Dear Blizz, monks r still screwed...

General Discussion
it just sucks that you need 7000 billions of gold (exagerating) to make a monk go from very bad to great ( not even insane)
As a side note, it's funny how many people buff their toons before exiting to exhibit the highest dps possible.

When fully buffed, my toon would show about 280K dps and maybe higher, not including my sweeping wind snapshot damage, but oh well.
Actually I got him to 380K dps, but didn't manage to freeze it there for the profile to capture it. Right now it only shows 260K dps. Someone seeing my profile at 380K dps would think my monk was a super-elite monk, when he is not, but you get the point of how pointless and silly that is.
I'm disappointed that there's no way to increase your spirit pool outside of Exalted Soul. Chant of Resonance and Guardian's Path are just so much better for regeneration, and Fleet Footed is mandatory.
-1

Monks have access to plenty of spirit regeneration if they are willing to experiment with their builds.

Passives:
Chant of Resonance
Exalted Soul

Powers:
Fist of Thunder - Quickening (Clear choice for spirit massive spirit generation)
Deadly Reach - Strike from Beyond
Breath of Heaven - Infused with Light
Crippling Wave - Rising Tide
Way of the Hundred Fists - Spirited Salvo
Sweeping Wind - Inner Storm
Mantra of Retribution - Against All Odds
Mantra of Healing - Circular Breathing

The above list are pure spirit regenerating abilities.
That doesn't even include all the attack powers that have reduced spirit cost runes.
It also doesn't include the fact that you can gear for significant spirit regeneration as well.

To assume Monks need even more help with spirit regeneration is completely absurd.


Yep. You forgot to mention the 6-8 Spirit Regen a monk can garner from his items. Let's not forget that items = build.

Monks do still need some tweaks, but I'm excited about trying out a few new builds. I had a fun SSS/EP build I used for quite awhile during 1.05 that relied on spirit regen from dual wield weaps and Inna's helm + Inner Storm.

Monks are fine. We need some further tweaks to break away from this Cyclone/FoT mold but Monks can hack it against anything.
Pacers101 makes a decent point about attack speed and dual wielders, but that applies to the old way of playing where monks rarely used spirit-spending, damage-dealing skills.

Post 1.07, try spamming Overawe, hitting Wave of Light, refreshing your Blinding Flash, and you will find yourself with zero spirit and waiting several seconds even when dual wielding to use any of your skills. As your spirit replenishes you will have to choose between Wave of Light and Overawe, but not both. At the same time, you will have to keep a reserve for Serenity or Breath of Heaven or Sweeping Wind if the timer runs out.

Comparing this to the only other melee class, Barbarian, there is NO Into the Fray or HotA type synergies to replenish fury (or spirit for monks) constantly. Barb also has numerous other bonuses to fury generation, like the IK set, passives, and Mighty Weapon. Monk looks pathetic in comparison.
-1

Monks have access to plenty of spirit regeneration if they are willing to experiment with their builds.

Passives:
Chant of Resonance
Exalted Soul

Powers:
Fist of Thunder - Quickening (Clear choice for spirit massive spirit generation)
Deadly Reach - Strike from Beyond
Breath of Heaven - Infused with Light
Crippling Wave - Rising Tide
Way of the Hundred Fists - Spirited Salvo
Sweeping Wind - Inner Storm
Mantra of Retribution - Against All Odds
Mantra of Healing - Circular Breathing

The above list are pure spirit regenerating abilities.
That doesn't even include all the attack powers that have reduced spirit cost runes.
It also doesn't include the fact that you can gear for significant spirit regeneration as well.

To assume Monks need even more help with spirit regeneration is completely absurd.


Exactly! I dont understand like WTHECK they want?

Blizzard does not respond this because you guys are stupid! They dont have to teach you what to do lol, everything is there.
@Shuun, you have a 50K monk. You are lucky if you make it through MP2 without dying. Have you ever done Act 3 MP9/MP10 from beginning to end? If not, then please be quiet.
Anyone who does not have a monk that's actually played at least MP4 in inferno should not speak about spririt generation "not being an issue".

