loot alert?

General Discussion
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03/04/2013 06:19 PMPosted by RockyRocket
Inigo and Pokey would be in real trouble then, farming is gonna get a whole lot harder for them if they aren't allowed to use loot alert.... the only reason they are able to find 200 legendaries in 3 days is because they hear the little alert "legendary" and are able to switch and pick it up... otherwise I would doubt they would even bother switching after every elite mob kill to check to see if anything dropped...


When a leg drops, a sound goes off and a huge STAR appears on the map. All they need to do is hit the TAB key when they get to the end of any level to check for legs. Done.
^^ That never used to be the case - was only implemented in 1.0.7...


So using a timer to keep track of my farming - and using a calculator app to keep track of my legendary per hour rate is a bannable offense?

I don't use the loot alert program, but I am familiar with it.

The loot alert program is no different. And unless someone outright tells you they are using it you can't detect it. There is no memory injection, only reading, and warden can not look at running processes, it can only detect memory injections.

Loot alert does none of that, and is what is stated in the blog you pointed to.

The program may not read any part of RAM that is reserved for the d3 process.
Then why doesn't Blizzard just come out and explicitly say that?

Instead the Community Managers just continue their love-affair with evasiveness, with never making a concrete statement, always being puckishly vague, fearing decisiveness as if making a declarative statement would make them disappear in a poof of smoke.

Are they just incapable of giving a yes or no answer about the status of Loot Alert without sounding like a Gypsy fortuneteller?
03/04/2013 06:37 PMPosted by Rukia
How about marco program that was provide by Mouse. I bought this mouse "SteelSeries Diablo III Gaming Mouse" and they come with marco program. Does it bannable or not?

You may not automate any portion of gameplay with the Macros that comes with the software for your mouse.

As long as you follow the one click per action rule, you're set.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
03/04/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Zuzax
Then why doesn't Blizzard just come out and explicitly say that?


Did you read the Terms of Use? Because it kind of does...

Blizzard is not in the habit of giving a "yes" or "no" answer to the validity of any particular third party program.

Why is this, you ask? It's very simple. A program that's fine now might be modified to be not-so-fine later on. Or Blizzard's policy on a program might change over time. Being "on record" as approving (or disapproving) of a particular program could turn into a "BUT YOU SAID IT WAS OKAY" argument. Or worse, some malicious party could distribute trojaned copies of the "sure, it's fine" software - and do Very Bad Things with that.
03/04/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Third-party software of any kind is not permitted in conjunction with Diablo III. I would highly suggest you check out this [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7810825/Diablo_III_Players_Banned-11_8_2012"]blog post[/url] for further information.


Blizzard's rules on third-party software are pretty straightforward.

[quote][You will not] Use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information;


Yeah guys.. don't complain that much.. you just don't understand that Multiboxing gives profit to blizzard with the 2-4acc pay it to do this?.. Macros and Loot Alert don't.. but obviously harm the game..


How about marco program that was provide by Mouse. I bought this mouse "SteelSeries Diablo III Gaming Mouse" and they come with marco program. Does it bannable or not?


This is a REALLLLLY good question
03/04/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Zuzax
Then why doesn't Blizzard just come out and explicitly say that?

They do, and they have.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/d3_eula.html

If you refer to the EULA which you must have acknowledged before you're allowed to play Diablo III it states this.

Additional License Limitations.
The license granted to you in Section 1 above is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:
  • In whole or in part, copy or reproduce (except as provided herein), translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game;
  • Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use;
  • Exploit the Game or any of its parts for any commercial purpose without Blizzard’s express permission, except that you may use the Game on the Service at a publicly available cyber café or computer gaming center; and (ii) that you may utilize Game’s Auction House feature in accordance with the Terms of Use for the Diablo III Auction House, which are available at 'http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/d3rmah_tou.html
  • Use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information;
  • Modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;
  • Create, utilize or transact in “Duplicated Items.” A “Duplicated Item” is any item in the Game created or copied by exploiting errors in the Game’s design, features which have not been documented, errors in the Service, and/or program bugs;
  • Host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play (except as expressly authorized by Blizzard), or as part of content aggregation networks;
  • Facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using third party programs or tools; or
  • Attempt to sell, sublicense, rent, lease, grant a security interest in or otherwise transfer any copy of the Game or your rights to the Game to any other party in any way not expressly authorized herein.

