them EXP, allowing them to level up.
Ex2, giving unique names to legendaries might helps.
Ex3, create another group of low lvl legendaries that can lvl up + having unique name.
EX4, I think rare and legendaries items should drop less, but the quality should be much better.

The way things works now, players passed the low level stage in rather short amount of time. It took ~20 hour to reach lvl60, and even much less time with better experience in gaming. There's just no way low level legendaries can shine in these conditions. Of course there are few exceptions like Horadric Hamburger which can have up to 600++ dps for ilvl30, still most of them never had the chance to shine.

Giving them the ability to level up would make them stay at your character side for at least quite some time, making them worthy of to be attached to (at least for new players).

===================
aside from that

Posted by Sol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

I was looking for this video for a longtime.

Not only do all the subjects you point out are true, notice how the siege breaker summons a TON LOAD of skellies once he dies...where is this? where are all Diablo's deciples and followers at when you fight him up in the crystal arch? where is that EPIC Diablo 3 fight at? Where are all these HORDES and HORDES and endless waves of demonic monsters pouring out of the burning hells at? you know, the ones we saw in that video which introduced Azmodan?

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKbYEULiP4 ) (2:28)


Exactly, I was fooled by those false promises, how saddening.
Diablo 3 looks cheap in my eyes, no complexity, no diversity, nothing, just grind for lottery (and I do got few in all my 300 hours). Even the plots was far below my expectations.
User experience so far:

So I pay for a game "Diablo 3" I play one character to inferno only using the blacksmith and drops. After getting to inferno I feel like I've gotten my moneys worth with just one character.

All gameplay after that was a bonus, yes online play and item farming at high levels gets harder and turns into a grind but I'm 100% fine with that cause every online game I ever played follows that logic and I liked them.

What I'de say to all the unhappy people out there is "you are ungrateful" and calling blizzard greedy must be the height of arrogance.

Useful Ideas:

Polishing of random generation of maps/monsters.
Polishing of side quests/events/main story
Gradual improvement/refinement of existing skills and stats rolls of items.
A very nice read and I agree with alot of with has been said.

Other than that I can't add anything new to the thread since it's already been spoken for.
User experience so far:

So I pay for a game "Diablo 3" I play one character to inferno only using the blacksmith and drops. After getting to inferno I feel like I've gotten my moneys worth with just one character.

All gameplay after that was a bonus, yes online play and item farming at high levels gets harder and turns into a grind but I'm 100% fine with that cause every online game I ever played follows that logic and I liked them.

What I'de say to all the unhappy people out there is "you are ungrateful" and calling blizzard greedy must be the height of arrogance.

Useful Ideas:

Polishing of random generation of maps/monsters.
Polishing of side quests/events/main story
Gradual improvement/refinement of existing skills and stats rolls of items.


The thing is that, it's rather fast to reach the end game. I did reach level 60 in just 20+ hour when Diablo III first lauch. And without diversity in build, the enjoyment of building your character, the weight of making decision, it's getting more and more bland at lightning speed rate.

In my post above, I realized that my idea of finding "life long partner"-like feeling in the equip is very hard to realize in D3, why? because it only took you few hours to reach 20+ more level, and you toss that old equip easily for newer, more powerful equip. And once you reach 60, it's time for AH, you make money there, and get better equip there. The feeling of accomplishment or whatsoever, was never there or strong enough. In end-game, if you got a jackpot from lottery (grinding lottery), you sell it high, and build your character, that's it, no feeling attached to the monster drop you found, and it's always easier to find one at AH.

In fact, my ideas would only appease new kid-like players, for their taking forever time to reach 60 and learn how to use AH for profit.

for this, X paragon level item ideas seems to be nice at first glance, but it will hardly work at this timing.

In all other online game, at least it tooks you weeks or months or even years to reach what is called end game. In all those time spend, the new equips which you got (bought, drop, etc) will last for at least days to months before you decide you need something new, not to mention the fun in building your character.

We blame blizzard for the false promise it deliver to us. All those Cinematic movie, gameplay video, etc were all false promotion.

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