Spirit generation is a major issue if you want to use spirit spenders, because the only way a monk can regenerate spirit is a fixed amount per second, or a fixed amount per hit.

In contrast, classes like Barbs and Wizards have crit procs that generate fury. How good would a barb be if battle rage no longer proced fury on crit? How good would wizard be, if arcane power on crit were gone?

This is the major reason monks use Sweeping Wind -- because it doesn't require spirit once it's cast. That doesn't make Spirit regeneration not a problem. Blizzard's intended goal is for monks to use spirit spenders (conceivably, in PvE). This is not possible in any build other than speciality, low MP builds, such as Tailwind Rush.

There are four places monks can get spirit regeneration:
1. Passives
2. SoJ
3. Fists
4. Helm

Each slot gives you between 1-2.5 spirit per second. Even when you have them ALL, and stack 15 spirit per second, you can't spam any of the great spirit spenders (which can cost 50-75 spirit). Nobody will use those skills in PvE unless they can be spammed; having a skill you can only use every 10 seconds is as bad as a cooldown, and nobody wants to fill a slot with another cooldown skill.

And/but: I'm not saying Monks can't PvE, or that they are a broken or gimpy class. I'm just saying agreeing with the OP that Monks' spirit regeneration options make it so that all of the new buffed skills are unattractive, at least in PvE. Ironically PvP is less of an issue, because you can simply hide while spirit regenerates. You have far less of a need to spam skills in PvP.
Well said, Talys.

No monk is going to use MoH-Circular Breathing except for the TR build.
At a minimum, add a skill that procs spirit regen off Crits and improve the anemic 0.33 spirit regen on the Inna's Set.

On a side note, can monks have a staff, leg or rare, that is useful? I have never seen a monk using a staff because all staves are terrible.
Yet people consider TR spec a viable build despite it's cost. Same goes for a handful of other builds out there. This isn't about gear cost as much as it's about build diversity.I still believe we're jumping the gun when claims like 'monks r still screwed' are being made prior to the patch going live. People will experiment with builds and maybe something will come to the surface.


TR is not a viable spec beyond MP3. The TR spec is focused on killing as much as possible as quickly as possible. Anything Beyond MP1 is pretty pointless actually. Most monks dont bother with three piece Inna's unless its for TR spec, same goes with 2h like flying dragon. The benefit is outweighed by the sacrifice.

People have experimented with builds. The conclusion has been that sacrificing things for spirit regen (skills or equip) has proven ineffective, to date. After experimenting, many monks have expressed their opinions on why other builds are not as effective. Most of this surrounded spirit generators and inefficient passive alternatives/skill runes.

I can tell you that very few monks thought that a buff to Wave of Light and Inner Sanctuary would resolve the lack of viable builds for MP8-10. Most of the buffs are still outweighed by other limits to the skills: Cyclone Strike (enemy # limit), Inner Sanctuary (same duration as Serenity, costs 20 spirit more and is less multi-situational), Lashing Tail Kick (annoys the hell out of everyone we could group with, we already get yelled at if we use EF), etc. etc.
I certainly hope my post wasn't construed as me not taking offense to the lack of spirit. I've run the same build since June of last year. Honestly, it is the only viable build. TR with Skorn is an amusing build, but frankly, as you all know, a low MP build. (Not for me.) High MP PVE is cyclones. Period.

Oh, and for the guy with the SC2 profile and the skorn, knock if off. It doesn't take 400 hrs of gameplay and 250K to know that spirit regen is an issue. Even with my !@#$ty gears I can hit 359K buffed.
It looks like alot of the set bonuses are getting reworked. Including the 3 piece inna's set bonus.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7810091773
Which could be a good thing, depends on what they do with it.
But i agree with the OP, spirit generation needs to be fixed, At higher mp's there are very few builds to work with. I've used the same build for months (same build as 90% of monks) because its the most affective. I've used other builds at higher mp's but they pale in comparison or simply dont work.
Well said, Talys.

