How to Improve the Quality of Loot Without Quantity!

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Huh? I'm a bit confused by this.

MF is a measure of quality. I'ts always been a measure of quality.

It's not the only measure of quality. Item level also is but, An I lvl 63 white item is still "crap" without the MF turning it into a Rare or Set or Leg.

So MF is the most important measure of quality when finding drops.


MF is NOT a measure of QUALITY with respect to legendary items. They have a fixed number of affixes, with the rolls being completely independent from magic find - they are entirely random.

MF IS a measure of quality with respect to rare items only. It increases the probability that you will roll a higher # of affixes (up to 6).

MF in it's current state, and the state of items, is primarily a focus of frequency. You will see more legendary items with a higher MF (insert tinfoil hat conspiracy theories disputing this), in my experience it's true. IF items began to drop less frequently, but had higher quality, the more MF you had to increase said frequency would become even more important, boxing out lower Plevel players. -that is my main point.

In response to droth, yes I would be satisfied with a quality drop over a lengthier period of time, but I doubt that would satisfy the large casual player base.

btw, you only get 1 leg every 6 hours!? add me and come tag along on a run sometime, we'll get em droppin for you....6 hours....christ I don't think I could take that (given the quality of current items).
btw, you only get 1 leg every 6 hours!? add me and come tag along on a run sometime, we'll get em droppin for you....6 hours....christ I don't think I could take that.

Dunno, I got upgrades less often in WoW and was still satisfied. 1 upgrade every other week.

I'll get there eventually, I just don't want to use the AH at all. >.< As a result it's going really slowly.

I basically use the AH as a means of getting my character geared enough to clear MP 1 Inferno, then do the rest myself.

Oh, BTW MF increases the chance to find a legendary. The system rolls from top down like this. If it "misses" a roll it rolls on the next tier.

Legendary > 6 Affix Rare > 5 Affix Rare > 4 Affix Rare > 3 Affix Rare > 2 Affix Rare > 1 Affix Rare > Magic Item > White item (Default if EVERYTHING fails)

Magic find is just a modifier that increases the chance to "win" at each tier.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
03/03/2013 12:08 AMPosted by Drothvader
btw, you only get 1 leg every 6 hours!? add me and come tag along on a run sometime, we'll get em droppin for you....6 hours....christ I don't think I could take that.


I'll get there eventually, I just don't want to use the AH at all. >.< As a result it's going really slowly.


Ah, I see. Well get to craftin some BOA gear, you'll be pleasantly surprised after 100 or so rolls in each slot.
Oh, BTW MF increases the chance to find a legendary. The system rolls from top down like this. If it "misses" a roll it rolls on the next tier.Legendary > 6 Affix Rare > 5 Affix Rare > 4 Affix Rare > 3 Affix Rare > 2 Affix Rare > 1 Affix Rare > Magic Item > White item (Default if EVERYTHING fails)


Yep and THAT is exactly what makes MF a measure of quality. or an ENHANCER of quality if you want to say it that way.

And it is a FACT stated by blizzard. No AFDB's required.
That's actually a more fitting analogy actually.However, that's the problem. What if there were not hundreds, but THOUSANDS of pairs of socks. If you didn't think you were going to find that Playstation there, wouldn't you give up on wading through the neverending pile of socks after a while?Right now the thought process is that you only care about the Legendaries (The Playstation) right?So hiding the rares still doesn't help with the fact that they're not rare, and they're not desirable. Just like those socks under the tree.


ABSOLUTELY!

But if those socks and the boxes they are in are transparent, or if i had x-ray vision I might be able to find that playstation box even if my parents were hiding it.

Also though if I had the choice of the playstation or an xbox, instead of playstation or socks, I would still be happy. Meaning: Grinding to find legendaries should not be the only way to aquire good gear.

The new crafted items were a good alternate way to gear.
Cool post OP.
I think the whole "MF-increasing-the-quality-rather-than-quantity" idea has been proposed before, but not written out as well.

This change of Magic Find will also rid of people demanding "Identify All" feature, since the number of yellow items they find will drop significantly.

Also, I'm seeing some posts with desire to change Legendary item drop rate to be more "consistent". (a certain amount of Legendary drops guaranteed per certain amount of kills/hours played)

In my personal opinion, I think the Legendary item drop rates and their stat rolls are fine as is.
Not only will this unpredictable Legendary drop seem that much more exciting, but seeing a good roll on that Legendary item will be that much more sweeter.

Bottomline:
Nice idea OP, hopefully they change the way rare items are dropped and rolled.
03/03/2013 12:55 AMPosted by Oxygenetic
This change of Magic Find will also rid of people demanding "Identify All" feature, since the number of yellow items they find will drop significantly.

I didn't think of it like that, but you do have a point.

It will drastically reduce the desire to want / need an identify all button.

Also, I'm seeing some posts with desire to change Legendary item drop rate to be more "consistent". (a certain amount of Legendary drops guaranteed per certain amount of kills/hours played)

I don't want a system where something is guaranteed after x kills. That takes all the fun out of getting something you didn't expect to find.

It's much more exciting that way.

The way Legendaries drop is fine as is, though with the proposed change I would probably tweak the Legendary drop rate a little. This will in effect give you the droprate of playing MP0 at paragon level 1.

That's certainly not something exciting to look forward to.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
03/02/2013 10:00 PMPosted by Drothvader
Rare items will become rare again


Ya' know that actually makes a lot of sense. Rares are so darn common I honestly don't even flinch when I see them, instead I often cringe and think to myself meh. And what in the world is a legendary item but a true rare item?

What makes a legendary drop so awesome? I honestly don't think most legendary's are exciting even after the changes. Most seem like fluff rares with nice stats.

We came out early on and told the Dev's that there isn't enough motivation to keep chasing the carrot. In fact, one might start to think that there is no carrot and that it is merely a lie! Or that the carrot fairies don't like them cause everyone else has found at least one carrot except them after days of played time.
what if double the quality chance and cut by half the quantity?

seems like easy solution
what if double the quality chance and cut by half the quantity?

seems like easy solution

That's basically what I'm advocating for.

If I raise the threshold to double what it used to be, I have pretty much doubled my chance for the roll to be high.

Basically instead of having a 1/190 chance I now have a 1/95 chance.

Henceforth Magic Find will actually affect the quality of items instead of the "quality" (Meaning number of affixes)
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
03/03/2013 01:04 AMPosted by Tgod
what if double the quality chance and cut by half the quantity?

Haha! Straight-forward! I like that.

Yeah, I don't really care what method Blizzard uses to fix this Rare Item problem.

All I want is to feel the rush of excitement and joy of finding awesome items once again.
So what if Magic Find increased the roll threshold instead?

For example. Let's say currently you can roll anywhere between 15-200 for a given primary stat. Well, let's instead make Magic Find increase the lower end of the threshold for loot rolls.

If I have 625% magic find as I get from Full NV stacks at Paragon Level 100 on MP10, I will now increase that base threshold number by 625%!

15 x (1 + 6.25) = 108.75 (or 109 When rounded up)

So now, at max magic find, I am guaranteed to find stats above 109.

I have effectively raised the threshold on finding high level stats.

If we reflect this back towards the first analogy, this means I have now increased my chance to find a max level roll.


This would effectively turn mp10 games mandatory. As you stated, its already hard to find desirable stat combos, let alone good rolls. So all players would feel forced to play in a dificulty they probably are not ready for, thus breeding (even more) leechers in pubs, and ppl rage quiting all over because the game suddenly got too dificult.

You could say that nobody would force themselves to play at mp10 because the affixes are still random, but even so i would feel cheated if because of playing in mp0, a well affixed gloves (cc,cd,ias,main stat,vit,all res) rolled anything lower than 109 main stat...

Thats the wrong way to go i think.

What i would do instead is a chaining system to the rolling of affixes in items, where the first roll would influenciate the second roll and so on (do not guarantee the next roll, but increase its odds of ocurring):

In this system, the affixes would be spread in groups, like so:

1st group: Str, Str+Vit, Vit, Critical Damage, Armor, Barb Specific

2nd group: Int, Int+Vit, Vit, Critical Chance, All Resist, Wiz/Wd Specific

3rd group: Dex, Dex+Vit, Vit, Atack Speed, Movement Speed, Monk/DH Specific

4th group: Magic Find, Gold Find, Pickup Radius, Health from globes, Life %, Life regen, Thorns

The first roll is chosen at random. Then the next ones are given a higher chance to roll afixes within its group: Starting at 50% and lowering as more affixes are rolled:

I will use 6 prop gloves as example:

gloves a)
1st roll: Dex+Vit - 50% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
2nd roll: Atack speed - 25% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
3rd roll: Dex - 12.5% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
4th roll: CC - Broke the chain. New chain starts: 50% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
5th roll: Vit - 25% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
6th roll: Life regen - Broke the chain

gloves b)
1st roll: Str - 50% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
2nd roll: CC - 25% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
3rd roll: Armor - 12.5% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
4th roll: Vit - 7.25% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
5th roll: Str+Vit - 3.125% extra chance to roll next affix within its group
6th roll: Thorns - Broke the chain

The extra % can be tweaked to make certain combinations more common, and the grouping ive done is just to ilustrate how a chained roll would happen. I believe this would make items that "makes sense" much more common.

