Imagine a Bucket...

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I don't get it. Am I the bucket?
02/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Drothvader
Imagine a 5 gallon bucket

I has a bucket
Fixing the bucket problem? make people thirsty.

This is how.

Take the fixed properties on a legendary you own.

Now say if you find a badly rolled version of the legendary, currently it is worthless to you, since you have a better version.

Now lets consider for a minute a system in which you could take two versions of any legendary and destroy the the badly rolled one to boost one of the fixed stats on the good one, lets call it a 1% boost to quality capping at maximum roll and minimum roll for degenerative properties.

This does not affect random props that may be on the item.

It is now possible to obtain a version of that legendary, with perfect rolls on fixed properties. Finally lets put the restriction account binding on any item that is improved.

Buckets still full, but people are thirsty
I think instead of a bucket you should think of it as a group of sifts

Each item quality is a different size, and they fall through the sifts based on value
park a horse near the bucket
I think they need to make crafting more tempting. To get a top end piece even with the new crafting recipes will take hundreds to thousands of rolls. No one is going to invest the millions of gold on a such a small chance to get a perfect piece. People would spend hundreds of millions of gold if they new that by the time they crafted x amount of pieces they would get the one they want. I can think of a couple improvements to crafting that would make it worth my while to invest in crafting good gear.

1. They could make it to where you craft 1 piece and then can re-roll a single affix on that item at a time. This way you can roll a crappy affix over and over until you got the one you wanted. Then blizzard could work out the cost to make it suit their needs. Maybe 1million gold to re-roll an affix. This would be very tempting to me. I would invest a ton in crafted gear because I would feel like I would eventually get the golden piece I've been searching for.

2. If they want to keep their same system, at least make the good stuff have a higher chance to roll. The odds of getting a trifecta amulet for example is so low right now that no one is going to do it when they know that there millions of gold can get a piece from the AH with the stats they want. I would much rather save 500million gold and buy an amulet from AH than to craft 500 amulets with the new account bound recipes.

3. If blizz doesn't like those ideas, they could make more guaranteed affixes. For example, guarantee a good main stat, crit chance, and all resist. Then there would be 3 random affixes on the amulet to deal with. The top end people would roll a bunch to get the perfect piece and the low level people could craft 1 and have a piece they could use.

Plain and simple, they need to make a sink in the game and they need make it viable for all players. If the people with only 10 million could craft a decent piece that they could use, they would. If the people with billions of gold new that they would get a perfect piece for the billions they have, they would spend their money too.

just my opinion though.
my 2c : part of the issue revovles around abilities and character builds. the current meta is 1h weapons with life steal, crit damage, loh, or armor with and crit chance, crit damage and main stats. with builds that are successful (ie the bulk of players) only relying on these, the "drops" falling into the bucket will move based on these attributes. if character builds were viable using other factors, and not relying on huge crits, then the "bucket" will get bigger on its own. i play a wiz and a monk, and the only way i do damage is with big crits. there is nothing else that comes remotely close to what i can do using any other strategy, so there is the other half of the issue.

so...make other builds competitive, and the ah gets less toxic

/2c

alternately, make item editing, using multiple items (eg 5 amulets or 3 daggers) to change an item of the same type, giving a chance to change a common affix would drasticaly help
good concept...but there's likely no way to make it happen...and if it can then do it up.
I do not fully understand this post and point and the analogy is very flawed.

The AH is not limited as a "bucket" has limitations.

Being a Database Administrator for decades and working for very large companies the AH is a drop in the bucket from a database perspective.

Databases which store the AH information doesn't really have limits on how much you can put in there. The exception is the amount of storage allocated to the database which can define the number of "items". Many years in the past when storage was expensive this could have been a consideration, however nowadays storage is so cheap (whether it be internal or SAN storage like through EMC or Hitachi or other vendors) the amount of records to be stored and accessed has almost no limit as a bucket has. The problem is typically not in the data itself but configuration and application accessing the data (from a performance issue) only.

The more "in the bucket" means more supply. this means prices drop and make things more affordable. This has been shown over and over and over again with what people may call bis items such as Skorn, Vile Wards, Mempo Helms, Witching Hour Belts, not to mention SET items. The more out there the more supply (more drops in the old bucket persay) and the more sellers are forced to compete with one another to sell their items thus driving down prices This situation has High supply and medium to high demand. With some items there is way more supply than demand and the prices for those types of items have plummeted to unbelievably low prices. The more true godly item rolls mean less drops in the bucket and they will charge top dollar as there is small supply but high demand.

