Advanced Skill Runes ((Skill Rune Tiers))

General Discussion
Ive been thinking about ways to customize skills without "Rune Ranks" or "Skill Points" and what Ive come up with is Multi-Tiered skill runes.

Im not a developer on this game, and these aren't patch notes so obviously nothing is finalized. Here is an example of what I'm thinking

((Here I have an example of the "Primary" school that would work for most classes I think, I did make it looking specifically at the monk class because that is the class I am most knowledgeable of))
Tier 1: All original skills & runes
Tier 2: Increased AoE//add splash damage, Decreased AoE+Increased Damage, remove chance for crit((with whatever skill this is active for)) & add 5% damage per crit chance you have ((others that would possibly be comparable as a trade-off, up to maybe a max of four runes))
Tier 3: Was thinking possibly resource management runes, up to 2-3. Increase resource gained per strike by 2, decrease resource gained per strike by 3 & increase damage by 15%

A different approach could be instead of set tiers per "School" it could look something like:

Tier 1: All original skills & runes
Tier 2: ~4 Runes based on the "school" or the basic skill
Tier 3: ~3 Runes based on the specific skill rune selected.

Looking for input//constructive criticism. If you do not like it, either do not post, or post in a way where you are not saying "This sucks" or "wont happen". Tell me either what you don't like, or why it wouldn't work.
Nobody has any comments or input on this?
Seems like a good idea, it would add another level to the skill selection. Before this occurs, though, I would like to see more of the useless skills become more useable (talking to you barb passives that aren't ruthless or weapons master). Once we have a broader selection of 'useable/useful' skills, adding the tiers to them could be a huge improvement. I really like the idea of more cost = more dps, by the way. I am sure they could build on that a lot. Hope to see it!
Im hoping this will catch the eye of bliz designers and inspire them to do something like this.
Hopefully this isn't considered "A roundabout way of implementing diablo 2's skill system"
Up for more views.
Looking for someone to make an example like mine based maybe around a different "School" than primaries, and a different class than monk.
It would be a matter of choice. Like how now, you can still choose to use no rune in a skill, but its pointless to do.
Tier 2 would have about four skill runes to choose from and an option for no skill rune at that level.

As for the thread for modding, Im not 100% for modding, but I do like the idea of player created content. I think something I would like more than straight modding is an editor available for all people, and the ability to test other players content on the PTR and vote it in or out of the main game.

Hopefully we see a change in the devs.
My main reason for posting this is their recent activity in the forums, replying to others ideas. And hoping they will see this and go in this direction for more player customization. Realistically, if one of them see it and decide to post, one of two things will happen.
1.) "Roundabout way of implementing diablo 2's skill point system blah blah blah.."
2.) "Something similar is on the table, but at this moment we have no plans.."
Example of another tier2 or 3 skill rune
Leap: Tier 2or3: Remove cooldown from leap, leap no longer generates fury.
The problem is people would pile certain runes for maximum efficiency. This would also make skills stronger so the current game content would be considerably weaker. Some runes might not be compatible with tier 1 runes due to changes in skill mechanics.
People already pile runes for efficiency.
Instead of how I originally suggested it, it could work that whatever rune you choose in the tier above determines what choices you have next.

Bash(Barb Skill)
Punish(Skill Rune Tier 1[Already in place])
"Example skill"(Tier 2)
The effect can now stack up to 4 times, but lasts only 3 seconds
"Another example"(Tier 3)
Increase the damage bonus to 12%, but now only affects bash
I suggested something similar, but more simple and probably a bit more doable.

I suggested 2 parallel rune classes for each skill. For each skill chosen you could pick 1 rune from each rune class, for a total of 2 runes per skill. The two classes would be broken into categories such as 'defense', and 'offense', as befitting the skill.