No monk is going to use MoH-Circular Breathing except for the TR build.
At a minimum, add a skill that procs spirit regen off Crits and improve the anemic 0.33 spirit regen on the Inna's Set.

On a side note, can monks have a staff, leg or rare, that is useful? I have never seen a monk using a staff because all staves are terrible.


Oh thanks I forgot about Circular Breathing in my list :) It's ok for PvP, but really, I don't know anyone who uses it in PvE.

0.33 spirit regen for 3pc inna is a cuel joke. If you go make a pot of coffee, you'll fill your spirit ball (7.5 minutes to refill... rofl). Also, I think when Bliz "fixed" 2h weapons, what they really did was just make Skorn viable. Every 2h melee weapon other than Skorn still blows chunks. It would be cool if some of the other 2h weapons were useful....
If you think Monk's resource management is bad... you should roll a WD and try for upper MP runs... then you sill see what a gimped resource feels like.

WD's have to run 3 mana passives, 3-4 actives to help in mana, and 2-3 gear pieces dedicated to it + 1 required set (zuni). I dont know any other class having to dedicate so much into managing a resource.. and one that doesn't scale at all with gear/ias.

At least monk spirit generators scale with ias.
Personally I just think they should make <resource> on crit a standard thing for all classes, remove some of the current ways to generate so it balances it, but it's just silly that Wiz and Barb can fully fill-and-dump their resource globe 10 times a second.

My monk is my main, I'm paragon 99 and still don't have 100k DPS unbuffed, though I can solo MP8 pretty well and MP10 with difficulty. I don't spend any real money on this game and I've prolly dumped a couple hundred mil into random experimental builds on my monk and other chars.

But anyways what I was getting at is I've played Monk a LOT and despite my gear not being godly I have plenty of knowledge of the class and spirit generation is definitely an issue. Yes you CAN have good spirit regen by doing certain things, but those almost always lead to losing the dmg from cyclones and mantra spam, and losing the mobility from thunderclap. If you want to use our newly buffed spenders you will still have to lose your DPS and mobility which just makes you a burster which doesn't work in high MPS.

Monks are the ONLY class that doesn't get to use a resource spender as their main damage source, barbs spam slam, WW, or rend, Wiz spams 4 spenders, DH spams 2-3 spenders, WD spams high spenders to do any dmg and like someone said their generation sucks as well.

Why is it that we monks are forced to use a weak little 100ish% wep dmg attack as our main skill? Sweeping winds lets us keep up but the snapshot is getting removed so that wont be as formidable anymore. I just think Monks,(and WD too) could definitely use a better way to generate resource. WD isn't so much trouble because they actually have good high-spenders, though they do run into issues with high MPs. But monks are forced to either be low MP bursters or do nothing but hold down the left mouse button on high MPs. Barbs and Wiz, and to a lesser degree DH, can spam out 100s of resource per second to their hearts content.

EDIT: Also does anyone know how to switch my profile from starcraft to diablo? I dont even play starcraft anymore.
02/01/2013 07:00 AMPosted by babinro
Yet people consider TR spec a viable build despite it's cost.


People consider TR spec a viable LOW MP build for efficient farming. Like Josh said, you are completely retarded. You are probably using the high regen skill set with no damage or you dual wielded credit cards for gears with DPS + Spirit Regen gear. (sorry not worth the effort to check your profile)

I have a 140k dps unbuff monk and 900AR, I still can say that spirit generation is not good. And, we dont have any other alternative that can par up with FoT-Thunderfist. And I am really bored with my skill set for high MP (im talking about MP8-MP10)
Lol at people saying monk spirit regen is fine... basically saying "HEY U GAIZ ANY BUILD IS VIABLE, I FARM HELL ALL DAY WITH THE WACKIEST BUILD AND IT WORKS"

I'd love to have spirit regen maxed out and be able to do higher MP....but the bottom line is there seems to be alot of nobody's who think they know what they're talking about because they play mp 1-3.


Agreed, Look at Babinro. :)
and now they are nerfing 7% crit Nat bonus!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7810091773

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