D3 Item Game: A Big Step Back

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+1, liked, agreed with OP
When the itemization is wrong in an item hunt game then the game isn't fun. Funny thing is they keep going in the wrong direction making BOA gear in an item hunt game and turning Diablo more and more into WoW
02/02/2013 11:42 AMPosted by IllIllllIllI
(People will say gold was worthless in D2, no... It wasn't. Watch someone die in a Baal run and every cockroach B-lines for the pile. Helps with repairs, buys consumables, and gambling), can be used for socketing, can be used to make rares


Gold wasn't the most useful currency ever implemented, but it still had value. It cost 50,000 gold to resurrect your mercenary (who was massively more useful in diablo 2 than in diablo 3 because of aura stacking and the ability to outfit them with ridiculous gear). Granted, I'm glad we don't have to pay to resurrect our mercs in D3; I would trade that convenience to be able to toss on an ethereal bone hew onto my merc and watch it actually kill a mob in hell in 1 or 2 swings. With the proper gear your mercenary could actually solo bosses in D2.

Gold was useful, but it wasn't the goal of the game. You didn't play D2 because you were trying to get more gold. You played it because you enjoyed killing monsters and you wanted to see what would drop next. You might have even played it because you wanted to hit level 99.

Green (Sets): Most sets suck but again you know what you're getting, stats roll between exceptional and godly


Some sets sucked, but most of them actually served a purpose. Sigon's set for example was amazing for leveling new characters, same with 2 piece angelic for the attack rating, cleglaw's gloves and pincer, hsaurs(sp) belt and boots. Most of the sets were actually pretty good for the earlier levels of the game where finding/crafting quality rares was extremely difficult due to itemization limitations.

Gold (Rune Words): Possibly the most inventive, creative, interesting, and fun crafting mechanics I've ever experienced in a game, why they didn't carry it over blows my mind to pieces (They were a bit OP, ok... So tone them down, problem solved). Also if you found lower more "useless" runes you could combine them and work your way up. Even the freaking useless items in D2 could be made useful, and again stats roll between exceptional and godly


Rune words not being in diablo 3 is possibly the biggest let down in my opinion. They are what truly gave Diablo 2 the staying power it had; because without them it would've just been an endless hunt for the next shako or arreat's will. Giving class abilities to the wrong class and seeing what they can do with them was so fun (whirlwind on assassins, fanasticism on necros).

Overpowered, sure. That's the point. This franchise is not world of warcraft. It's not meant to be an e-sport, and it's not meant to be balanced. People play these games so that they can make their characters absurdly powerful and then trounce all over the enemies. Armed with the knowledge that people are so powerful, blizzard is free to release uber / optional content that's actually difficult and requires elite gear and planning ahead of time; rather than watering the content down so everyone can do it, get bored of it and go play Path of Exile or simply not play at all. Having difficult content, they could I don't know make it actually rewarding? Oh what a dream.

And please don't feed me the usual "D2 didn't have at launch" garbage,


I try to remain patient because I realize D2 was honed over several years of refinement, but I can't be the only one who is getting tired of waiting for serious fixes to long standing issues. Why are we more worried about arena style dueling in an ARPG than fixing the horrible itemization that has been forced down our throats for almost a year? Priorities are mixed up. Anyone who thinks dueling will make the game fun again is sorely mistaken and probably retarded.
sounds like the complainers wants to play an HD version of d2.... meaning with bots and duped runes and duped runes and duped runes and duped runes to be the godliest

op was right as some points but uniques in d2 were not great at all....maybe a selected few were great, the rest garbage, every char in d2 had half their gear as rune words and then the rest were the godliest uniques (godliest uniques = the +1 to all skills such as ARACH, SOJ, BK, MARAS etc.)

other than that, its either your char was an mfer and used all teh same unqies such as (chance guard gloves, war travs, tal set, shako etc...) and even those mf uniques were completely useless

runes were the hardest to find, its impossible to farm 5 high end runes in a week (ist is the most common high run to find on the forge, ones above that were on the drop rate of all legendaries in d3 at launch of this game)...runes were duped which was why everyone had runewords

so you were either using runewords with the "godliest uniques" or else you were an mf char

ps. those godliest uniques drop rates are worse than d3 drop rate at launch....i played over 5 years and only found 1 bk 1 arach 1 maras and no SOJS
02/03/2013 08:12 AMPosted by Yoshi
sounds like the complainers wants to play an HD version of d2


