Testing out the multipliers melting away elites on Mp8, I'll likely continue this thread for a long time in testings so y'all are welcome to join in adding yours or just commenting on mine so here we go! All tests were done with stable mobs as accurately as possible (no recording devices, just plain old stop watch, rounded hp addition & go.) So all mob HP is give or take a million, should all even out anyway so doesn't matter.

95% of testing was done with perma-freeze indefinite lockdown, a couple moved out of position but still ran it anyway since 90% of the fight was in position. About half were Elite Yellows so lower multipliers reflect those fights while higher ones reflect 3 and the highest 4 champion elites. The very highest multiplier represents 100% DF uptime with a horde pack.

Test Latency:

**58-62 ping**

Test damage:

**120K DPS**

Test APS:

**2.73 breakpoint**

Test CC:

**61.5% Base 68.5% ET CC (Deep Freeze 83.5% ET CC)**

Test MP:

**8**

Test mobs: Elites

#1 43M HP

24.5 seconds

1,700k DPS

14.75x multiplier

#2 36M HP

15.6 seconds

2,304K DPS

19.2x multiplier

#3 40M HP

18.7 seconds

2,139K DPS

17.8x multiplier

#4 47M HP

25.6 seconds

1,835K DPS

15.3x multiplier

#5 85mhp

43.7 seconds

1,945K DPS

16.2x multiplier

#6 62mHp

36.5 seconds

1,698K DPS

14.1x multiplier

#7 47mHP

28.65 seconds

1,640K DPS

13.6x multiplier

#8 54m HP

36.1 seconds

1495k DPS

12.46x multiplier

#9 41 mHP

17.8 seconds

2,303K DPS

19.2x multiplier

#10 69 mHP

38 seconds

1,815K dps

15.6x multiplier

**#11 68 mHP**

28.5 seconds

2,385K HP

19.9x multiplier

28.5 seconds

2,385K HP

19.9x multiplier

#12 45 mHP

24.6 seconds

1829K dps

15.2x multiplier

Average over

**12**elites:

Average damage:

**1.930 million dps**

Average multiplier:

**15.9x multiplier**

My next round of testing will likely be vs Bone Chill. If they average out the same then Deep Freeze is more beneficial because of more survivability and more freeze uptime. Bone Chill would be better for farming bosses for recipe drops.

Test Latency: 58-62 ping

GG.

15.9x multiplier is amazing though, Iirc the best multiplier was 10.5x only. I guess that 83.5 CC contributes a large portion of the multiplier.

02/06/2013 07:08 PMPosted by noviceTest Latency: 58-62 ping

GG.

15.9x multiplier is amazing though, Iirc the best multiplier was 10.5x only. I guess that 83.5 CC contributes a large portion of the multiplier.

Lol yah moving back to my hometown (900 miles closer to California) did help da pings and CM/WW performance for sure!

Yah it gets retarded on stuff like Horde or super amounts of trash mobs. That's why I'm still goaling for about 95-100% ET CC after DF....just after that point no one can ever group with me without cursing I'm sure...

02/06/2013 07:08 PMPosted by noviceIirc the best multiplier was 10.5x only

I doubt that was used with Deep Freeze and Electrify though, if so it was likely done on Ghom and not a group of elites where Electrify shines.

If all above is false than damn, that's the power of ET CC (and good latency) heh.

02/06/2013 07:45 PMPosted by noviceNah, on single target MW should have the same multiplier as SNS, because only your sheet DPS increases. So that 10.5x should be on multiple targets.

Who got the 10.5x? Wasn't that Aimless? Wasn't he using some kinda meteor build for that?

Anyway here are the results with Bone Chill instead of Deep Freeze:

Test Latency: 52-58 ping

Test damage: 120K DPS

Test APS: 2.73 breakpoint

Test CC: 61.5% Base 68.5% ET CC

Test MP: 8

Test mobs: Elites

#1 59M HP

36.7 seconds

1,607k DPS

13.4x multiplier

#2 45M HP

31.2 seconds

1,442K DPS

12x multiplier

#3 46M HP

17.75 seconds

2,599K DPS

**21.7x multiplier**

#4 56M HP

33.4 seconds

1,676K DPS

14x multiplier

#5 40mhp

23.8 seconds

1,680K DPS

14x multiplier

#6 49mHp

30.7 seconds

1,596K DPS

13.3x multiplier

#7 48mHP

36 seconds

1,333K DPS

**11.1x multiplier**

#8 63m HP

36 seconds

1,750k DPS

14.5x multiplier

#9 43 mHP

23.2 seconds

1,853K DPS

15.4x multiplier

#10 64 mHP

36.1 seconds

1,772K dps

14.7x multiplier

#11 42 mHP

19.5 seconds

2,153K HP

17.9x multiplier

#12 65 mHP

24.6 seconds

1805K dps

15x multiplier

Average over

**12**elites:

Average damage:1.772 million dps

Average multiplier:

**13.5x multiplier**

As expected the multipliers are more smooth without the abnormal spikes from Deep Freeze, however my experience with perma freeze were less smooth without the amazing 83% CC refreshes. This is where more DS and more crits comes into play with one exception on test #3 where the damage went crazy. I can only attest that to them being all stacked in one area where every twister thrown effected all 4 targets (like one big Ghom) multiplied by the effect of electrify. Overall the Mutlipliers seemed to be at a stable 14x for most tests unlike Deep Freeze.

