Ubers: shards vs shell

Wizard
01/30/2013 10:17 AMPosted by JoeMammy
If I get SK and Mags stacked up nice, they get perma-frozen. I'm 3.07 APS with ~55% CC and a good connection. But even (nearly?) perma-frozen, they can still break out. King will walk and Mags will toss out an arcane. I don't use bubble, mainly because I can't stand not having teleport. It's too intrinsic a part of how I play the class. Just $0.02.


if sk twirls and magda casts that means they're stuttering. what people are referring to as perma-lock is literally no stutters the entire time (usually until sk dies) which can be pretty easily achieved with 2 cm wiz (almost impossible with 1).

tele was hard for me to let go of on ubers too at first but after i got used to having to physically walk to where i wanted to go I found its pretty much useless in uber fights except maybe a few unique occasions.

I personally like magic wep with blood magic when im carrying cause its a constant dps increase without having to add another spell cast to my rotation, and the 1.5% lifesteal iis rediculously strong - when paired with shell i can stand on arcane axis for a few seconds before having to move / use potion lol.
Also, goes without saying, shards = BIS for freeze skill slot. Same criteria, run duration / speed

Ofc if dead while running shards it means more gear needed, til then use gimp and go shell
01/30/2013 10:26 AMPosted by saxy
absolute no brainer. of course use crystal shell. If the party is big and there's plenty of dps, definitely use teleport. the wiz is the last person any party wants to see die. With him around rez's are so damn easy. without him, everything is a nightmare.


No. This is wrong if you are running a group that doesn't die. If dying isn't an issue, there is no reason to use crutches like teleport and shell.

All that matters is run time. Giving up 20% dmg buff to your HOTA barbs and Monk is ludicrous, run will take 2-3 min longer at very least
@phantom

I have used cold snap if I'm doing a really big carry, putting a lot of burden on me. Use tele too in this situation.

But that's not a proper uber group situation, when people here are saying what's BEST they should be assuming proper uber group, in which case cold snap simply means it will take longer. 15% buff to your dual HotA barb+monk deeps is far more important than marginally better control over SKmag.

There is a distinction between what is purely BEST vs. what you can do to gain crutches in sub optimal groups, e.g. Carries where it's only you + 3 poorly geared

No. This is wrong if you are running a group that doesn't die. If dying isn't an issue, there is no reason to use crutches like teleport and shell.

All that matters is run time. Giving up 20% dmg buff to your HOTA barbs and Monk is ludicrous, run will take 2-3 min longer at very least

THIS!

Unless you are carrying people in the run. Not running Time Warp feels very selfish. 20% extra dps for everyone is just too much.

And contrary to other's opinion, slow time actually works hugely in my favor for Realm Of Discord's fight.
@Alesso: I think Steel is referring not just to the fight with Leoric/Magdha, but also the others. I do agree with Steel it's a bit harder to setup with Bone Chill and occassionally the ubers can wiggle away enough that a HoTa lock is broken, but when I'm the loan SNS CM/WW wizard I'm often using using Bone Chill at 2.73aps (and always have my 3.0aps gear as a backup). IMO, you just have to be careful in setting up the permafreeze, so you can get Rakanoth/Ghom and Seigebreaker/Kulle close enough together. If they're close enough together at the start it's usually enough. :)
@Mil: I think the disconnect is that a large portion of us form groups for ubers. And Time Warp is pretty much BiS for a good group, but it's not so straightforward a choice if you're soloing ubers or doing ubers with a sub-par group.


No. This is wrong if you are running a group that doesn't die. If dying isn't an issue, there is no reason to use crutches like teleport and shell.

All that matters is run time. Giving up 20% dmg buff to your HOTA barbs and Monk is ludicrous, run will take 2-3 min longer at very least


Crutches? I use teleport and crystal shell on ubers religiously. Repositioning with teleport makes every fight so much easier, including getting 5 stacks. I have solo'd ubers with full SNS and it does get dicey on the sk/mag fight. I prefer not dying at all and that includes taking whacks from skelly when he breaks freeze. Crystal shell allows me to absorb all of magdhas butterflies and the 30% DR from safe passage allows me to stand in an arcane laser while doing it. Sure a bit of extra dps is nice for the party but the risk of dying is not worth it IMO.
It depends also on the brains of your group. If they know your positioning goal, then every fight will remain locked and stacked for double damage. SKmag will require more repositioning ofc

The 2 non-SKmag fights will last about 1-4 mins each depending on gearz. The SKmag is the only one where there will be annoying moving and waiting for mag to shield etc. @2.73+ in decent group I keep SKmag locked with 1-3 escapes, more if the group isn't great and takes long to kill. Damage is so good with warp+BC it rescues and improves the loss from re-stacking them


No. This is wrong if you are running a group that doesn't die. If dying isn't an issue, there is no reason to use crutches like teleport and shell.

