Spiritual Attunement or Blood Ritual?

Witch Doctor
Which one is more effective for running out of mana less? I have both life steal and loh with EHP of 280k.
I haven't kept track of numbers for you, but I can say while doing mp7 key runs, I swapped blood ritual out for SA, and I was constantly out of mana.

I'm not a math guy, but let's say with Spiritual Attunement you have 1.1k mana and it adds an additional 11 mana per second regen (1%). If you are spamming zombie bears without Blood Ritual, it is 140 mana. Let's say 2x bears cast per second for arguments sake, that's 280 mana gone in a second. If you have Blood Ritual, minus 15% mana cost, you are spending 238 in that same second, for a difference of 42 mana, which is a lot more than the 11 extra mana you gain back.

This could definitely be fuzzy math but like I said, I've found my mana is constantly drained if I don't have Blood Ritual (on higher MPs when I'm not using Gruesome Feast). But then I use Bears primarily, if you are spamming a less mana intensive skill, or less spammy, etc, Ritual may lose some of it's benefit over SA.

I expect smarter people than me will eventually respond.
Try them both out and see which you like best.

Unless you have more than 7 ft of pickup radius, I would drop GI, and run BR + SA, or VQ +SA.

You could also use active skills to make mana e.g. widowmaker spiders, or Locust Swarm/Devouring Swarm.
Do you ever have any issues with it draining life? I assume its such a small number of hp being used to matter but just curious.

I love GI for the cool down. I only have an extra 7 yards but still find it effective enough to stay in spirit walk pretty consistently. It's for speed.

I just wasn't sure which one was more beneficial as hadnt done the math.

Thanks for the responses.
02/25/2013 06:54 AMPosted by zelness
Do you ever have any issues with it draining life? I assume its such a small number of hp being used to matter but just curious


BR doesn't drain life... EVER. It doesn't take much math to show you that if you are basically running anything more than 1k life... you will not ever be loosing life while using BR. The tooltip makes you think that life is being drained away, when you have to realize mana and life are 1-2 orders of magnitude different in values... so the 15% mana being paid as life (if you have 1k mana this would mean that if you drain your entire mana pool, it will only cost 150 life) So you lose 150 life for draining all your mana which will take a few seconds... and in that time you are regenerating 1% your max life / sec.

Just think about it. If it helps... just consider Blood Ritual as being a -15% cost for all your skills and 1% life regen. Don't even think about the rest of the tooltip cause it really is so small it is not even worth mentioning.
Do you ever have any issues with it draining life? I assume its such a small number of hp being used to matter but just curious.

I love GI for the cool down. I only have an extra 7 yards but still find it effective enough to stay in spirit walk pretty consistently. It's for speed.

I just wasn't sure which one was more beneficial as hadnt done the math.

Thanks for the responses.


Above poster mentioned it, but the 15% cost in life is negated by the 1% life regen generated from within the passive. 15% of zombie bears mana cost is only 21. Even if it didn't have that 1% life regen, you would still not notice the "cost in life", assuming you had any other source of life regen. Even if you ZERO life regen, it would be hard to notice, but I think I've belabored the point now.
I normally use both for farming runs...but just blood ritual in PvP
i think SA would be better for low MP as you will have a larger mana pool to work with, but once you are facing packs that take longer than 20-30 seconds to kill BR becomes more effective

or maybe that's SA vs VQ... who knows.. why can't we just have some mana on crit... :)
02/25/2013 02:04 PMPosted by fabbyhunter
I normally use both for farming runs...but just blood ritual in PvP


me too. and mana regen on weapon, off hand and helm. spamming bears on mp5 with no problem :)
If you have to choose, as a general rule of thumb, if max mana is below a thousand, then Blood Ritual is the go-to passive. There are exceptions to the rule, but it's a pretty safe bet.
Fierce Loyalty
I like BR over SA, cause the added life regen gives added protection.
02/25/2013 05:49 AMPosted by zelness
Which one is more effective for running out of mana less? I have both life steal and loh with EHP of 280k.


Both are equally effective. They work differently, and therefore neither is "better" than the other. If you are casting lots of high mana cost spells, like Zombie Charger or Acid Rain, then Blood Ritual is going to take some of sting out of that cost, and therefore allow you to cast more over a longer period of time. At the same time, Spiritual Attunement is going to increase your overall Mana Pool, which will give you more casts as well, in addition to bumping up your regen rate a bit.

SA tends to play more nicely with Mana stats on gear, as the more you increase your Max Mana and/or Regen, the more benefit you will get from SA. Likewise, the more Mana Regen you have, the more benefit you will get from SA. A larger Mana pool obviously gives you more casts, but you would have to test how many casts you get from X skill versus Blood Ritual to know for sure.

In short, if you have no Mana stats on your gear, then Blood Ritual is probably the choice you want to make, as the others aren't going to help you as much. My advice to is to get at least 2 Mana stats (they can be found on Knives, Masks, and Mojos), and then decide how many Mana stats you need to kill X monster on Y MP. The higher the MP, the longer you are going to need to sustain, and will probably find yourself with 2 or more Mana Regen passives to compensate. The lower the MP, the less you need to sustain, and can get away with 1 or no Mana Regen passives, depending, of course, on your DPS.
Can Zunimassa's Vision roll Mana Regen? Because I don't think he is going to pick up a Mojo to replace his Uhkapian. If he picked up a high Thing of the deep and a new MCK both with mana regen I bet that would offset a ton of his mana problems. I guess it is up to him if he wants to stay at his current DPS level, but as far as I can see from how he has things set up, mana will always be an issue because he hardly has anything to keep it filling up.
I mean, that's just my $.02 because I got a really horrible MCK but I got it with Mana Regen so I could sustain my bears. I pretty much never OOM with Widowmakers thrown in occasionally for the REALLY extended castings of bears.
It definitely depends on your gear and build. For my specific situation, when I use GI and GF passives, SA is superior. This is because both of those passives provide benefits based on "Max Mana", which is obviously significantly higher with SA.

My typical farming builds include GI, GF, and SA.

When I fight ubers, I don't use either GI or GF, and BR is better (I also take VQ against ubers).

As someone else suggested, try a few identical runs both ways.
02/26/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Unzero
Can Zunimassa's Vision roll Mana Regen?


Yes. Look at my zuni vision if you'd like.
Holy mother. That's a nice helmet. I would lose the resists on mine if I could find one like yours!

How much did that set you back?
02/26/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ofgortens
Can Zunimassa's Vision roll Mana Regen?


Yes. Look at my zuni vision if you'd like.


Indeed they can, but unfortunately the helm can only roll one random property. People go with either mana regen or crit. I personally went the Crit route - but many can argue, "Mana regen is a hidden dps stat."

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