No I don't, at all. I love Diablo 3's combat. I just want a sequal 12yrs later to have MORE features than the last game did, not significantly less.
sounds like the complainers wants to play an HD version of d2.... meaning with bots and duped runes and duped runes and duped runes and duped runes to be the godliest

op was right as some points but uniques in d2 were not great at all....maybe a selected few were great, the rest garbage, every char in d2 had half their gear as rune words and then the rest were the godliest uniques (godliest uniques = the +1 to all skills such as ARACH, SOJ, BK, MARAS etc.)

other than that, its either your char was an mfer and used all teh same unqies such as (chance guard gloves, war travs, tal set, shako etc...) and even those mf uniques were completely useless

runes were the hardest to find, its impossible to farm 5 high end runes in a week (ist is the most common high run to find on the forge, ones above that were on the drop rate of all legendaries in d3 at launch of this game)...runes were duped which was why everyone had runewords

so you were either using runewords with the "godliest uniques" or else you were an mf char

ps. those godliest uniques drop rates are worse than d3 drop rate at launch....i played over 5 years and only found 1 bk 1 arach 1 maras and no SOJS

It is funny that you put together such a huge list of complaints and can't manage to explain how D3 improved on any of these supposed faults. The reality is that D2 had far more useful uniques than D3 has of useful legendaries. D3 has just as massive if not more so of a botting problem and apparently duping problem as D2. You also neglect the power and value of high end rares and crafted items which definitely appeared in some of the BiS lists for many character builds. Where is all this variety in D3? Your post seems to have forgotten to explain how what we have now is better.
02/03/2013 08:13 AMPosted by IllIllllIllI
sounds like the complainers wants to play an HD version of d2


No I don't, at all. I love Diablo 3's combat. I just want a sequal 12yrs later to have MORE features than the last game did, not significantly less.


im pretty sure everyone wanted a sequal...even i wanted one but im pretty sure they wanted to try something new and im sure they didnt say it was a sequal although it is called diablo 3 but because it is a new start...im sure they will bring back some of the things in d2 to make all the "veteran" players feel like they are playing a "real" diablo game again
i totally agree with op, they need to add more use in there items

I was on board for the new system until i played the game. Making item finding so random removed most of the fun.


That's a key point, you thought the announced system would be good, probably most others did too, obviously the designer did, unfortunately that's not the case and they just need to fix it. People make mistakes and as long as they intend to address it I guess we just have to be patient.


I totally bought into it at first.
Gold (Unique): Almost always good, stats roll between exceptional and godly


Loooooool.
OP confirmed for having never played D2 for an hour in his life.
Disregard anything else in his post.

I like how people say itemization is bad in D3 because you can find a 300 DPS weapon.
Yet in D2, you can find a unique 9-14 DPS weapon from Hell Baal.

Where do you put that weapon by the way, is it EXCEPTIONAL or GODLY?


Actually I think YOU just confirmed that YOU never played d2 for an hour in YOUR life.

When that 9-14 DPS weapon is Gull Dagger, and your damage is based off of a skill tree instead of being entirely focused on a stat stick with a big number on it, AND when that normal level weapon can be upgraded to an elite version of that same weapon using the Horadric Cube.....

Then it's EXCEPTIONAL or GODLY.

Edit: I don't really know how they can make the expansion "better" without releasing an entirely new game. New content, another act, and a higher level cap won't change the fact that really you're just stacking larger and larger numbers of stats on your character and when you swing your sword you're critting for more damage more of the time.

I guess the same can be said for D2 and D2Xpac, but the key point to D2Xpac was that you swung for more damage IN COOL WAYS. Auras on runeworded weapons, turning into a freaking werewolf, etc.

With the exception of a very few number of skills in D3 (dread bomb is freaking hilarious), I rarely get the feeling of "oh that was awesome!" when playing this game.
It's such a shame. In Diablo 2, every time you got a Unique item, (what Legendary Items SHOULD be called) it was almost always amazing, or at least worth trying. I found a Gull Dagger, which gave 100% magic find. I would always hit W and switch weapons right before killing a boss and found amazing things.

