Barbarian game balancing

General Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 4 9 Next
reduce base damage to 206%
reduce smash to make 306% in tota


the hell.....................
barbs already have sh*te damage in pvp and rely on rend. ( not to mention an soj like that would cost billions )

monks have empowered wave to reduce spirit cost, they can find items with spirit regeneration and use skills like quickening to get spirit up fast.
@Forelle
it is there are videos of it up go google it, and glad to help. im not comeing to the table with just theory craft its also in pratice. the exact break down of how you would do it is this.
mara's & stone required. you then you would take unforgiveing and take the barbarian set to generate even more fury. if you do not already have a full fury bar you would then walk up to a target and auto attack till fury bar is full.
At this point in an ideal world and these ability are base line to the build is to go run like the wind then pop wrath. at this point wrath and is constantly fueled by hoa in junction with the passive and the set bonus.
does that clear it up?
you can also get hoa sheilds too.

Edit:after reading all these later posts it seem every one else was in the same boat as you but 2 people for actualy understanding the build. it has crazy requirements and is just plain godly if you are able to do it.

03/01/2013 02:09 PMPosted by Xort
The barbarian class with the right amount of gear required for this build breaks the game in the since of game balance. all other classes even with items such as SoJ and Mara's have their largest attack ability sitting either on a cool down or have a fairly expensive cost equaling to 50% of their resource bar.


What's the right amount? Sum of gear worth 10,000 gold? 10M gold? 1B gold?

To bring the ability in line with the rest of the game I propose these changes to the skill.
Increase fury cost by 10
reduce base damage to 206%
reduce smash to make 306% in total


Might as well take the skill out of the barbarian's skill set.

What these three changes will do with out destroying the build in the least is this.


If your definition of destroying something is making it better, then you're correct: your changes will not make the it better!

I am sure I will have player response of how expensive it is to accomplish this build. Price is not what I am trying to address but actual game balance.


It's very expensive to make it work --- especially for an ability that hits for a very small area (even smaller than with the smash rune).


Im not addressing the economical side of this issue as I said in the original post. only from a game balancing perspective. not trying to put you down but give something more constructive then just remove the ability then, or explain how expensive it is.
Maybe a HotA barb with such a build could say something how easy it is to spam the skill

HotA makes you immobile and allows you to prolong WotB against elites in high MP and are melee/in front of you. You only hit things that are directly in front of you. You can spam it a few times (only start at high/max fury), but then you see your fury decrease and you need to use your fury generator to increase your fury. The OP is a troll.
03/01/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Garthandal
blue post would be awesome

Here i will simulate one for you:

We are happy with the way HOTA works at this time but will keep an eye on it in the future.


ROFL
03/01/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Kiro
If you really would like to split hairs ww is just second best and is not even close to the strength of hoa

Your knowledge on this subject astonishes me.
wow, Im done here, I got my jollies, thank OP
Another whining post about barbs from a person who doesn't even play barb.

Here's an idea, instead of whining about barbs, roll a barb and start playing one.
For the skill to have a 100% crit chance, without any other Fury modifiers, you need to already have 80% crit chance. To achieve anything close to 80% crit chance, you would need:

- 5 Base Crit Hit
- 5 Ruthlessness
- 10 Weapon master (and strictly using axes/maces)
- 44/54 Max Crit roll on all items that are allowed Crit Chance two handed or 1h/shield
- 1 Lamentation Mighty Legendary Belt
- 1 Inna's Temperance Monk Set pants
= 66/76% crit hit chance IF you've maxed out every single critical hit chance you can get on items

At full 100 Fury, HOTA has 20% extra crit chance, so 76+20 = 96%

If you go pure crit, I don't think you can get +max fury items to my recollection. So yes, you CAN get close to 100% crit chance with HOTA, but it takes every max crit hit chance roll you can get. I'm fairly well geared, and I only land at 50% with my SoJ on.

Also, keep in mind HOTA/Smash has a proc coefficient of .8. So that means only 80% of your theoretical 100% crit chance will actually return any fury with Into the Fray. It will ONLY return Fury if you can get HOTA below 15 Fury, and that means stacking as much -HOTA gear as you can. -HOTA can come from shields, some legendary rings/amulet, and weapons. Scoring a +crit hit and a -hota affix on any of those is slim to none.

I'd say it's pretty balanced as it is considering it takes a hell of a lot of dedication, time, and coin to make it happen.
Btw Garthandal try untraining the first skill of your scoundrel. hes uselss with a burzia if you have the first skill trained. you can also get the legendary neck, star of what ever that has freeze on hit and it rolls aps too.

For the skill to have a 100% crit chance, without any other Fury modifiers, you need to already have 80% crit chance. To achieve anything close to 80% crit chance, you would need:

- 5 Base Crit Hit
- 5 Ruthlessness
- 10 Weapon master (and strictly using axes/maces)
- 44/54 Max Crit roll on all items that are allowed Crit Chance two handed or 1h/shield
- 1 Lamentation Mighty Legendary Belt
- 1 Inna's Temperance Monk Set pants
= 66/76% crit hit chance IF you've maxed out every single critical hit chance you can get on items

At full 100 Fury, HOTA has 20% extra crit chance, so 76+20 = 96%

If you go pure crit, I don't think you can get +max fury items to my recollection. So yes, you CAN get close to 100% crit chance with HOTA, but it takes every max crit hit chance roll you can get. I'm fairly well geared, and I only land at 50% with my SoJ on.

Also, keep in mind HOTA/Smash has a proc coefficient of .8. So that means only 80% of your theoretical 100% crit chance will actually return any fury with Into the Fray. It will ONLY return Fury if you can get HOTA below 15 Fury, and that means stacking as much -HOTA gear as you can. -HOTA can come from shields, some legendary rings/amulet, and weapons. Scoring a +crit hit and a -hota affix on any of those is slim to none.

I'd say it's pretty balanced as it is considering it takes a hell of a lot of dedication, time, and coin to make it happen.


I feel like no one reads my posts. Your almost right but your leaveing out alot of stuff.

animosity, ruthlessness, weapon master, immortal king set, mara's, soj, and other misc max fury items or stats on gear pieces. you stack max fury, cc, and fury reduction. 3rd time i have explained it now.

and once again how does the cost of an item have any thing do do with this.... every keeps asking the same questions.
Btw Garthandal try untraining the first skill of your scoundrel. hes uselss with a burzia if you have the first skill trained. you can also get the legendary neck, star of what ever that has freeze on hit and it rolls aps too.


Star of what ever that is...is that the technical term now? lol@ you trying to tell a paragon 100 and one of the most experienced ww barbs on the forum how to play.

You're mad about trolls in your thread? Looks like it's time to look in the mirror.

Why don't you go ahead and try to build a barb with 5-IK, a mara's with -5 reduction, a skull grasp with -4 reduction, a soj with -5, and a shield with -5, and use animosity and unforgiving and show us just what crazy DPS you can achieve with such a combo. (Here's a hint, it won't be obscenely high, even provided that you throw the billions upon billions needed)
actualy hes very avg, i know much better ww barbarians that are not even paragon 100. I am attempting to be helpful and explain thing to players as to provide a better understand of the game.
and yes i have already, you need alot of gear but then when i go try mp 10 i just stand still and hold one button then wait about 18 seconds later the extra hp affix elite on mp10 dies. just need alot of str and cd to compliment it.
I completely disagree. Despite what a strong skill HotA is, the vast majority of barbs don't use it and just use pure sprint/ww. It's not easy to make HotA spammable even with (very pricey) HotA reduction gear.

Increasing the fury cost would be bad enough, but decreasing the damage by as much as what you proposed is simply absurd. It'd make bash:punish a stronger skill despite being a pure fury generator...


gear price is not the issue though, its bringing the build/play style in line with the rest of the game.
You say it not easy to obtain but it can be obtained. What I proposed may not be the right idea of how to rework the skill but at the same time having a build that most certainly can achieve 100% crit chance on a 406% damage attack is no where near what one would call "balanced"

Why don't you ask for other classes to be buffed instead of trying to get someone else's class nerfed?

What do you gain exactly for getting barb nerfed? The satisfaction?(sp?) you just annoyed everyone's who is enjoying barb? As far as i know barbarian are not stealing your raid spot


This is also another option that can be explored. how ever more often then not when one class has a excessively power build or design it general means that it must be tuned down, but if they decide not to then yes tuning every thing else up is also one way to fix it.


Gear is an issue if there is only a small range of gear that would make it work like you said. Let's say that it would take around 500 million to a billion gold to pull it off. Where you would be very close to godly gear just to even come close to having it work that way. If this is true then gear is a factor.

Now if it is doable in any gear that a barbarian normally uses like with Sprint/WW. Then I would say yes it is indeed in need of fixing. But if it is very expensive and needs special affixes to pull it off. Then no way does it need changing. That would be like saying take away the wolf helm. So the barbarian cannot transform into a werewolf in D2. Just because I do not like barbs that have that helm that gives them that ability.
Alright, yes only about 1% of the entire population of all of d3 has the ability or gear to pull it off. its extremely hard but it is doable. so i could assume then if the gear options do open up and it becomes viable for players with smaller amounts of gold to build you would then support a redesign?
03/01/2013 03:45 PMPosted by Kiro
Alright, yes only about 1% of the entire population of all of d3 has the ability or gear to pull it off. its extremely hard but it is doable. so i could assume then if the gear options do open up and it becomes viable for players with smaller amounts of gold to build you would then support a redesign?