All that matters is run time. Giving up 20% dmg buff to your HOTA barbs and Monk is ludicrous, run will take 2-3 min longer at very least


Crutches? I use teleport and crystal shell on ubers religiously. Repositioning with teleport makes every fight so much easier, including getting 5 stacks. I have solo'd ubers with full SNS and it does get dicey on the sk/mag fight. I prefer not dying at all and that includes taking whacks from skelly when he breaks freeze. Crystal shell allows me to absorb all of magdhas butterflies and the 30% DR from safe passage allows me to stand in an arcane laser while doing it. Sure a bit of extra dps is nice for the party but the risk of dying is not worth it IMO.


They are crutches because they help survival, not run duration, at sufficient gear lvl and group ability.

Fastest run possible requires BC and Timewarp. Not tele and shell. There is no debate here, not trying to hate. What you call "bit of extra Dps" is actually 35% more to everyone, including the uber high deeps HOTA pounders. The monk gives similar dmg buff effect, it all combines for epic 5-10min run -- this turns into 10min+ if gimped out in teleport shell
They are crutches nothing wrong with saying so. A crutch in CM terms is anything that reduces DPS. TP and shell are crutches compared to alternatives. So is cold snap. so is evo.

efficient CM would run GC, bone chill, timewarp, and shards
Also it's worth mentioning that if you're carrying a really weak/precarious group, do the leave game strat instead of adding gimp to make up for bigger burden. It's cheesy but its all about the bottom line, run duration
01/30/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Alesso
Also it's worth mentioning that if you're carrying a really weak/precarious group, do the leave game strat instead of adding gimp to make up for bigger burden. It's cheesy but its all about the bottom line, run duration


ya for those who dont know, this is the best way to speed it up..the kill speed difference between the 3 of them standing in a corner or being dead while u solo vs u solo while they wait in menues (and rejoin before uber dies) is huge.
I agree aimless. Glass cannon probably the last non-gimp to add, hardest to achieve and smallest gain...I think? BC and warp boost total group dmg, GC just you, but still definitely better for overall run duration assuming no deaths because of it

I'm gonna give that a shot see how it feels over evo, I've actually never tried it on ubers. Probly need more armor/ar
I agree aimless. Glass cannon probably the last non-gimp to add, hardest to achieve and smallest gain...I think? BC and warp boost total group dmg, GC just you, but still definitely better for overall run duration assuming no deaths because of it

I'm gonna give that a shot see how it feels over evo, I've actually never tried it on ubers. Probly need more armor/ar


u need 3 at least or u chase to much hurting times. but its still a crutch to run evo cos like other crutches only gear standing in your way from running gc
Oh yeah and alessco firewalks conflag would be the better alternative for your team play. 10% more again for everyone.
Does anyone use Fracture? I carry 3 people before, and the most important thing is survival, so when everyone die except for me. It would be hard to revive anyone with Magda and SK on your behind, but fracture kind of take attention away from you and allow you a few extra seconds to revive party members.
@Aimless: Actually glass cannon isn't BiS, it would likely be Conflagaration (if you had a reliable way to setup and proc it reliably, such as FireWalkers or "maybe" Storm Crow). Like Alesso said, the ideal setup would be 100% maximizing your group damage buffs. Glass cannon only impacts us as the SNS wiz, whereas ideally you're buffing everyone's damage in the group.

EDIT: Lol, just saw you're extra post about conflag, which I 100% agree with.
if only there was a way to have conflag without breaking nats / having to use meteors and such..would, like aimless said, be best team play buff for evo replacement. someone said storm crow fireball proc works with conflag but im not sure if this is true / how well it works as i havnt tested it.
Very interesting, I always forget conflag... Hmm... I wonder, would HF fireball proc enuf to make conflag stay on >80-90% of the time? Due to insane hit rate of WW & co., I see my HF shooting fireballs quite frequently, but is it enough to make conflag effective?

Hmm.. Gonna explore that

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum