Why RoE?

Witch Doctor
"Spirit spells return 49 mana over 10 seconds."
Casting a spirit spells grants ~5 mana/sec for 10 seconds.
Spirit Walk costs 49 mana.
Haunt costs 98 mana.
Horrify costs 37 mana.
Mass Confusion costs 74 mana.
Soul Harvest costs 59 mana.
Spirit Barrage costs 108 mana.

The only time you will gain mana with Rush of Essence is when you use Horrify and it's minimal. Aren't there better passives that we can use instead of one that gives us 5 mana a second...?

Someone please explain this because I think I missed something.
In terms of mana, there are choices, eg. locust swarm, spiders, haunt.
WoS with RoE is to deal high damage (400+% per cast) while building up the mana returns, after casting a steady stream (say 6 casts), you will get about 30 extra mana each sec, to spam more WoS or bears or whatever you choose.

The other skills may be to cast once and forget, until it's time for the next casting cycle. Trading off DPS with higher mana returns. Some are AOE or multi-targets (locust or spiders), while Haunt is also single target, but the dot does not stack for the same haunted target.

WoS with RoE is just one of the combos in good balance. This combo seems rather popular because players can compare with 2 out of 3 bears hitting a single target per cast. Effectively replacing the skill slot as your primary attack. Comparing WoS DPS against all the 4 primary attacks, WoS wins easily. For single kiting targets (say ZK or Magdha or Succubus), with some niche gear, WoS can easily out-damage bears too.

For each mana generation and mana dump combo, you will need to custom fit it for your attack speed and play style. It's up to you to choose your combo.

This is just the summary concept, for details, you best ask the math experts.
Is this a good example of a build with good single target/aoe capablities?


How does the locust swarm rune that returns mana work? Is it efficient to use locust swarm on single target like bosses?
Looking at your gear with only 1 mana regen item and fast attack speed, it seems that your bears can only come in bursts. I'm not sure if you can be mana positive when you cast WoS non-stop. If you cannot build back your mana pool, how can you regen enough mana to activate the next cycle of bears? You'll be stuck at just maintaining the WoS casting.

Building mana and spending mana is a balancing act. Your build suggestion is good because you have AOE bears and WoS for tough terrain (wallers) or kiting elites. However, the mana build up needs to be tested in-game to see if it works for you. For WD, 0 mana = 0 DPS, even our primaries have casting cost.

Locust works best when there are many trash mobs to "bounce" around. For single bosses, other mana skills may be better, or simply WoS all the way. Why don't you start your experiment by trying out different combos? If you have a spare Active slot, try locusts. If you have a spare Passive slot, try RoE.

With this build. Doing what PaulNg said, as long as I can keep casting WoS to maintain a nice ramp of mana, with my additional 40 mana per second, I can spam Bears for a very long time.

Try it out and just make sure to cast WoS a lot. Which isn't a bad thing since all it's doing is killing things and giving you more mana to kill more things. Hell, I even use it in PVP to make sure I can keep spamming WoS over and over and over and over again. Here's my PVP build. I love it.


Spam WoS over and over again while your doggies annoy and help you take 25% less damage. Hex em if they get close, Plague Bat them and WoS.. they should be dead. Horrify if you can't kill them while they're hexed so they run away and you get an armor buff while Hex CD resets. Rinse and repeat. But you should be able to kill most classes this way. For DH you need to sneak up on with Jaunt. Otherwise they stay hidden and shoot from far away... And time it right or else you're going to get Impaled.
That was just a theoretical build. I've been looking for something new because this is what I typically run with: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bfZdUi!cYT!bcbccZ
I rely on the orbs from the Grasp of the Dead rune and my passives to regen mana. When it's a single mob whenever I need mana I throw 4 or 5 Spiders to get mana going again but I've been trying to do higher than mp5 and the elites tend to last longer so I've been looking for something a bit less mana intensive.

Think I should switch my Thing of the Deep to a Zunimassa's (- Bears), and get a Visage of Giyua for more mana regen? Or maybe get a Gory Fetch (- Bears). What rings are there that you can roll - Bears on it?
@SunTzu why Toads though?
Do yourself a favor and use Locust Swarm/Devouring Swarm. It returns 43 mana for every monster it hits. Plus you can spam it against different group members to make even more mana.

My "ironman" mana build uses no active or passive mana skills other than Locusts to generate mana for bears, plus I use PtV. So it is a very mana deficient build. However it is fun to play and causes you to think and plan carefully before attacking mobs.
I run with about 800 LoH and RoT can heal me to full pretty damn quick. WoS and Bears can crit upwards of 600k for me so whenever RD is up, I can take a lot of damage since I don't have an LS.
RoE builds up temporary mana regen. The others spirit spells aren't meant for spamming and RoE is kind of useless, more or less, for them.

If you hold down SB, eventually your mana per second in your character sheet gets up over 140/s, depending on your attack speed. This temporary mana per second can be used to cast bears.

Vision Quest stacks with that, so it's possible to run RoE, VQ, and PtV, for instance.

WoS and Bears compliment each other really well. WoS covers bears' weaknesses and vise versa.

