I don't get multi-platform negativity

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What is with Blizzard's obsession with the word 'epic'? There is nothing epic about D3. Such a disaster.

Many people theorized that the game was dumbed down for consoles before it even released for PC, guess they were right. Also, can the blues beat around the bush any more? I'd love it if one day they just came out with a straight answer


This is what Blizzard did to us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_FefWkeQT4

I hope you like arrested development.

Fun game = a matter of personal opinion. I think this game has great potential, but it has horrible RNG and no way to actually measurably work towards something. There are no specific bosses you can kill for particular upgrades. No recipes you can collect mats for to craft consistently. Everything is based on RNG and if the RNG gods don't shine on you at all you can spend days and days playing and walk away feeling like you haven't accomplished a damn thing.


Kinda like how bad game = a matter of personal opinion. Funny how that works.

As to the rest of what you said, in that respect I do agree with you - the RNG could use a lot of tweaking. This however does not make the game bad, just makes grinding a specific thing annoying if you're too poor to AH it.


I don't need to have played an NCSoft game to formulate an opinion about a game where even the blue posters can make flippant remarks about how bad their RNG loot system is. The RNG isn't just in drops, but rolls on the drops. It's a double layer and for ME (this is personal opinion, just to clarify) it's simply too much. Especially in a game where you don't really have direct comparison or competition with other players. We don't stand side by side in town, we don't run damage meters on raids.. so why make it such a horrible grind? I'd rather get smaller, incremental upgrades that have to wait weeks on end to find a piece with enough value for me to even have a shot at BUYING an upgrade. Yeah.. buying. Very heroic.. shopping for gear... lol


Again with the whole personal opinion thing. Odd how the personal opinion of the whiner (you) is somehow supposed to carry more weight than the personal opinion of the guy that says 'hey I like it, quitcherwhinin' (me).

Oh, and yes you do need to have played other games in order to justify a statement about how 'purposefully' terrible the grind can be. Again, I agree with you that the RNG is pretty irritating, but what you people either ignore or simply don't notice is that due to Diablo's loot system (account-wide everything, pretty much nothing ever binds) you have every opportunity to make some bank or find interesting things for alts, even if the specific item you're farming doesn't drop or doesn't drop in the right iteration. But based on the other threads I've seen here where people complain about how poor they are, and then about how hard it is to read items on the ground or how we should make demonic essences a different color so people don't have to pick up all those pesky yellows..... yeah, why don't they just insert and IV and mainline your loot, would that make it easier for you? There you go, and here's your blankie too.


Or what? You'll jump in and defend Blizzard with your last breath? Offer a different opinion, but don't expect everyone to revere a game just because Blizzard makes it. They took a game with great potential and turned it into something that has generated the worst, most negative forum player feedback I've ever seen in a game. For many players (opinion) it seems like they simply phoned it in based on franchise popularity and a solid Blizz fan base. Hell, they even were so lame about it they gave it away as a promo for subs in their real money maker.


Why do you keep turning it around to defending Blizzard, defending the logo, etc? Again, it doesn't matter who develops the game; what matters is, is it fun? And I enjoy the heck out of it. I'm also enjoying calling out the comprehension/expectation fail that is rampant in this thread.

But yeah, go ahead and keep on keepin' on about how the entire D3 development process was basically a ginormous copy paste (with deliberate dumbing-down just to hurt your feelings!). Meanwhile, I made millions in gemstone sales while typing this, and I loves it.
02/25/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Lylirra
The argument is that the console versions has already had an effect on the design of the game some time during development. The decision to make versions for consoles meant that several aspects of the game had to be redesigned so that it can accommodate console gamers and as such, it resulted in the game being "dumbed down".


This particular argument is certainly making its rounds. And, in most cases, it's being used to validate the viewpoints of people who disagree with how Diablo III was designed. While having those disagreements is fine, blaming console for why they even exist is a pretty poor scapegoat.

No, the PC version of Diablo III was not designed for console from the beginning. It was developed for the PC with one major goal in mind: provide players with an awesome hack-and-slash computer game that's both fun and engaging. Whether or not we achieved that goal is certainly up for debate within this community, but it doesn't make it any less real or valid. All the decisions we made when developing Diablo III -- including combat, skills, character controls, user interface, and itemization -- were ones we believed would deliver a great online experience, and the same can be said for the improvements we've made since launch. These decisions were not hindered (i.e. "dumbed down") by the development of a PlayStation version or altered to accommodate it.

For clarity, the PS3 version of Diablo III is based on the PC version and will include many of the same features as the PC game, including content all the way up to patch 1.0.7. From there, it's being tailored specifically for the PlayStation platform and will feature a redesigned control scheme, camera perspective, and UI.