Oh well, at least they can fix this game with Jay Wilson gone!
02/02/2013 11:42 AMPosted by IllIllllIllI
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8135/diabloevolution.jpg


Perfect~!

Only the Graphics are okey. :(
OP,

Okay, considering what you said in your "Item Overview in D2," I don't think you actually played D2. If you did, it was very little. Your entire overview of that game just "felt" weird. Like you were passing on something you heard and/or read. And either way, some things you said were just plain wrong.

Okay, that's all I had to say. Carry on!

As someone who played 1000+ hours of D2 I would say the OP is spot on. Maybe it's you who is relying on secondhand information.

^
I agree with your general point, but my god dude next time go easy on the bias.
Rune words not being in diablo 3 is possibly the biggest let down in my opinion. They are what truly gave Diablo 2 the staying power it had; because without them it would've just been an endless hunt for the next shako or arreat's will. Giving class abilities to the wrong class and seeing what they can do with them was so fun (whirlwind on assassins, fanasticism on necros).

Overpowered, sure. That's the point. This franchise is not world of warcraft. It's not meant to be an e-sport, and it's not meant to be balanced. People play these games so that they can make their characters absurdly powerful and then trounce all over the enemies. Armed with the knowledge that people are so powerful, blizzard is free to release uber / optional content that's actually difficult and requires elite gear and planning ahead of time; rather than watering the content down so everyone can do it, get bored of it and go play Path of Exile or simply not play at all. Having difficult content, they could I don't know make it actually rewarding? Oh what a dream.


Spot on!

One critical element as to what makes Diablo 2 great
Blizz did a lot of awesome stuff for D3 such as the Combat but that needs to be backed up be a inventive customization with the parameter that IT IS OKEY TO BE OVER POWERED BEYOND ABSURD ITS NOT MENT TO BE BALANCED
I had a blue item on my highest level wizard in D2 which was a 37% MF Fortuitous ring of Fortune. I really like D3, but I just cant figure out why they did not make any use at all for the white items. I think sometimes I should keep a few of them I find, in hopes that someday runewords or something similar(I doubt they would use the same name) will make a comeback. What better way to stimulate an economy than to add a few more things to buy and sell to it? Imagine if charms, jewels, more gems, and white items(with the possibility of ethereal) were added to the game. I am not saying it would all of a sudden make the price of gold skyrocket, but it seems like a win/win for both the company(more transactions=$) and the players(better possibility of finding something to keep or sell).
02/03/2013 09:41 AMPosted by Hub
I had a blue item on my highest level wizard in D2 which was a 37% MF Fortuitous ring of Fortune. I really like D3, but I just cant figure out why they did not make any use at all for the white items. I think sometimes I should keep a few of them I find, in hopes that someday runewords or something similar(I doubt they would use the same name) will make a comeback.


lmao, I've actually been doing this. I have quite a few white Demolishers and Hellion Crossbows, with high +% Attack Speed and +% Damage, saved up incase they do something with whites.
look on the ground more often and for more reasons... this is good loot game

not game in which even someone find is better to run with the speed of the wind and stop only when some ray comes down.
When that 9-14 DPS weapon is Gull Dagger, and your damage is based off of a skill tree instead of being entirely focused on a stat stick with a big number on it, AND when that normal level weapon can be upgraded to an elite version of that same weapon using the Horadric Cube.....

Then it's EXCEPTIONAL or GODLY.

Edit: I don't really know how they can make the expansion "better" without releasing an entirely new game. New content, another act, and a higher level cap won't change the fact that really you're just stacking larger and larger numbers of stats on your character and when you swing your sword you're critting for more damage more of the time.


Underlined, italicized, and emboldened to highlight one of the most glaring flaws that should have never made it off of the drawing board.

Unless they completely change the way damage is calculated, weapons will always be the focus for every single character regardless of any other choices they may have made with their gear, skills, or runes.

Edit: To clarify; I am specifically talking about the lack of viable options for weapon upgrades in Diablo III because of the importance of a weapon's DPS.

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