The retarded AH is costing Flippers money

General Discussion
How long is it going to take for them to get this fixed. It costs me money because you can no longer [effectively] bid on items.

It also takes 20 minutes now to relist items.
BoA system will fix this when it comes out.
Exactly, my profits have taken a nosedive since the AH broke

FIX THE AH FOR GODS SAKE
Sigh. "Investment vehicle" is a term of art and doesn't apply to AH flipping.
02/01/2013 10:00 PMPosted by DWC
Uhm.. using the AH as an investment vehicle is against the terms of use or the end user license agreement or both.. So maybe coming to the blizzard official D3 forums and whining about this isn't the smartest move.


That's about the only fun in the game. Figures they would outlaw fun.

Serious... Anytime anyone puts RM into the AH, they are investing, so if this is your argument against flipping, you might have more success arguing with your chair. I think they have their hands full with people who actually violate the TOS.
youre doing it wrong
02/01/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Goodbrew
BoA system will fix this when it comes out.

No it won't.

Uhm.. using the AH as an investment vehicle is against the terms of use or the end user license agreement or both.. So maybe coming to the blizzard official D3 forums and whining about this isn't the smartest move.


Did I come in to some alternate reality world where the only answers people can give are stupider than anything a six-year-old can come up with.
02/01/2013 10:11 PMPosted by Ossian
Sigh. "Investment vehicle" is a term of art and doesn't apply to AH flipping.


+10

The people who use the term "investment vehicle" to combat AH flipping have no idea what they are talking about.
AH flipping keeps the market in good shape.

Can you imagine a market where no one flips?

I cannot. Besides the initial consequence that you may find some items cheaper, the entire economy will shrink.

Soon you won't even find an item on the AH worty buying. Same goes with your gear which are just worthless to even list them.
AH flipping keeps the market in good shape.

Can you imagine a market where no one flips?

I cannot. Besides the initial consequence that you may find some items cheaper, the entire economy will shrink.

Soon you won't even find an item on the AH worty buying.


I think that, for many people, that's the point, and it shows a fundamental schism in gaming philosophies. Look at it this way:

Let's take a simplified version of the used car market, and assume that there are only two types of buyers: those who only value a vehicle for its usefulness, and those who only value a vehicle as a product to be sold. To make it easier, we'll call the first group "users," and the second one "dealers." Users buy cars to use them, and dealers buy cars to sell them at a profit. Although there are obviously other reasons why people buy cars, for this example, pretend those reasons (and types of buyers) don't exist.

It's in the dealer's best interest to make money quickly, because there are always more cars being dumped on the market. The dealer knows that, the longer (s)he sits on an unsold car, the harder it will be to make any money. That's a risk the dealer takes, no matter how well any given model sells. The dealer invests money in the car, and in doing so, takes an (informed) gamble. When cars don't sell, the dealer cannot invest money in other cars, because that money is tied up in unsold inventory. Profit is the single overriding goal. Like in that Metallica song - "nothing else matters."

Now for the other group - the users. Users want cars to perform a task, like transporting the users to work, or carrying cargo, or any number of things that a car can do. The specifics don't matter too much, because the basic theme - utility - is the same. Sometimes, users sell their cars, and sometimes they buy, as their needs change. Either way, their purchases tend to stick with them for a while, until their usefulness is outgrown.

Dealers buy lower, and sell higher because they spend more time in the marketplace, and know more about the trends in pricing. The user generally makes less-optimal purchases (and sales), because they have less of an idea of what the market will handle. However, the sub-optimal nature of these transactions can be seen as the cost of additional utility, or even the "depreciation" of the item. Even though you paid more than you might have otherwise, as a user, you're not paying for a one-time transaction - you're paying what you think the item's utility is worth. If you do anything else, then you are a trying to be a dealer, which will probably lead to disappointment.

I think that the real problem is that the interests of these groups clash. Users don't want to feel screwed by overpayment for utility, and dealers don't want to feel screwed out of their profits by the system. I'm not well-versed in the ToS to know if flipping is against one of the arcane tenets held within, but assuming it isn't, then both groups are legally playing the game, albeit with different goals in mind, and different victory conditions.

My example is overly simplistic, as is my analysis. I'm sure that the more well-versed among you will shoot holes through every aspect, and rightfully so. My background is in urban planning and public affairs, so my understanding of economics leaves much to be desired, to say the least. Hopefully they made some sense, and will help each group see the other perspective.
02/02/2013 12:02 AMPosted by Whiteraven
I'm not well-versed in the ToS to know if flipping is against one of the arcane tenets held within,


Gold flipping is 100% legal, cash flipping is more muddy. That's all the versing you need :)

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