I have bolded the most important part that pertains to the use of this program.

Obviously not all 3rd party software such as your operating system or drivers will result in a ban. However, if the program modifies the game in any way outside of the intended gameplay it is not allowed.

Programs such as FRAPS and XSplit that use the Windows Framebuffer are perfectly fine to use as they are not directly interacting with, or datamining any information stored in RAM for use with the D3 game files.

It's not quite as black and white as "No 3rd party programs no matter what" as there are exceptions, but generally if the program changes the way Diablo III operates it will be flagged as illegitimate.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
At the end of the day it is YOUR computer and what YOU choose to run on it is YOUR right.As loot alert reads the memory AFTER it is writern then they would have no legel right to ban you in any court or under any ACT (remember this is only there policy).To and if they wanted to hold to the thrid party rule them windows it's self would require a person to banned as WINDOWS does a memory check at before/during and at the end of Diablo 3. Plus it would bring in question how they would know if YOU are using loot alert as it does not inject into the game but simply reads the memory output this would then speak of spyware or key logging.
So saying all this WELL even knowing I,M right would and has made me to afard to use the program when I look at the amount of time i personal have spent on D3 there's noway I would risk lossing it through taking a chance. And this is the factor that they play the fear factor 9over legal rights)well it's worked on me I would much prefer to just keep playing.
So my advice is DON'T use it I know I won't risk the loaded gun wil you?
Cheers
03/04/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Pahanda
Then why doesn't Blizzard just come out and explicitly say that?


Did you read the Terms of Use? Because it kind of does...

Blizzard is not in the habit of giving a "yes" or "no" answer to the validity of any particular third party program.

Why is this, you ask? It's very simple. A program that's fine now might be modified to be not-so-fine later on. Or Blizzard's policy on a program might change over time. Being "on record" as approving (or disapproving) of a particular program could turn into a "BUT YOU SAID IT WAS OKAY" argument. Or worse, some malicious party could distribute trojaned copies of the "sure, it's fine" software - and do Very Bad Things with that.
Please. The standard old CM line of "we can never say anything ever because something might change" still rings hollow even when parroted by an MVP. If things change, then clarify. Take a stand. Defend your product. Tell the people that complain that life changes sometimes.

And do you really believe that trojans and such will not happen if Blizzard continues maintaing a vague gray area? If anything if they say using 3rd party program X will get you banned, the people hanging trojans on them will decrease due to usage falling off.
03/04/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Zuzax
Please. The standard old CM line of "we can never say anything ever because something might change" still rings hollow even when parroted by an MVP. If things change, then clarify. Take a stand. Defend your product. Tell the people that complain that life changes sometimes.


Why should they have to waste their time clarifying when they can just give a simple answer and have it always be correct?

And really... is it THAT hard to read the thread fully?
03/04/2013 06:18 PMPosted by Pahanda
The program in question reads memory to determine when a drop has occurred. Therefore, it's against the rules.

Stand taken. Are you happy now?

Honestly, it sounds like you're just bound and determined to dislike whatever answer you get. The Terms of Use gives (in this case) the most explicit and straightforward answer - and the only one that really matters, because it's the legal document that Blizzard justifies closing an account for using software like this.
Please. The standard old CM line of "we can never say anything ever because something might change" still rings hollow even when parroted by an MVP. If things change, then clarify. Take a stand. Defend your product. Tell the people that complain that life changes sometimes.

Just use common sense.

If you think it might get you banned, it probably will so don't do it.

If at any point you consider "Does this give me an advantage that someone else wouldn't have normally?" then the program in question is probably not approved for use.

Pahanda is entirely correct. If Blizzard gives the green flag for a certain program and it changes down the line, then it could potentially be in violation of Blizzard's policies. It's in an effort to prevent players from throwing it back in Blizzard's face.

If you want a concrete yes or no answer for Loot Alert in its current form... concrete answer is "YES" it will get you banned since it violates a provision directly stipulated in the EULA.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
03/04/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Drothvader
Then why doesn't Blizzard just come out and explicitly say that?

They do, and they have.
...snip because the forum thinks there is HTML in here...


Ok, so if it's in the EULA (which I will admit to not memorizing) then there is even less of a reason for CMs to be evasive. They have it in black and white to answer the questions.