I normally use the zuni set with a visage for as much mana regen as I can get without a knife. I use RoE, Blood Ritual, and whatever (except PtV). I use WoS, Bears, and Acid Rain.

I happen to use +25% SB damage between zuni String of Skulls and SoJ, which works out to +100% damage for each WoS attack (you get four times the +SB damage with WoS). At 525% damage it's more than two bears (236*2 = 472). Since I use pets, most enemies stay relatively still, so I normally target one elite at a time unless, mixing in bears when possible to hit multiple targets.

For -bears cost, these are possible:
String of Skulls with crit and -bears.
SoJ with -bears. (probably best in slot for almost all situations)
Skull Graps with -bears. (with my gear, it's either skull graps or SoJ, because I need the zuni pox, and SoJ is way better)
Mara's amulet with -bears.
Thanks guys you've been helpful. Gonna try some stuff out when I get off work and I'll get back to you with all my nubtard glory. lol
I have another question. Do you think it will more beneficial to get +SB or -Bears on a ring/off hand using http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#gfXdUi!cfe!ZcZccZ
Personally if you are using bears and WoS I find it infinitely better to use +SB gear over -zc cost gear.
Watch your mana return when you run RoE. I have a base mana regen of 88. With my spirit build, when RoE starts up, it will run up to 141/sec. I'd say thats worth it.
i like my build for my WD 206k dps , RoT , and acid cloud and the spiders and zuni set for mana re gen , spam acid cloud and RoT and spiders then go into spirit walk, rinse and repeat , with 400 cd and 49% cc i am dealing 3-4 mil crit damage and mowing down mp7-9 solo ...but if yall see any changes i could make let me know i am open for any ideas


i like my build for my WD 206k dps , RoT , and acid cloud and the spiders and zuni set for mana re gen , spam acid cloud and RoT and spiders then go into spirit walk, rinse and repeat , with 400 cd and 49% cc i am dealing 3-4 mil crit damage and mowing down mp7-9 solo ...but if yall see any changes i could make let me know i am open for any ideas

Extremely hard to believe you. I have higher stats in every way (unbuffed DPS, high minimum damage, 52% acid rain CC, 500+% CHD, I use SH and GF to get a temporary 360k DPS in game, and my bears can't even reach 2m crit, much less the initial numbers for AC crit (maybe around 600k-700k).

What you smoking dude? You're counting 1 extra zero to all your 300k-400k crit AC damage, and that is a very GENEROUS estimate for your fast attacking low average damage 1H weapon.

You're open for any ideas? I'll give you an idea, go open your own thread for your ego trip. Stop sprouting lies and writing rubbish on other people's threads. You are completely off-topic, and fail in reading comprehension. At the very least, with some amount of self-respect and decency, you could have stated why RoE or why not.
Hello, I thought I would pop by and say hello and try help you with this RoE business.

RoE was designed for the WD who either didn't want couldn't afford mana regen however works best with mana regen items.

Now let us for a moment suggest you are running BR with GF and GI, this gives you a -15% mana cost on SB.

SB now costs you 92 mana, working from base mana and mana regen you have 45 mana per second and 740 mana to spend.

740 mana will give you 8 casts which will give you 49*8 = 392 now this isn't the best way of looking at it because well it isn't, say you are using a CK which is 1.4 APS.

You will use all the casts possible in 5.7 seconds however at this point your mana regen is now at 85 (ish) mana regen per second and can still get higher and due to the mana regen you will be able to cast still.

So you spent nearly 6 seconds regening mana at 85 mana per second (I know it's not but just relax) that's another 510 mana and so another 5 casts (I said relax) so 5 casts which then take 3.5 seconds added to the 5.7 seconds we're not out of the 10 seconds yet however we have had 13 casts of RoE.

13 casts gives u 65 mana regen ontop of the 45 for 110 mana regen meaning that we are almost gaining mana for using a decay skill without any +mana or +MR items.

This is the point of RoE.
I think a point not discussed here is the fact that WoS, is a very disimilar spell from bears, and you are not going to stand in front of the hordes at say the bridge in Act III, and have time to get a mana stream going.
WoS is good for group play, ubers or elites, or as a ranged support skill. Sure you can kill one or two targets with it and set up a mana stream. But otherwise it isn't the go to skill for knocking things over in a hurry.
If you want to kite like a mad man and solely use WoS, than that's up to you, but this theory of setting up a mana stream is very situational. That's why WoS is often paired with bears, not so much that WoS can set up a mana stream for bears, but because the two skills have entirely different functions.
Well of Souls with Haunt after you've prepped the tgt area with Soul Harvest+Spirit Walk (Vengeful Spirit and Severence respectively) There's your mana stream. Granted I only run mp4+ solo with no pets or followers, but Rush of Essence is a great passive when combined with Blood Ritual and Grave Injustice. Oh, don't want to forget about Horrify (Frightening Aspect) and Mass Confusion (Unstable Realm). Six spells all sending mana back thru RoE. Never a mana issue. (But again only mp4.)
I only said it was good for those with no MR and low Mana, I certainly wouldn't use it... or would I?

Hum ok planning a build for a bit of fun, I shall get back to you.

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