But when it comes to Electrify dps and more lockdown and surviving, Deep Freeze is the clear choice as I predicted.

Tried it out. You weren't kidding about Electrify and Deep Freeze playing well together.

first i want to say thanks for bringing up this topic and doing this kind of extensive testing.

I'm also running a cm Wiz, but with bit lower values in cc (54,5 % unbuffed). Here are my stats:

Test Latency: ca. 50 ping (Europe)

Test damage: 200K DPS unbuffed with Scoundrel

Test APS: 2.84

Test CC: 57.5% (inclusive Scoundrel)

Test MP: 8, 10

Test mobs: Elites

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/daimpi-2602/hero/17854532

I did some quick testing yesterday and with SNS/Electrify/DF i could only get up to something around 1,4m edps which would be a multiplier of 7 although i had most of the time DF up. Sorry that i cant give you the numbers for every pack but as i mentioned above: this was just some quick and dirty testing. Also the numbers are not perfectly precise as i was using the same method as you (stoppwatch instead of vid. recording). But as you can easily see my multiplier is not even in the same category as yours. Against Azmo on mp7 i used a bit different spec (Bone Chill instead of DF and Crystal shell instead of diamond shards) an could get up to a multiplier of 6 without my scoundrel. What do you think is the reason for this stark difference between our multipliers? I thought that it might be due to the extrem high cc you're using (especially on ET) but could this be enough to get a multiplier !

**twice**! as high as mine?

If i look at loroese's Sim output (http://www.diablofans.com/topic/72851-wizard-cm-dps-simulator-release-version/) i would guess that your multiplier might be 10 - 20% higher than mince due to the additional CC. Though I know that his values will not be a really good match because of differences in the spec/gear i still think you can get a pretty good idea about the scale you're dealing with there. So any idea where this difference stems from / what i could improve is appreciated :)

My build stays unchanged:

Test Latency: ca. 50 ping (Europe)

Test damage: 200K DPS unbuffed with Scoundrel

Test APS: 2.84

Test CC: 57.5% (inclusive Scoundrel)

Test MP: 10 (Warriors Rest)

Test mobs: Elite Pack

Skillset: SNS/Electrify/DF

#1 56M HP

34 seconds

1,68k DPS

8.4x multiplier

#2 53M HP

35 seconds

1,51k DPS

7.6x multiplier

#3 52M HP

33 seconds

1,58k DPS

7.9x multiplier

#4 53M HP

33 seconds

1,61k DPS

8.0x multiplier

#5 72M HP

51 seconds

7.1x multiplier

Average over

**5**elites:

Average damage:1.558 million dps

Average multiplier:

**7.8x multiplier**

DF was up most of the time. What strikes me is the comparison of the Pack HP: My Average Pack Boss (yeah they were all yellow ^^) got 57M HP on

**MP10**whereas the average HP of your Packs on

**MP8**is 52M HP. Usually you would expect MP8 to be only about a third of the HP of MP10.

That brought me to a possible source for the difference: How have you calculated the Pack HP? Have you summed the HP of all the Mobs up to get the Pack HP or have you just picked the mob with the highest HP and set this as Pack HP? As you probably guess i used the latter method ^^

I'm not sure, but this seems to be the more reasonable calculation to me. The thing is: As a CM Wiz you're using quite a lot AoE Skills and if not AoE then they at least scale pretty well with the number of Monsters you're hitting. E.g. Shocking Aspect maybe has no AoE, but as your twisters crit more often with more mobs arround you, respectively there will also be more lightnings.

So if you end up doing about the same dmg to every mob arround you, whats the point of assessing the "overall dmg" (sum of all HP/s you're destroying)? Because this number just scales up and down with the mob density but is hard to compare and in respect to killspeed not very informative.

Ok, that were just the thoughts that came to my mind, m8b i'm even totally wrong with my suspicion of your Pack HP calc…

cheers :)

My build stays unchanged:

Test Latency: ca. 50 ping (Europe)

Test damage: 200K DPS unbuffed with Scoundrel

Test APS: 2.84

Test CC: 57.5% (inclusive Scoundrel)

Test MP: 8 (Warriors Rest)

Test mobs: Elite Pack

Skillset: SNS/Electrify/DF

#1 27M HP

18 seconds

1,500k DPS

7.5x multiplier

#2 28M HP

18 seconds

1,560k DPS

7.8x multiplier

#3 26M HP

19 seconds

1,370k DPS

6.8x multiplier

#4 25M HP

22 seconds

1,140k DPS

5.7x multiplier

#5 27M HP

18 seconds

1,500k DPS

8.4x multiplier

#6 25M HP

20 seconds

1,250k DPS

6.3x multiplier

#7 26M HP

20 seconds

1,300k DPS

6.5x multiplier

#8 26M HP

19 seconds

1,370k DPS

6.8x multiplier

#9 26M HP

26 seconds

1,630k DPS

8.1x multiplier

#10 56M HP

26 seconds

1,350k DPS

6.7x multiplier

Average over

**10**elites:

Average damage:1.397 million dps

Average multiplier:

**7.0x multiplier**

DF was up most of the time.

Both data tables were collected under nearly optimal conditions (don't had to move, perma dps, perma freeze) so it kinda represents the optimum i could get. Therefore the data is incomplete as all the runs where i could't find these conditions (e.g. RD, Molten Packs) aren't included.

Any chance you can repeat the testing for one of the set ups, only without Electrify, like just swap it to BM? So far we've seen a lot of math on electrify, but I haven't seen any in game comparisons.

02/09/2013 12:30 PMPosted by TobesCC on WW is worth about 10 times more than CC on other spells in terms of getting procs.

Not sure where you're getting this but it could be that CC on skill does a lot more than we think. I know CM refreshes turned out to be true.

Any chance you can repeat the testing for one of the set ups, only without Electrify, like just swap it to BM? So far we've seen a lot of math on electrify, but I haven't seen any in game comparisons.

Sure, to keep around the same dps I'd either have to use stretch time or MW force weapon. Force weapon likely best choice as stretch time puts me at 3 aps which would effect everything.

first i want to say thanks for bringing up this topic and doing this kind of extensive testing.

I'm also running a cm Wiz, but with bit lower values in cc (54,5 % unbuffed). Here are my stats:

Test Latency: ca. 50 ping (Europe)

Test damage: 200K DPS unbuffed with Scoundrel

Test APS: 2.84

Test CC: 57.5% (inclusive Scoundrel)

Test MP: 8, 10

Test mobs: Elites

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/daimpi-2602/hero/17854532

I did some quick testing yesterday and with SNS/Electrify/DF i could only get up to something around 1,4m edps which would be a multiplier of 7 although i had most of the time DF up. Sorry that i cant give you the numbers for every pack but as i mentioned above: this was just some quick and dirty testing. Also the numbers are not perfectly precise as i was using the same method as you (stoppwatch instead of vid. recording). But as you can easily see my multiplier is not even in the same category as yours. Against Azmo on mp7 i used a bit different spec (Bone Chill instead of DF and Crystal shell instead of diamond shards) an could get up to a multiplier of 6 without my scoundrel. What do you think is the reason for this stark difference between our multipliers? I thought that it might be due to the extrem high cc you're using (especially on ET) but could this be enough to get a multiplier !twice! as high as mine?

If i look at loroese's Sim output (http://www.diablofans.com/topic/72851-wizard-cm-dps-simulator-release-version/) i would guess that your multiplier might be 10 - 20% higher than mince due to the additional CC. Though I know that his values will not be a really good match because of differences in the spec/gear i still think you can get a pretty good idea about the scale you're dealing with there. So any idea where this difference stems from / what i could improve is appreciated :)

Hi Daimpi!

I can absolutely re-test for yah

I'm not sure but I doubt out of 20 or so testings I'd get the HP values wrong, they were rounded to a point but should only make a 1M difference at very max which wouldn't do much either way especially since it was averaged.

What I can do is start the stop watch in anticipation of me clicking a twister, I was starting it at about when 2 were up already and like I said I was throwing out ones that weren't perma or near perma so pretty good situations (there was movers in some testings) and DF was up a lot but yah you tested with DF uptime it seems to.

Anyway let me retest a couple good runs and what I can do is do a non-mara's amulet test (with higher CD, gives 23k dps) which obviously has no ET CC and 1.5% less CC (so more matches near yours).

I have a feeling that lots of CD kinda kills the modifier since CD is very random so if you're not continually raising APS and CC values while upping CD you'll get less and less of a modifier. Nothing can be done about that really. I have extremely low CD, I will guarantee that if I got more while even maintaining the same CC/aps levels my modifier will begin to drop.

