The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

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Compelling yes, in the literal sense of the word. Having bad choices literally compels you to choose others. How is that good in any way, for any game, ever? Are you serious?

If all the choices are good, then you might as well pick at random, since they are all good. There just have to be some wrong choices.

There is a very definite line between skills that are good for anything, and skills that are good for something. Gosu's point is that every Skill and every rune should be good for SOMETHING.

My Wizard runs Archon build for farming on low MP levels, but I use CM build for higher MP's for Ubers and Key farming. That's an example of two builds that are not good for "anything", but are great at something.

Currently, there are MANY skills and runes that ARE NOT good at ANYTHING. That is Gosu's point, and I 100% agree with him.

True, yet he branded two skills, that are good for something useless. He basically said that the Cinder Arrow and the Pile On skill runes are useless. I disagreed and I explained as to why they are not.
The cinder Arrow is for the LoH users, Pile On perfectly serves both purposes -- the wrong choice for PvE and the Execute skill for PvP.
While Gosu's intentions are noble and he means well, he is simply too quick to judge. That is not a good quality for neither a gamer, nor a developer.
Wonderful work...

Bump, but also the perfect guideline for the top-down reconstruction of the game that needs to happen.

A few points I feel should be added;

1) Monk Exploding Fist skill,
The skill does X amount of damage over 9 seconds (from memory)
There is a rune and its effects are the SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE just over 12 seconds instead of 9. (Can edit later for exact specs/rune name or just look it up if you need to)
If this isn't the most blindingly obvious USELESS RUNE ever, I don't know what is. The fact that this even made it into the game astounds me. There is no logical reason to pick this rune unless you enjoy doing less DPS with this skill. The oversight that the development team had in letting this get through to the final product speaks volumes.

2) The game needs THINGS TO DO outside of farming. Quests, bosses, easter eggs, things to farm other than gear, events etc. This has been touched on in the essay, which goes into perfect detail on how to fix the mechanics of the game, but doesn't go into this into the detail I believe it should.

Lets hope the sacking of Jay Wilson will bring us good things, if not, rest in peace Blizzard and the Diablo series, you really douched it up this time....
Everyone saying this is a discussion, they are wrong. Developers never discuss anything with the players. Travis posted a response, but will not be back to address any other followups.

His "blog" next week will be useless, the Itemization ATDs will be useless, and nothing will change for the better.

The core game is broken, the developers never actually try anything out, instead they follow their grand plan which has failed so far.

The PTR may as well not exist due to how poor the communication is.


In all likelyhood you are correct, sir. I certainly have no delusions that whatever kind of brilliant input I or any of the rest of us come up with here will get serious consideration from Travis, should he ever bother to take another look here, or from any one else who truly matters. But, we are at least conversing with one another, so I would say that we do indeed have a conversation taking place here. It may well be an ultimately fruitless conversation, but I for one am happy to see that players like Gosu are putting some effort into trying to improve the game they love. And, at least Gosu got a response from the DEVs. He put out there what he had come up with, many people added to the "conversation", and Travis responded. I'm glad, particularly for Gosu's sake, that he/we got that response, even if it didn't amount to much more than a glorified pat on the head.

Thank you again, Gosu, for getting this thread started with your awesome post, and thank you, Travis, for at least throwing him that bone. It's more than he expected I am sure. I bet you made his day, and I would say he earned it.
03/01/2013 12:46 AMPosted by Noxifer
Compelling yes, in the literal sense of the word. Having bad choices literally compels you to choose others. How is that good in any way, for any game, ever? Are you serious?

If all the choices are good, then you might as well pick at random, since they are all good. There just have to be some wrong choices.


What? No. That's like saying a restaurant chef intentionally makes horrible dishes to make sure you pick the good ones. Your line of logic escapes me...


True, yet he branded two skills, that are good for something useless. He basically said that the Cinder Arrow and the Pile On skill runes are useless. I disagreed and I explained as to why they are not.
The cinder Arrow is for the LoH users, Pile On perfectly serves both purposes -- the wrong choice for PvE and the Execute skill for PvP.
While Gosu's intentions are noble and he means well, he is simply too quick to judge. That is not a good quality for neither a gamer, no a developer.


What is Pile On? What is Execute? I have never heard of such skills...