If most of the barbs could easily use it with average gear AND if this build could be used to actually play the game (doing the quests and/or farming, not speedkills on Azmodan) then I would support a redesign.

Edit: I think you can compare this very much to the 0 dog build of the WD. Very few WD can do it, very few can afford it because it requires very special gear, which isn't cheap at all (from what I have seen). If now every second WD starts to gear up like that and has a skill he can spam endlessly, people might also ask for a redesign (in gear or skill).
y u do dis
Im glad people are looking into how it works, my only goal is addressing game balance on the hole.
Thing like 0 dogs and cm I belive should be changed, as they are concepts that render all boss fights, quests, and farming to a moot state. I am mearly only covering just the hoa side of it all.
bringing classes into a ballenced state would improve the game, as it stands all classes are pigeon holed into 2 build designs and always one build being better by far with out even a candle being held to it but then putting a 6bill price tag when looking at total gear costs. wd its 0 dogs, barb its hoa, dh its calamity/dml, wiz its cm, it was snap shot for monk not sure what it is now.

I do not want all classes to become the same and I don't want all builds to play the same. but bringing such builds to a down to earth state would allow people to try more builds that are viable.
Right now we are not at this point with d3 due to poor itemization design and not enough testing because the entire project was rushed.
The Barbarian as a class is in need of some modification with the hammer of the ancients build.
Right now a barbarian with proper gear for the build no longer auto attacks while having 100% crit chance on a 406% weapon damage attack with the attack actually generating fury vs costing fury to cast.

The reasoning for the need of a change to this skill is because the design is not in line with dps compared to any other class regardless of build except for maybe infinite zombie dogs or also know as 0 dogs. The barbarian class with the right amount of gear required for this build breaks the game in the since of game balance. all other classes even with items such as SoJ and Mara's have their largest attack ability sitting either on a cool down or have a fairly expensive cost equaling to 50% of their resource bar. Even with out the additional items to remove/reduce the cost from hammer of the ancients it only costs 1/5 of the fury bar.
None of these part of hammer of the ancients are to powerful alone, but when the attack becomes a fury generator even against destructible items while having a 100% critical hit chance as a 406% weapon damage attack with no cool down it becomes a problem of game balance.
Then make it aoe.......

To bring the ability in line with the rest of the game I propose these changes to the skill.
Increase fury cost by 10
reduce base damage to 206%
reduce smash to make 306% in total

What these three changes will do with out destroying the build in the least is this. The attack would now only generate fury on 2 or more mobs so they may no longer be able to recast a 406% weapon damage attack as a fury generator on a single target while still viable for multiple targets.
The weapon damage MUST be brought down, no one has an attack they can cast over and over with 100% resource gain and no loss and 100% critical hit chance while cost only equaling 1/5th of the maximum resource bar.

I am sure I will have player response of how expensive it is to accomplish this build. Price is not what I am trying to address but actual game balance.

Wyatt Cheng said in an interview how he likes the concept of a player feeling they have broken the game by taking an ability to the extreme(ex:cm wiz, 0 dog, HoA) and I agree such things are very fun, but he also touched on how they also do not intend to allow players to create such type of infinite spells or combos to be left in en-defiantly. Does the blizzard staff intend to go in the same direction of game balance as they intended when asked in previous interviews or has there been a change in the census?


oh no not another " i'm a crybaby want barb nerf posts" .. dude get a life and go cry to yo moma instead of the forums.
How do you get this HotA gear? I can't even search for it in the AH?
actualy hes very avg, i know much better ww barbarians that are not even paragon 100. I am attempting to be helpful and explain thing to players as to provide a better understand of the game.
and yes i have already, you need alot of gear but then when i go try mp 10 i just stand still and hold one button then wait about 18 seconds later the extra hp affix elite on mp10 dies. just need alot of str and cd to compliment it.

I saw nothing helpful in your opening post, just a call for nerfs which won't help anyone. And if you've really got such an impressive barbarian, why cower behind a silver league starcraft 2 profile, and why not show some videos. Obviously you're lightyears ahead of all us, show us how its done.
03/01/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Garthandal
You don't even have a barb, what does it matter to you? How bout we nerf Loaded for Bear, it seems OP to me and I have never even used it.


DH's can cast it twice and they are out of hatred, hatred isn't like fury, it regens very slowly.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum