AH Bidding Problem

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02/28/2013 05:03 AMPosted by charliedog
Blizzard is making this game into a "wall street" game where people make money buying low and inflating price to sell high. Being the average player can not get a good drop their character can actually use you are then forced to pay for what you need. Isn't this game supposed to be about roll playing or is that just a ruse and an excuse to cover up that you actually have to buy everything your character needs so you can show off to your friends what you have purchased and how strong your character now is. Yep I thought this game was supposed to be about fighting and getting drops that every once in awhile you could actually use. You know a Diablo game for Diablo fans. Hay are we all having fun yet?


You have never played any other game with an AH feature I see... like any of the hundreds of MMOs... The guys that can play the AH (or just like spending a lot of time on it) will make a lot of gold.

So if making a lot of gold is more important then having fun in the game, learn to play the AH game.

This is FAR from a new thing... been around for about 6000-7000 years or so, when we invented this thing called civilization ^^
Mark, thanks for the explanation. :) I guessed so, too.

However, I find it confusing that it says for instance:
your bid: 2345 gold
current bid: 2345 gold

For my understanding, since current bid and my bid are the same, it should be me who has the current max bid, and it should be me who is currently winning. If that isn't the case (and obviously it isn't) then the current bid has to be higher than my bid, and if it is only by 1 gold. Just for the logic and understanding. But maybe I just think too complicated. xD


The intent is to hide someone's true max bid.
There was a flaw in the past that by slowly bumping up the bids, you will always find out a spot where the bid grows less than 5%, which would reveal the max bid of the buyer. A seller can do this through a friend's account, and force max bid on the buyer even if there is no one else bidding for the item.
They fixed this by instead of increasing winner's bid by 5% of your max bid, it only increases winner's bid to your max bid and refund your gold. The system would take account everyone's max bid and determine the winner based on the highest hidden max bid of all buyers, on a first come first served basis (i.e. two people entered 75k as max bid, the first guy to enter it wins).
Am I the only one who waits for a few minutes left on the item and just completely over bids? IE 10 mil on a 500k item. This way, I know no one will out bid and I am returned the 9.5 mil refund (or close to that obviously). My last big one was I sniped a Lacuni's at 500k, and resold it at 8mil. Works like a charm. I thought it was bugged, good to know I can continue to do this without issue.
The only real downside of this system is that if you do use it as intended it ties up a good amount of your money. If I am looking for 2 new weapons for my WW Barb and I can only afford to get 1 right now I will be combing through my options... but if I can only afford to buy one... if I am using truthful bidding... I can also only afford to place one bid. This severly limits my options.

Some one else already pointed out the basic tactic of: make a minimum bid > immediately get outbid > get refund > watch item > if necessary, make truthful bid when auction is nearly complete

This is, unfortunately, the more efficient way to handle this, especially when your shopping list is on the large side (playing multiple characters). However, this could easily be fixed with a few simple updates to the AH as follows:

Add a WATCH button. Simple as that. No bid required. Let me add/remove items from a watch list with a maximum of 10 items (to mitigate server inquiries). This lets me keep an eye on multiple items and prioritize my money accordingly.

Allow users optional Auction TIMES. The default auction time is 36 hours. A vast majority of bidding activity takes place only in the last 60 minutes. That's a big waste of 35 hours. If players were allowed to select 24, 12... or heck... even a special 6 hour sale... that would be interesting.

Yes, this would increase traffic (but players are still limited to 10 auctions), but by drumming up traffic it would also help normalize many of the prices on the AH currently. As many players can attest, upgrade pricing can dramatically spike from 1-2 million to 100+ million.
So basically the exact same as ebay, which more people use and understand every day than the entire population of D3 apparently.

It's amusing :P

But a refresh button is needed, I get tired of swapping windows in order to force the refresh.
What about trolling the AH?

Say an item is worth 2bil

Some troll bids 100bil on it

Rational folk overbid to at least to 2,5bil and stop knowing it's not worth it anymore

Auction ends, troll gets 97,5bil gold refund and "a little" overpaid item

And you are telling me this is fine? The current system doesn't work the way "pay the most you will" i simply caters to idiots willing to throw all their money on one item and get away with it. Or if by "pay the most you will" you have the above in mind, then wow....
02/27/2013 09:15 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
For the academically interested, you can read more about this auction approach on wikipedia, it's called a Vickrey auction or "Second Price Auction".


If you check it out yourself, you would find that it says:
where a participant who has bid more than any other bidder pays the current highest bid plus the current bidding increment

Please make this additional adjustment otherwise it is like a bid stealing.
To Take your example, original bidder's max bid of 75000 getting outbid by new bidder's max bid of 150000 should result in new bidder winning the auction with a current winning bid of 78750 (5% increment over 75000)
02/27/2013 07:49 PMPosted by Bloodyzbub
My method is to wait until 15secs is left on the auction, bid the absolute highest amount I'm willing to pay and one of 2 things will happen....1- my bid was insufficient OR 2- You Won!


Pretty much this. Also. lets say you had a 20mil gold bid in. You got out bid. there is under 1min left. This is where you have to say to yourself ill pay 80mil for it. Then put that bid in. You cant just try and go up with lil bids play to win. A lot of times you will get the winning bid and the other player will be trying to outbid you if he doesn't know how to bid. Like you been doing. If you buy iti finally for 50mil. Then the item and 30mil are sitting in stash. YOU WON!
Please make this additional adjustment otherwise it is like a bid stealing.
To Take your example, original bidder's max bid of 75000 getting outbid by new bidder's max bid of 150000 should result in new bidder winning the auction with a current winning bid of 78750 (5% increment over 75000)


That's how it used to work, but it made shill bidding (the practice of having friends bid your item up higher and higher to search for the bidder's max bid, then stop when it is found without ever taking a risk of exceeding it) an issue. Your bid was not truly hidden when the auctions worked that way. If 1 gold over is all that is needed to win, then your bid can't be identified by fishing with false bids.
If you know the top bid, ppl will add 1 g to the bid 10 sec before the end, so keep it that way.

The problem is that if ppl have 2 accounts, you put a item at low prise and ppl will put a hight bid and because it is my account, i could see the hight bid. With my second account, i will bid 1g lower then his hight bid to earn the max gold for my item.
I know greed has been around for endless centuries. And I have played many online games. But the difference is that the other games didn't actually force you to use an auctions house because the game just will not give you what you need to survive or need. Other games had a good story line and kept you interested that way. This game is a constant same area looking for good drops game that pretty much never happens. Why is it so hard for some people to figure that out or do you just figure that the game is good enough even though it is not even in the same ball park as D! or D2?
What about trolling the AH?

Say an item is worth 2bil

Some troll bids 100bil on it

Rational folk overbid to at least to 2,5bil and stop knowing it's not worth it anymore

Auction ends, troll gets 97,5bil gold refund and "a little" overpaid item

And you are telling me this is fine? The current system doesn't work the way "pay the most you will" i simply caters to idiots willing to throw all their money on one item and get away with it. Or if by "pay the most you will" you have the above in mind, then wow....


/Faceplam...

Yeah, you just keep trolling, and bidding 50 times the amount an item is worth. The day 2 trolls decide to troll bid on the same item, the seller of that item will be very happy ^^

And people that "fail" to reach the troll bid will just get their gold back the second they bid... as they didn't outbid the current bidder... and you don't know what his bid is, so adding even 1 more gold could make you the winner...

Let me making easier on you, bid what you think an item is worth, when you have the gold for it.

If you are trying to decide between 2 items and only have enough gold for 1... well bid on the one ending first, if you win great, if not, use your gold and bid on the second.

If you know the top bid, ppl will add 1 g to the bid 10 sec before the end, so keep it that way.

The problem is that if ppl have 2 accounts, you put a item at low prise and ppl will put a hight bid and because it is my account, i could see the hight bid. With my second account, i will bid 1g lower then his hight bid to earn the max gold for my item.


No you can't, you can only see the CURRENT bid (what is required for him to be the winner atm), not that player's ACTUAL bid (which could be the current bid or 60m more, you don't know).
INFO like this should be in the game guide!


Good suggestion, I'll pass this along to the Game Guide gurus to have it added.
That's how it used to work, but it made shill bidding (the practice of having friends bid your item up higher and higher to search for the bidder's max bid, then stop when it is found without ever taking a risk of exceeding it) an issue. Your bid was not truly hidden when the auctions worked that way.


This is correct.
The more you know... thanks for the clarification!

Seems the best practice is just to bid what the item is worth to you, then walk away. Or only buy items that have a buyout price listed :)
Glad this change went into affect, so much more fair for bidders. I hated having to snipe items just so people wouldn't try to bid you up.
Let's say i have 300million gold, I put a bid of 150million on an item, someone else bids 200million, I still have 150million to bid, why can't I bummp my bid up to 300million? currently I can't, it says not enough funds.
02/28/2013 01:03 AMPosted by chrisloup
that's because you are trying to lowball. instead of making your best offer.


Lowball? Sellers should not list an item for less than what they are willing to take.

See also: "I forgot to add another zero to the price."

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