And what do you mean by "too quick to judge"? The game has been out for what, 9 months? I think its been long enough to realize that some skills/runes downright suck and need serious improvement or a total overhaul.
The words is too much,but it's really 'Lee Chrysanthemum Blessing'!
Fantastic blue post with substance, for once. +1, I'm excited for what is to come.

We want it to be easier for players to find other like-minded people to play with and this is a topic we are actively trying to improve in the near future.


I can only hope this is done through a system that works. For example, if i've got 3 very high dps people and we just need a 200k+ cyclone/overawe monk to finish off the team... As it is, you have to start days(if not weeks) ahead and add tons of possible players to your friends list in order to have a hope of building a good team. Even then, you quickly max out your list and are stuck deleting people who are friends... but that you don't want to farm with.
What? No. That's like saying a restaurant chef intentionally makes horrible dishes to make sure you pick the good ones. Your line of logic escapes me...

Compering making choices of active and passive skills in a video game to picking a meal in a restaurant is not very logical to say the least.
In a game there has to be some wrong choices, there must be a way for you to lose.

What is Pile On? What is Execute? I have never heard of such skills...

Pile On is one of the skill runes for Wall of Zombies. I used the term "the execute" in attempt to describe the qualities of the Pile On skill rune and try to prove, that the skill rune is not universally useless. I believe it is the best executing skill of the Witch Doctor, meaning It can produce the most single target burst of damage in a single shot, especially if the target is under the effect of Hex: Jynx. That's what I meant by using the term "The Execute".

And before someone begins an argument about PvP, I am gonna quote myself and share my views on the matter.
And again, the skill is not even universally bad, it has it's incredible use in PvP. I see no problem for some of the bad skills in PvE to be good for PvP.
You don't like PvP? The problem is entirely yours.
You don't wanna believe that particular skill was designed with PvP in mind? I believe otherwise, due to certain changes to skills i noticed in the period between September 2011 and December 2011. Blizzard said multiple times they had a PvP Strike Team.
You want all skill runes to be viable in PvE? I don't want that. I think there should be some wrong choices so that making a build is actually compelling.

And what do you mean by "too quick to judge"? The game has been out for what, 9 months? I think its been long enough to realize that some skills/runes downright suck and need serious improvement or a total overhaul.

I mean that he is too quick to brand skills useless, even ones which have great use for those, who know how to utilize them. Just because something is useless for him doesn't mean it's universally useless. It really isn't so hard to understand.

Also very interesting find about Pile On. Pile On builds in PvE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BDiXWZ7hQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXTzh8GHln8
Apparently the skill used to be very good for PvE as well, but it got nerfed (or at least that's what I understood based on the comments).
02/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Travis Day
. Stay a while and listen.


I would but some genius killed him off... OR DID THEY ?????!!!????

Travis, I read your post.. I was a bit stunned... IN TOTAL 100% HONESTY I finished reading it and said out loud to myself .. " What the hell just happened" ?

I have become a cynic regarding D3 lately and I never expected to see a post with so much insight into what you guys are still tackling... I just assumed you were mostly done.

I know you said you will try to avoid long posts like the one you just wrote in future, but it's these kind of posts, where you guys actually match the length and detail of some of the posts the community throws at you that spread like wildfire and get people back to the game.. and then things start to happen for the positive.... I.e the opposite to when people leave the game.

Thanks mate !.
Fantastic blue post with substance, for once. +1, I'm excited for what is to come.

We want it to be easier for players to find other like-minded people to play with and this is a topic we are actively trying to improve in the near future.

I can only hope this is done through a system that works. For example, if i've got 3 very high dps people and we just need a 200k+ cyclone/overawe monk to finish off the team,,, As it is, you have to start days(if not weeks) ahead and add tons of possible players to your friends list in order to have a hope of building a good team. Even then, you quickly max out your list and are stuck deleting people who are friends... but that you don't want to farm with.


Indeed, a party building system that works is something this game desperately needs. As far as finding the exact type of characters you need for your party, I'm not sure how they could do that beyond having some kind of queing system that checks players dps/armor/all resist and groups them accordingly. I suppose that should not be impossible, but I would be content with being able to somehow group with players that want to do what I want to do, whatever their stats are. As it is now if you want to brawl its not going to happen unless someone on your friend's list wants to, and its the same story for ubers, key runs, you name it. I don't know about the rest of you but every RL friend I have that used to play this game has quit, and while its not that hard to add people to your friend's list, most of the time those people are probably not going to want to do uber runs at the exact same time you do.

Right now our options for getting parties together in this game are to hit up the people on your friends list, shout out to people on the chat channels and inevitably get no response, or to hop into open games and try to recruit random people. This is horribly inadequate. At least Travis said they are looking to improve upon this, let's pray such improvements arrive swiftly.
Wow, I agree almost to 100% with Gosu. Awesome work!

Compering making choices of active and passive skills in a video game to picking a meal in a restaurant is not very logical to say the least.
In a game there has to be some wrong choices, there must be a way for you to lose.


You can't see past the stupid dichotomy you invented.

If an affix isn't useless that doesn't mean it's necessarily good for everything. Affixes can be good for SOMETHING, in which case it's up to the player to use them for SOMETHING instead of just having them. An affix that's good for something doesn't do anything unless the player is using it for that something. Affixes that are good for anything specifically mean it doesn't matter how you use them.

You are very wrong and should really just walk away.


In short, scrap D3. Start over. Because there is no "fix" that can be done to make the game better.


The Expo is actually that.

They have a chance to make the Expansion a total reboot / reset.

The biggest road block facing this game is people spending real money on the RMAH and because of that , hands are tied.. HOWEVER... Higher Level cap means level 63 items lose their value... higher level items are available, people don't feel like they just lost money on a change that was not expected. An expo was ALWAYS expected.. and a higher character level along with higher level gear IS expected as well. Anyone who spent even 1c on this game knew (or should have known) that along with the expo in the future, their level 63 gear would be superseded.

I look forward to seeing how any post along the lines of : "WHAT BLIZZ.. your expansion will make the level cap 100 and my gear is now worthless" will be taken seriously by any gamer in the community.

If they get it right now.. the expo is that "fix" you say can't be achieved.
Great thx to OP GOSU

there are things i agree and there are things i do not, however the effort and dedication you put in writting this post is wonderful, make an lazy !@# guy like me to log in and write this comment, Blizz should hire this guy part time to fill out the creativity department......haiz....I used to dream before release that D3 could be fun like WOW in another way.

Compering making choices of active and passive skills in a video game to picking a meal in a restaurant is not very logical to say the least.
In a game there has to be some wrong choices, there must be a way for you to lose.


You can't see past the stupid dichotomy you invented.

If an affix isn't useless that doesn't mean it's necessarily good for everything. Affixes can be good for SOMETHING, in which case it's up to the player to use them for SOMETHING instead of just having them. An affix that's good for something doesn't do anything unless the player is using it for that something. Affixes that are good for anything specifically mean it doesn't matter how you use them.

You are very wrong and should really just walk away.

I personally never rushed to say, that certain things are useless or that they have to be good for everything.
I also never said that if something isn't good for everything it's useless.
I don't know where you picked that. Would you care to provide exact quote?
03/01/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Zen
You are very wrong and should really just walk away.

Sure, cause you commented on things I never said, right?
This Travis guy is awesome. He represents Blizzard very well. This sort of uncompromising communication is so impressive to witness.
holy wall of text batman!

Great post, the best I have read on these forums, many great ideas Gosu, well planned and spoken, and a good reply from Travis, with some things people want that they are looking at.

But I will say, will it be to late by the time these changes come in? I try and play a few nights a week, but am finding I am losing interest, especially when I find a legendary, and then ID it, and its just absolute rubbish, like an ilvl 63 weapon rolling dps values of like 700, for a legendary.... But slain monsters rest in peace...... Ya ok.

Thanks for sharing :)
Thread didn't get locked! Yesss! I found Travis' post very unhelpful to be honest. I'm not sure why everyone is swooning over what he said. He really didn't add anything and just made it sound like:

"Yeah, nice ideas, but I'm not really going to directly refer to any of them or state that we'd consider putting something like that into the game. Thanks for the effort, bro, but this is our game and we're going to keep messing it up!"
03/01/2013 01:39 AMPosted by Lolcohol
Thread didn't get locked! Yesss! I found Travis' post very unhelpful to be honest. I'm not sure why everyone is swooning over what he said.

I can't understand it either. I guess people read not what he wrote, but what they wanted to read.
For me the whole thing went like this:
Gosu: "Things are bad!"
Travis: "Indeed they are"
Gosu: "Something must be done!"
Travis: "I can't agree more"
Gosu: "So, are you going to do something based on my suggestions?"
Travis: "You kidding? Of course not! Hahahahhahaa :D:D:D"

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