So, while there may be some players who don't like how Diablo III was designed for PC, the PlayStation version of the game was ultimately predicated by the PC experience (not vice-versa). Therefore, if you don't like the skill system, the inclusion of the auction house, or how itemization works, that's fine, but please try to attribute those disagreements to the right place.
Even if you say that...there's still some players that will not believe it :(
02/25/2013 05:23 PMPosted by Furn
Even if you say that...there's still some players that will not believe it :(


Like me...
So you're telling us that at no time was the console taken into consideration during the development of the PC version?


During the development of the PC version, the job and goal of our design team was to create a fun product for the PC. After launch, it's been to support the game in the form of content updates, balancing, and bug fixes. That's their focus.

Beyond that, we actually have an independent team of designers, engineers, artists, and producers that are dedicated to adapting Diablo III to the PlayStation and creating an epic console experience. It's their job to take the PC game and translate it to the PS3, and in a way deal with all the considerations you're talking about. While our console team and PC team do collaborate (and have collaborated in the past), it's always to ensure that we’re staying true to D3 on the PlayStation platform.


Ok Lylirra, I'm fine with that explanation. But what about other very important and real issues?

1. The lack of char customization? And I don't mean here Skill points/levels and atributte
allocation. That ship has sailed a long time, development-wise, ago and I agree with the reasons stated. So the ball's in your guys side now? Do you guys have any intention to adress the lack of char "construction" lack that's presented to us? Meaningful, new systems, like skill trees and atribute alocation once were? Or in the view of the devs is this a meaningfull/important thing?

2. The severe lack of variety of affixes. Stat inflation between good/great and godly makes all but very few affixes desirable for end-game, no matter which class and most builds. Also one thing:
Currently there's very few legendary's that have meaningful impact in builds, like for instance, a Bramble or phoenix or Hoto or Nigma had in D2. You guys think that this kind of "crazy" overpowered items have any place in D3?

I'd understand if you can't answer my questions. But would be nice if all these crucial components that are not presented in the game right now be acknowledged by you...

Thanks in advance.
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02/25/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Sÿlak
Is that belief still held high in the development office?


We believe that many aspects of itemization in Diablo III work great, but that the system isn't perfect and can be improved. Overall, we feel like we've been making the item game better with each new patch, and definitely have plans to continue to that process. Some of the areas we'd like to focus on for the future include making Legendary items more "game changing" while still being powerful enough for players to want to equip them, introducing more meaningful gold sinks, and continuing to provide players with reliable ways to gear up outside of the Auction House.

02/25/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Fayld
I wish I could believe this wasn't just more spin...


I wish you could, too, but it's okay if you don't. :) The intent of my post wasn't to really to change anyone's minds, but just make sure that people have enough information to make informed decisions on their own.
02/25/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Lylirra
No, the PC version of Diablo III was not designed for console from the beginning. It was developed for the PC with one major goal in mind: provide players with an awesome hack-and-slash computer game that's both fun and engaging. Whether or not we achieved that goal is certainly up for debate within this community, but it doesn't make it any less real or valid. All the decisions we made when developing Diablo III -- including combat, skills, character controls, user interface, and itemization -- were ones we believed would deliver a great online experience, and the same can be said for the improvements we've made since launch. These decisions were not hindered (i.e. "dumbed down") by the development of a PlayStation version or altered to accommodate it.


No offense intended, but are/were you part of the design team? Did you have, or were you aware of any of the input provided for the basis of the structure of this game? Were you at any of the meetings regarding the design of this game, or are you simply taking others' words for it? No other incarnation of a Diablo game has restricted the group size to four (oddly extremely beneficial to the console player). No other incarnation of a Diablo game has had such a linear, unchanging and small gameplay experience - whether it be in mapping, character progress or just the storyline. There is no depth here at all. There is no immersion. It's like going to a fast food restaurant for weekend gamers...get in, get your fix, and get done in time for work on Monday.

Don't bother to tell me I haven't given the game a chance, either. I gave it several. The bottom line is that someone on the top of the chain of command (most likely someone who has never even played a Diablo game to any extent) wanted the fastest way to make a buck and move on to the next fast way to make a buck. He doesn't care about gamers. We are the dregs of society, living in our parents' basements and sucking up the oxygen that should go to the 'normal' people like him. Forget that some of us are the military people who make it possible for him to think about making a buck and nothing else. Forget that some of us are lawyers, scientists, doctors and police officers - we're gamers, and we're not worth his time after he makes a buck.
02/25/2013 05:06 PMPosted by Lylirra
So you're telling us that at no time was the console taken into consideration during the development of the PC version?


During the development of the PC version, the job and goal of our design team was to create a fun product for the PC. After launch, it's been to support the game in the form of content updates, balancing, and bug fixes. That's their focus.

Beyond that, we actually have an independent team of designers, engineers, artists, and producers that are dedicated to adapting Diablo III to the PlayStation and creating an epic console experience. It's their job to take the PC game and translate it to the PS3, and in a way deal with all the considerations you're talking about. While our console team and PC team do collaborate (and have collaborated in the past), it's always to ensure that we’re staying true to D3 on the PlayStation platform.


I would reverse the question.
If the answer to whoopadeedoo's qustion was "yes", would you tell us?
What is with Blizzard's obsession with the word 'epic'? There is nothing epic about D3. Such a disaster.

Many people theorized that the game was dumbed down for consoles before it even released for PC, guess they were right. Also, can the blues beat around the bush any more? I'd love it if one day they just came out with a straight answer


You are kidding right?

02/25/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Lylirra
No, the PC version of Diablo III was not designed for console from the beginning. It was developed for the PC with one major goal in mind: provide players with an awesome hack-and-slash computer game that's both fun and engaging.


How is that not straight forward. I mean, did you even bother reading or is that too much work?


You can spin that statement however you want. The follow up response is more of a give away.
If you look at the early Diablo 3 in development, it wasn't designed for a console, but that project was scrapped at some point and re-imagined for dual-platform possibilities. Diablo 3 turned out a very different game from the original one that was planned at Blizzard North.
All the theories people had about D3 being catered to the console crowd would be invalid if there was no console version of D3. I guess you showed them haters how wrong they were?

02/25/2013 05:06 PMPosted by Lylirra
Beyond that, we actually have an independent team of designers, engineers, artists, and producers that are dedicated to adapting Diablo III to the PlayStation and creating an epic console experience. It's their job to take the PC game and translate it to the PS3, and in a way deal with all the considerations you're talking about.


So what if you had no separate team for the playstation and instead allowed more resources for a much better PC game? I mean why not pay people to help make the game (that's been in development for longer than most games) so much better than sacrifice content, features, gameplay, etc... for a playstation version that might be better than the pc version.
I wouldn't ever want Lylirra's job. I doubt there is *anything* she could say that would satisfy the people on these forums. Things like logic and common sense seem to be in short supply here.

For example, players are freaking out because Diablo 3 doesn't live up to a predecessor that was made 12 years ago (back when both gamers and gaming were much different from how they are now) by a completely different design team. Yet they remain utterly convinced that what changed the game has nothing to do with the aforementioned issues and has everything to do with consoles.
02/25/2013 05:19 PMPosted by Nilrem
How is that not straight forward. I mean, did you even bother reading or is that too much work?


Someone please analyze what Lylirra says. So that you can understand clearly. Or, maybe you can just read it twice and think twice before you ask that?


You are kidding right?

How is that not straight forward. I mean, did you even bother reading or is that too much work?


You can spin that statement however you want. The follow up response is more of a give away.


lol.. man, some of you guys are cracking me up. This is getting close to the level of moon landing conspiracy. Do continue though, this is actually very entertaining.\

02/25/2013 05:38 PMPosted by MisterAjikko
How is that not straight forward. I mean, did you even bother reading or is that too much work?


Someone please analyze what Lylirra says. So that you can understand clearly. Or, maybe you can just read it twice and think twice before you ask that?


Yeah, that would be fine if one can do it without bias and/or pre-conceived views on the matter. One of which is very unlikely and would result in complete fail.
I think you are kinda just beating around the bush.
You still can't be 100% sure that some certain elements of the game are being designed (or redesigned during the game is being made) are taken into account because of a possibility of console port in the future.


Since I wasn't privy to every individual thought the developers were thinking as they implemented specific features for the PC game, it's possible that someone at some point thought about something related to console. (Though it may just have been whether or not they remembered to plug in their PS3 controller that morning.)

Even so, to counter a metaphor with a metaphor, I think a lot of players in this discussion can't see the forest for the trees. The point is that it wasn't on the PC design team to make considerations for console. Their focus has been and continues to be the PC game. It's the job of console team to make considerations for console as they adapt the existing game for the PlayStation.
Nice wall of blue text, but unfortunately I (along with many others) do not trust anything that damage limitation PR says anymore.
Some of the areas we'd like to focus on for the future include making Legendary items more "game changing" while still being powerful enough for players to want to equip them.


Oh thank god. The first change I suggest would be The Frostburn Gloves. If you really want to keep it so they can't roll 5 of the 6 stats people want on gloves (Main/Vit/CC/CD/AS) then the cold damage bonus and bonus to cold skills needs to big enough to offset the lack of required affixes.

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