Also for each group, there would be a 1-100 roll that decides their quality, meaning if it rolls 1 any affix from said group will roll its lowest values in the item, and 100 will roll perfectly ( for shared stats like vit in my example the highest roll prevail).

Couple it with a major decrease of rares drops in game (for like 20 rares per legendary found) and you will be seeing ppl hoarding every rare item they find. =p
Nothing will do much about items until the rng isn't quite so r, if you catch my drift.

Remove min/max damage affix and bake that dps into the base dps on the weapon.

No damage affix, junk

No socket, junk

No high main stat or other affix to use as offhand stat stick, junk

Yes there are exceptions, but not enough.

I don't want to use the ah, but if I want to upgrade I have to. And that's that. The only good gear I have found are a few rings, some gloves, and the ammy I have on my wizzy and barb.

Wizzy ammy is for sale btw. Make an offer.
and how do you intend to make magic fiind give you x% chances of rolling crit chances instead of any other stat in a rng based system...you add another rng to rng ?...The only solution I see that could make your ideea posible is by getting rid of the worthless stats...then maybe it will help...Dunno how you can make Mf add a chance for you to roll good stats.

Except adding a chance to mf to make items spam IAS/Crit/Crit chances/Vitality/Other stats...And that will screw rng since rng won't be rng anymore.
and how do you intend to make magic fiind give you x% chances of rolling crit chances instead of any other stat in a rng based system...you add another rng to rng ?...The only solution I see that could make your ideea posible is by getting rid of the worthless stats...then maybe it will help...Dunno how you can make Mf add a chance for you to roll good stats.

Except adding a chance to mf to make items spam IAS/Crit/Crit chances/Vitality/Other stats...And that will screw rng since rng won't be rng anymore.

I'm removing RNG. O.o

If I was once rolling between 10 and 200 and are instead now rolling between 109 and 200, I have taken out the chance to roll between 10 and 108 so that part of the RNG factor just completely disappears.

I'm not talking about raising your chance to find a certain affix, I'm talking about in the instance where you do happen to roll the desired affix, it's a great roll instead of having a chance to be mediocre.

For example, it's frustrating to find an item with 40 Str, 60 Vitality, 20 Resist all, 4% Crit Chance, 100 Life on Hit knowing that if you would have had higher rolls, it would have been really awesome.

Now you're almost guaranteed to have a max roll, so when you do happen to get that "Trifecta" you know it's going to be good.

Thus, magic find actually does alter the quality of loot, and doesn't just end up giving you more of it.
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MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
lessening drop rate sound good caus there are to many items to id around. I think one problem with items are that they (never) can roll perfect stats kinda like in diablo 2 u could always know when it had perfect stats. lets say u buy a witching H. u want best ias 9% and as hight crit dmg but the resr of the stats are most often blurs/diffrent all the time making every item to uniq? to much luck in it?
This would effectively turn mp10 games mandatory. As you stated, its already hard to find desirable stat combos, let alone good rolls. So all players would feel forced to play in a dificulty they probably are not ready for, thus breeding (even more) leechers in pubs, and ppl rage quiting all over because the game suddenly got too dificult.

You could say that nobody would force themselves to play at mp10 because the affixes are still random, but even so i would feel cheated if because of playing in mp0, a well affixed gloves (cc,cd,ias,main stat,vit,all res) rolled anything lower than 109 main stat...

Thats the wrong way to go i think.

Everyone already is forced into playing on MP10 anyway because of the Bonus Item Roll system it introduced.

If you're not farming MP10 comfortably you're not being as efficient as you could be.

I honestly see no difference right now.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
lessening drop rate sound good caus there are to many items to id around. I think one problem with items are that they (never) can roll perfect stats kinda like in diablo 2 u could always know when it had perfect stats. lets say u buy a witching H. u want best ias 9% and as hight crit dmg but the resr of the stats are most often blurs/diffrent all the time making every item to uniq? to much luck in it?


Are you one of those people who just has to have a "perfect" 141 Def shako?
I just read the original post and I agree that less drops, but better quality is the way to go. Perhaps MF should work to tighten up rolls as rares actually become more rare. The problem as acknowledged by Travis lies in broken itemization. The real problem is everyone want the same stats. For offense crit chance, crit damage, attack speed and main stat. For defense all res, armor, vit and life steal or life on hit. Weapons need high dps and a socket plus any of the previously mentioned stats.

Until the fundamental problems are fixed nothing else will matter, but I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm just pointing out what has to be fixed first.
Until the fundamental problems are fixed nothing else will matter, but I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm just pointing out what has to be fixed first.

I know.

I just wanted to point out that logistically it is possible to accomplish the "Less but better" approach without "reinventing the wheel" so to speak.

Magic Find would actually be an awesome mechanic at that point.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2

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