If one spends time reading these forums there are multiple things people have complaints about. One complaint in particular is the notion "everything on the AH is too expensive".

Salvaging items is interesting, however I fail to see the real benefit of this. People constantly look for upgrades via farming and if they are unable to find their needed upgrades they sell items they have (or hope to sell) in order to get more gold to be able to purchase the item upgrade they want/need for their character.

Salvaging produces resources which can be sold (again through the AH) or used for things such as crafting. However the problem with the current salvage system is this:

1> you gain no gold. people don't salvage much because they would rather vendor their items to obtain gold for their d3 account to actually get an upgrade.

2> Crafting (as has been talked about many times) cannot compete with most legendaries out there which give guaranteed affixes (ie Mempo gives Primary Stat, high AR, ASI, Life% and a socket). Not having guaranteed stats other than a primary stat for crafting a rare hat means you have many rolls to make just to get one that could equal a 1m mempo out there. Most likely you will spend 20m of crafting or more to get one to equal a base mempo with the stats it has. Same can be said for many other BiS items.

3> Crafting Affixes should have more guaranteed affixes (see point #2 above) to even get people to try it out.

4> Crafting is too costly. Similar to my example above of a Mempo hat. Since there are thousands of them out there on the AH it is easier and cheaper most likely in the long run to just get one than trying to craft one. I like the Gem Crafting as it is just "simplistic". A few gems... a few tomes of secrets and some gold and boom you have a guaranteed gem with guaranteed stats. I don't like comparing games much but if you do look at the WoW game.... when you craft you know what you are getting for the cost involved. Here in D3 when looking at "exhalted grand" rare plans often times this requires 45 essence, 5 tears and 13 tomes. This means just to craft 1 grand item with NO guaranteed affixes (like most weapons) one has to "salvage" 45 items for the essence and this doesn't even include the gold cost to craft one of which and you also just lost out on probably 90k worth of gold from salvaging those 45 items to get the essence.

By the time someone crafts a good item that would be an upgrade to them there is a very high probability that item will instead be sold on the GAH/RMAH to make attempts at recouping their gold they lost on the countless junk ones which were crafted.

In PTR I've made over 100 amulets (gold cost for each amulet = 100k). Out of those 100+ amulets I've crafted I would say 4 might sell cheaply if they weren't BoA. However sale price would never even cover my crafting costs of just the gold and gems (if they had to be purchased) itself as I spent over 10m gold to craft 100 amulets.

People want gold. They don't want essence as all have said is simply a gold sink with virtually no return on any crafting investment. They cannot craft many BiS item affixes (ie ASI/CD//CC on a belt as just one example as compared to legendaries).

I do not believe high supply cheapens the game. What cheapens the game is nerfs to the game in conjunction to introduction of higher and higher gear/weapons. It is common now for most players to have what would have been considered godly gear back in the 1.0.3 days for cheap. So the gear/weapons have gotten stronger and the game has become easier with nerfs to reflect damage or molton or monster damage or monster hp etc etc etc. The game has become too easy and with all the good gear now available for cheap. It is my opinion the damage aspects should never have been nerfed from monsters/elites to make the game still competitive to a degree.

Last point about reducing the "drip". If you were to reduce the drip of items. That will make the items increase in price and even frustrate more people. Which in turn will force them to raise their prices on their gear to make up gold for the items they want.. and so the cycle goes on.

If Crafting is to be made viable as a whole and entice people to use this functionality by salvaging things then they need to overhaul the plans. Example: 1h exorcist bow. you might have a .01% chance (yes .. 1/10th of 1 percent) to roll 2 sockets.... or the same chance to get a socket on a bracer or shoulder..... maybe add CD as an affix to hats to compete with mempos/andy hats... pants that could potentially have 3 sockets instead of normal max of 2. I think you see where I'm going with this.

One has to change Rares to compete not with other rares. Once has to change rare crafting to at least have a chance to compete with legendary affixes and potentially outperform a legendary. At this stage of the game this virtually is not possible as rares are limited to 6 affixes for the most part and some legendaries go higher than that.
I don't know if this point has been made, but the bucket doesn't overflow because of the fact that every player can only list ten items. In theory the bucket should get better and better water because the water is only a snapshot of what each player can put up at any one time. Therefore, the problem isn't that lots of items are going in, the problem is that the currency to buy the water keeps rising because the amount of gold in the game keeps increasing. The grains of suger should be appearing more and more, likewise, the water should be getting better and better, i.e. as I find better items, I'll list them, what doesn't sell gets destroyed and I will continue to list better items. The problem is that the tasty water and the grains of sugar COST soooo much. The amount of gold in the economy is the problem. The deflation of the currency to buy the water is the problem. The botters who make tons of gold is the problem, not the bucket. The bucket is finite. It doesn't overflow, it just gets replaced with tastier and tastier water and more and more grains of sugar. If the bucket was overflowing then the cost of the items should go DOWN not UP. More and more water in the bucket should make the items CHEAPER not more EXPENSIVE. What is making it more expensive is the 24 hour botting that is deflating the value of the currency.
02/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Drothvader
- Make crafting worthwhile.


This is the best bet. Both the blacksmith and jeweler need to offer more. Perhaps allow the jeweler to infuse the power of the gems (for a buff depending on the jewel, would be like durability but no repair) into your items at the cost of gold and materials? BOA items that Blizzard wants to put in will also destroy the demand in the AH for quite a few items imo due to them being the absolute best in several categories.

I think Blizzard made a mistake by not fixing what they already have and trying to please the crowd and adding more junk to the junkyard.

02/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Drothvader
- This can only be done by making the game better.


Won't happen, most players who left Diablo 3 in a rage won't be looking back. Other games will come out and D3 will eventually be forgotten.
02/08/2013 10:24 AMPosted by BubbaGump
The problem is typically not in the data itself but configuration and application accessing the data (from a performance issue) only.


Good points BubbaGump but, I see this 'accessing application' as part of the bucket(I am a web-programmer). Obviously they are having trouble with this application at the moment. Maybe it has to do with the load or with malicious scripts - we will probably never know.
The problem with you analogy Droth, is that you assume the bucket is finite.

In a video game world, the bucket is infinite, relatively speaking.


No it's not. You see the AH lagging and not responding right now? That's the bucket buckling.

The servers can only handle so much. People don't realize how many players/bots/scripts are actually hitting that AH right now.


They will just make a bigger bucket. Problem solved.

It's being made much more complicated than it needs to be on this thread.
02/07/2013 08:17 PMPosted by Zyron
3-make high quality items/gear, more tempting to salvage, much more.


This is a good idea!
1) We find a way to consistently drain the bucket. (We give players an incentive to salvage)
- Make crafting worthwhile.

2) We expand the bucket. (Add more players)
- This can only be done by making the game better.
Clearly, you need more holes in your bucket.

I.e. if an item doesn't sell, get the players to pay a % of their listing price to get it back in their inventory.


This seems like a brilliant idea to me. It'd be a gold sink, and encourage realistic pricing. Over the long run it should bring costs down. I'd think that a 5% "restocking fee" would be appropriate.
I've been accumulating crafting supplies since the beginning, as if I'm going to use them. I WANT to use them. Maybe if it was cheaper? I find mysefl saving my money for gah items.

I really do WANT to use it though.
Get rid of the bucket, let me find my own water.
02/08/2013 10:56 AMPosted by Villein
The problem is typically not in the data itself but configuration and application accessing the data (from a performance issue) only.


Good points BubbaGump but, I see this 'accessing application' as part of the bucket(I am a web-programmer). Obviously they are having trouble with this application at the moment. Maybe it has to do with the load or with malicious scripts - we will probably never know.


I've said this in other posts (regarding the latency/lag regarding the ah ... and sorry this is off topic from the actual thread itself). I believe from a timing perspective this latency/lag for the AH ties into the PTR Launch. I feel the latency/lag we are all feeing in the AH has more to do with this than anything else. I know there are botters and auto-it scripters out there dealing with things on the ah but do not think there has been such an increase in that type of activity to cause the signifcant issues the community is experiencing. I think it might have more to do with them insta-doubling the ah side and copying all the current AH stuff into PTR AH table or even sharing the same table with a column in the table indicating it is a PTR item or Live item. No proof of this of course but only theory. But seems these issues weren't around before PTR went live. could be coincidental but I would not think it the case myself.

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