Bring back the Skill Tree please

General Discussion
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Honestly, while I would love to have the skill trees come back, they won't be.

So, I propose a different system. A system of modifiers that you get every 3-5 paragon levels. These modifiers allow you to increase the power of skills, but cost 500k to respec out of. I know we will never get away from the "load out" approach Blizzard has taken, but this might provide a reason to progress.
Why do you even bother with this? I don't even have to talk about how I disagree, or why. It's simply not going to happen. You wasted your own time writing this, and everyone else's who bothered to read more than a couple of sentences.
Good Discussion.

As much as I enjoy adding skill points to trees, I don't think it would be good for Diablo 3's active skills. That being said, I think the game seriously lacks customization. Although, there is HUGE potential for customization among items and maybe passive skills.

From my understanding, players that would like skill trees, want:
-"Effort, planning, and time played" that leads to a unique, specific playstyle for their character and class.
-Is that not correct?
-Great Itemization could be the solution.

Currently:
The current state of item's stats/affixes is very poor. Generally speaking, items only contribute to the amount of damage you deal and how well you survive. They rarely contribute to skill build variety. You can buy/find one great gear set for your character and play pretty much any skill build successfully. That is where itemization fails.

Modern Customization System:
Itemization should involve effort, a plan, and time spent to create an effective gear set that backs up a specific set of skills you would like to use. The time it takes to get the gear you need to unleash your chosen skill build should take time based on the item stats you are looking for. The time could be the equivalent of the time it takes to level up, but without leveling up again, rather playing endgame the whole time. Your time spent towards creating unique builds should be through playing the endgame gear hunt, not leveling new characters.

-This system would effectively allow players to spend great amounts of time creating unique characters and builds.
-Their builds would only be usable with the correct gear (that would take time to obtain).
-You would no longer be able to simply switch builds without obtaining the proper gear to use them.
-One gear set could no longer play every skill well (as is currently).
-You can now create many unique builds (much more unique than skill trees), and all without making tons of characters and repeating the leveling process.

But:
For this to work though, itemization needs to be vastly improved, and not just legendaries. Rares need to have all sorts of vastly different affixes that affect all skills in various ways, good and bad. Damage and Reduction should be of much less importance than affixes that directly affect skills.
I didn't read this thread because I have trouble reading because I am a mindless meatsack with a credit card. For that reason, I want to thank Blizzard for placing my Stat points for me, and for making the RMAH so easily available to me. My Barb really needed those 60 points in Int. I'm not sure what for, but they're there because Blizzard gave them to me as they are so it must be working as intended.
03/28/2013 07:07 PMPosted by KradisZ
Oh I guess then in D2 you did not have any left mouse clicking at. You even use letters and punctuation keys to fire off skills. I guess you could even punch the computer screen and get the skill to fire, right. You either quicly scrolled through the skills using the wheel, inefficient approach. Or you used the function keys. Hey that is a lot like using 1,2,3,4,5,6. So then all builds in D2 according to your point above played the same.

So you're saying D3 simplified from that then? Because AFAIK D2 had WAY more key mappings then D3 ever will to activate abilities.


What I am saying is real simple and I do not understand why you do not get it. I will try again.
Here is a make believe session of D2:LOD and tell me if this actually happened. Tell me if it all happened without the player doing anything at all.

When he started he was using the function keys to use some skills. Minutes later he was hitting letter keys. Minutes later he was hitting punctuation keys. Where the game itself kept changing how the keys were mapped out on it's own. Of course it never happened that way. If you did not personally change the mapping of the usage of the skills. You always used the function keys for skills. Which is a lot like using both mouse buttons and the four number keys.

top ten you say? god you're so easy to prove wrong
Rank 10 Nebula Queen, Echoing Fury 2.70% damage converted to life, suck it ShadowAegis.
Top ten bud, now stop blowing smoke up my !@#.
#3 Yoo also Barb, with IK Tribal Binding 2.80% life steal or DAMAGE CONVERTED TO LIFE if you want to be extremely technical about it.

Here I made a befitting image just to rub it in your face. :D
http://imgur.com/VZoqhk1

That took literally 31 seconds.

The ones that don't have it, guess what? THEY'RE NOT MELEE.
Which in turn further supports my original statement


Again when did I say everyone, I said some of the top ten players that I was looking at when I last checked. Some where using life steal from their skills. Some were not using it at all. They did not have a weapon with life steal on or and they ware not using skills that have life still. Then there are no doubt some that are using it to the insane degree as you mentioned. But not all of them are using it.

So the next time you check that site please do the following. When you get to diabloprogeress.com please go characters and hit hero score. Then check the top ten in each class and you will see what I saw. That even some of the top ranked players are not using life steal in their gear. They are letting their skills handle that. Then some of them are not even using any life steal at all in either their gear or skills. So my point still stands.
+1 to skill tree system. It would really make your character feel more like your own - you're making important decisions that they will be stuck with!

-1 to skill point allocation system, though. Skill point hoarding just isn't fun, IMHO.
NN Skill Tree.
TY.
Good night, Sir
Skill trees. Everyone would just end up with the same "most efficient" build after reading guides online.

Though you would live under the illusion you built this character yourself. And maybe thats a good thing.

Illusion.

Anyway it is a dead horse and not worth beating.
While skill tree was a lot of fun in D2, as players stated before people copy builds rather than figure them out themselves so there is relatively no difference... excluding that with the new system you can actually reset builds for free. I think the only thing that was nifty with the older set up was the diversity of skills and the ability to swap through them without negative consequence such as losing buffs lol. People will just google and cookie cutter their characters every patch regardless of the skill system implemented. All games come down to 2 things... kill things get shinys. Thank god the shinys are actually viable and drop more frequently now. :D
just remake a proper game.
@WarlockHolmz:

This is what I hope. I think this is the way the game are going to follow. They will not only change legendary. They will start with legendary. So they only speak about these changes in the blog on itemization.

Items are a topic with a tremendous amount of depth and also a very sensitive subject, so I’ll do my best to provide some of our insights into the matter. Removing “bad” affixes is certainly a suggestion that surfaces from time to time, another suggestion is to group all the good affixes into a shared category so that they can’t all roll on the same item. I think on the surface those sound good but the reality of what they would do to the itemization isn’t what we want. I addressed the topic of the “bad” affixes in a prior post about items so I won’t go into too much more detail here, but I think it’s well within our ability to make those affixes compelling for some people, Pickup Radius and Witch Doctors are a good example of this. Specifically as it relates to Thorns, no one will disagree that in its current state is pretty lackluster, but it supports a play style that I’m sure we can capture with enough alterations to both the core mechanic and some supporting class abilities and passives.


extracted form:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7980249170?page=20#387
I play D1 & D2!

I love runes => spell books and skill tree.

P.S. Don't force every player to like D1, D2 style of play. There is already D2 *server still running* Please go ahead and play that.
03/28/2013 06:00 PMPosted by Genez
AND IT IS PERFECT THIS WAY.


LOOOOOOOL
They need to copy PoE's skill tree, but be sure to balance it in a way that you don't just brainlessly spam DPS with almost no hp/res(Diablo 3) or spend 80% of your points on life(PoE).
STOP THE SKILL TREE WHINING!
skill tree didnt work in d2 we had 2 maybe 3 at most builds for every character. oh you put that one skill in the wrong slot reroll your character. rerolling ok cuz u can play around lmao whenever u rerolled in d2 u got rushed as fast as u can. with balancing still going on the want for spells will change and you will be angry u have to reroll a char cuz they nerfed ur spell.

next ull want to bring bat stat points back. yea real creative just enough str to use ur items and the rest into vit
I fully understand your point. But although somethings you say are appealing I do not think the game "the way it has been created" would be at its best with a tree system. The devs have specifically wanted to wag the dog from the tail rather than the head. You want to create a char and they want your char to create different and all fun paths associated with different gear sets (that ultimately allow a char to be different characters all at the same time). You want to pick skills or points to direct your char, they want you to find stuff and gear sets to direct your char's type and development.

I think the devs have made the correct choice and support them.

HOWEVER, the problem with the devs is that they forgot what their goal was and did not provide a good way to create builds thru gear accumulation since it is practically impossible to collect the needed gear(without purchase). Then we are left with ah hunting rather than monster hunting.

I love my CM Wizard but withoiut a 20M guide to gearing him in the ah I could never have that build. No fun collecting gear from the AH. That practically is my ONLY choice and imo that is bad. Your answer does not solve the problem, it only creates a new one.

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