If that's not the case than it's definitely the ET CC in conjunction with Electrify doing more than we think which I've always anticipated.

I'll find out soon for yah, appreciate your testings!

@MasterJayAny chance you can repeat the testing for one of the set ups, only without Electrify, like just swap it to BM? So far we've seen a lot of math on electrify, but I haven't seen any in game comparisons.

Sure, to keep around the same dps I'd either have to use stretch time or MW force weapon. Force weapon likely best choice as stretch time puts me at 3 aps which would effect everything.

I'm not sure what you mean about trying to keep the same dps. I meant just changing the electrify rune so your char sheet dps stays the same and thus seeing what the effect of electrify is from your testing. Obviously it will lower your multiplier but I'm curious just how much it changes.

02/13/2013 08:22 AMPosted by LoroeseI'm not sure what you mean about trying to keep the same dps. I meant just changing the electrify rune so your char sheet dps stays the same and thus seeing what the effect of electrify is from your testing. Obviously it will lower your multiplier but I'm curious just how much it changes.

Gotcha, non-electrify testing will be up soon! Here are some more electrify retests:

**121K dps, 61.5 CC, 68.5 % ET CC**

MP8 elites (random)

#1 45.6 M HP

20.1 seconds

2,268K DPS

Modifier: 18.7x

#2 66 M HP (Horde)

28.4 seconds

2,323K DPS

Modifier: 19.2x

#3 63 M HP (Extra HP)

30.3 seconds

2,079K DPS

Modifier: 17.2x

#4 56 M HP

30 seconds

1,866K DPS

Modifier: 15.4x

#5 73 M HP (Extra HP)

35.4 seconds

2,062K DPS

Modifier: 17x

#6 62 M HP

32.1 seconds

1,931K DPS

Modifier: 16x

#7 42 M HP

19.6 seconds

2,142K DPS

Modifier: 17.7x

**Average modifier: 17.3x**

Average damage: 2.09 million dps

Average damage: 2.09 million dps

02/25/2013 05:26 PMPosted by AimlessAmazing work Jay. Electrify really blows the doors off SNS. I sorta wish I got used to using no TP like u have forever so i has more skillz. I still like meets better with conflag. Now with no apoc problems I think they are about equal but Meets look cooler.

Thanks bud, it sure does but actually not as humongous as we're thinking. We're so used to measuring against Ghom tests for our multiplier which Aph was indicating wasn't the greatest thing to do, especially with Electrify obviously. Traditional CM, SNS, SNS+Electrify. Meteor builds, your build (name it yet? lol) all will preform much better modifier testings on elites rather than Ghom.

Ghom of course is just much easier to test with, elites you gotta redo a lot.. (oops a frozen hit before the lockdown cuz of ranged, redo on another elite, ect ect). Honestly I didn't do much redoing, maybe 30% of the time.

Anyway here is Blood Magic , (no electrify) testing.

#1 52 M HP

34.2 seconds

1,520K DPS

12.5x modifier

#2 42 M HP

22.7 seconds

1850K DPS

15.2x modifier

#3 51 M HP

32.2 seconds

1584K DPS

13.1x modifier

#4 47 M HP

32.2 seconds

1460K DPS

12.1x modifier

#5 54 M HP

37.2 seconds

1451K DPS

12 x modifier

#6 36 M HP

30.8 seconds

1169K DPS

9.7x modifier

#7 37 M HP

29.3 seconds

1263k DPS

10.4x modifier

**Tested Sheet DPS: 121k**

Tested Sheet CC: 61.5% CC

Tested WW CC modifier: 7% (total of 68.5% ET CC)

Average modifier: 12.1x

Average damage: 1.47 M DPS

Tested Sheet CC: 61.5% CC

Tested WW CC modifier: 7% (total of 68.5% ET CC)

Average modifier: 12.1x

Average damage: 1.47 M DPS

Not surprising, Electrify stomps all over non-runed electrify. So there it is Loresso! What I should have done is compared things like Venom, Force or even Time warp to push me to 3 aps vs 2.73 Electrify! Doom Doom doooom

That will be another project for another day (like tomorrow lol)

02/26/2013 06:00 AMPosted by LoroeseAwsome results, and thanks again for testing. That means the electrify rune itself is adding around 30-40% to your eDPS. That's a lot higher than I was expecting. Have you tried comparing your resuslts with Steve's DPS simulator? I think he has electrify included as an option.

Who's DPS simulator? No have not yet, gonna test 3 aps this morning! The Electrify results are kinda high and I'm guessing that's due to extra HP / horde mobs. Compared to my last test of 15.9x average I'd guess that the total running average over about 30 elites is 16.5 ish modifier, which is still significantly higher than 12.

I'm going to guess 3 aps with no electrify will fall around the 14x mark but we'll see!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709121181