At the end of the day, I'm not even a user of these programs. I just get fed up with teflon CMs evading even the simplest of questions for fear of going on record. If situations change, they can too. It might be tough, but they're the ones who took the job eating bees. They'd get a lot more respect around here by taking and defending a position.
03/04/2013 07:12 PMPosted by Zuzax
Ok, so if it's in the EULA (which I will admit to not memorizing) then there is even less of a reason for CMs to be evasive. They have it in black and white to answer the questions.


It's the Terms of Use. It's a legally-binding contract - one which can land you in court for breaking (in extreme circumstances). Are you in the habit of signing contracts without reading them?

And to answer your second point... some people don't like being pointed to walls of text - which is why Vaeflare linked a blog post which actually explains some of the legalese. (a blog post which was almost certainly reviewed for legal accuracy by Blizzard's team of lawyers, it's worth pointing out)
Maybe everyone is sick of hearing legal jargon and would just like a straightforward answer that doesn't require 8 years of law school to decipher? Maybe blizzard thinks since it works for the president it should work for them.....
I FEEL that in Blizzard's world, "Bannable" and the action of actually checking , double checking then actioning the violation with the actual "Ban" are currently like chalk and cheese. Maybe because of the already low population who knows... I just don't feel that they have the man power / position anymore to be so picky of whom can play this game with such a dwindling population.

Take BoT bans for example. I'd think that reporting of these to the community to prove Blizzard gives a stuff would be on their priority of PR activities (considering how well it is usually received by the community).. and the Banning itself should be a regular activity, yet last BoT ban we heard abut was when???? ... 4 months ago when it takes what.. $10 and 2 days to level a new 60 Bot?.

Thanks though for the regular posts with the instructions of where we should send our reports concerning hacks and bots ... what I feel currently is AKA the "SPAM FOLDER".

Overall, I feel blizzard 3rd party rules are vague and not regularly enforced to show a true position on the issue.

For example.. for 6 months a streamer might use loot alert with no problems.. A player will post a SPECIFIC question regarding a program and rather than a CM replying, "I'll check if that program is allowed and will get back to you" they link a blog post that does not answer the question SPECIFICALLY .. just has a vague summation that can be applied however Blizzard see's fit when it suits them.

3 month from now Blizzard issues bans, says.. "Loot alert breaks Terms of Use" people CRY, CM's relink said blog post.. happy days... you were warned.. kind of... right?
I apparently have triggered some sort of MVP sock-puppet alarm here, so I will yield to your greater stamina in producing walls of text in maintaining your status. I will stop before any more MVPs swarm, and hop back in if (and only if) a CM pops in tomorrow during regular business hours.
03/04/2013 07:17 PMPosted by BOSS
you were warned.. kind of... right?


You were warned when you first installed the game and read the Terms of Use. Programs which read game memory are explicitly against the rules and have been from the day the game was launched.

As the saying goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Neither is failing to read the laws - particularly when you have to digitally sign an agreement to abide by them before you start playing.


The program in question reads memory to determine when a drop has occurred. Therefore, it's against the rules.



THIS coming from a CM not MVP is what I would consider as a SPECIFIC answer to OP's question.

Nothing but full respect to Pahanda for this answer, however I personally as a player know NOTHING about coding and programing so a technical summary of what a program is allowed or not allowed to do is useless to me.. reading RAM.. I mean yes it sounds simple but how can you tell if a program does that as a lay-person?

A straight answer of.. this PARTICULAR program in it's current form acts in a way that we do not allow is all anyone asks of the CM's.. yet you hardly ever get it.
03/04/2013 07:26 PMPosted by BOSS
THIS coming from a CM not MVP is what I would consider as a SPECIFIC answer to OP's question.


The reason why we as MVPs can do that is because our answer isn't official - nor will it backfire on Blizzard if things change. If a Blizzard employee does that, it's potentially much worse.

Again, keep in mind that the Terms of Use explicitly mentions "unauthorized" programs. For a Blizzard employee to give an "okay" to a program could be seen as tantamount to an "authorization". And as previously mentioned, if that program (or one pretending to be it) ever changed into something bad... Blizzard's lawyers might have a tough time justifying closing accounts for using it.

It's a legal pitfall - and one which I'm fairly confident in saying that the CMs are simply not permitted to go anywhere near.

tl;dr version - blame the lawyers, not the CMs.

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