You could have a class of runes that modify the offensive capabilities or behavior of the skill, and another rune class that modified the defensive, mobility, or resource management aspects of the skill.
Looks to me like the OP is trying to sneak in those outdated skills trees through the back door... naughty, naughty! Of course, I fully approve. Though I think that at least 10 tiers, each one resulting in a sizeable strenghtening of the skill, should be the mininum.
And then we should have runes, charms, socket quests and a Horadric Cube as well.
In lieu of actual skill trees, I'm all for leveling up runes in a fashion... I've even suggested having them be respec-able WITH a time or gold commitment...

There has to be a way.... sadly I do not have an opinion on this (SHOCKING I KNOW)... but in the future I'll think of something. One of my OLD post suggested allowing for each "SKILL" to be augmented by allowing us to pick 1,2, and finally 3 runes for the SAME skill at the SAME time... Obviously you'd have your main pick, which would govern the MOVEMENT of the skill...

For example if I wanted to get leap... but I wanted to have pull and push... the game would black out push as a choice after I selected PULL as my (tree trunk) rune. By that I mean that now the game would know that when I jump into a pile of monster I want to always be pulling them in... after that, the game would allow me to pick 2 more runes to augment this initial skill....

So maybe now I pull guys in (1).... Slow all attackers from the point that I took off from (2)... and do extra damage upon landing (3)...

Just thoughts...
@kasmel: I like that idea as well. It sounds similar to mine except with only two tiers. which I'm totally for. Anything to add a bit more customization.

@Presence: Ha, I'm not trying to fully bring back skill trees, but I think a lot of people can agree the skills need more options. Whereas in skill trees the more points you put in, the more damage it does, these skill runes would augment the effects of the main skill rather than just upping the ante damage-wise. Mainly what I want is more viable builds. Possibly with itemization that will happen, but with more options in your skills as well as more options in gearing the possibilities could be endless.

"One of my OLD post suggested allowing for each "SKILL" to be augmented by allowing us to pick 1,2, and finally 3 runes for the SAME skill at the SAME time"

Essentially that is what I wrote above, except skillrune 1, 2, and 3 are divided into seperate sections where each section has it own choices of runes. As the skills are now, just choosing three of the skillrunes would be way overpowered for some.

Wave of Light: Wall of Light///Empowered Wave///Blinding Light
See in this situation we have a 40 spirit costing, 1200damage dealing skill that stuns on critical hits.

Instead of my earlier post it could be more like what kasmel said where Skill tier((group//class)) 1 alters damage vs resource ((in some cases increasing resource regen for reduced damage, reducing resource cost for reduced damage, reducing resource regen for increased damage etc.))
#2 could alter the way the skill works. Like thunderclap(fist of thunder), maybe add a dash to the attack. or add splash damage//more aoe area.

The different groups could really be anything.
04/29/2013 12:14 PMPosted by ManBearPig
@kasmel: I like that idea as well. It sounds similar to mine except with only two tiers. which I'm totally for. Anything to add a bit more customization.

You can see the thread I made for my idea almost a year ago here

As you can tell it got ever so much traction..:P
yeah i could live with this
Hybrid between all skills swappable and skill tree system maybe?

Tiered skill points unlock 1 per 5 paragons... Then you have to choose permanent rune upgrades.

[biased opinion because I like the 1-60 lvl grind and am now going for my second lvl60 of each class in opposite gender]
04/29/2013 03:37 PMPosted by JackOfHearts
Tiered skill points unlock 1 per 5 paragons... Then you have to choose permanent rune upgrades.

I like this idea.
Rewards for P Levels.
Although I doubt if they implement something like this, it will be using the paragon system, they will probably work it into the 1-60 grind because Travis Day said:

"Another system we haven’t talked about before is the long term plan to change the way the Paragon system works to allow it to offer more character customization in the form of actual power."
Link to his post:
[Huge wall of text, its most the way down if you re-read it]

@Kasmel: I see that your idea was quite similar to mine. Ive seen quite a few different idea threads to help customization more, so maybe the community+devs will be ready to listen now.

by the way, if you like anything you've read here, click the thumbs up on the original post to bring it to more peoples attention.
I've also suggested something similar previously -

But whichever way you look at it, there was nothing wrong with skill points.
This adds diversity, isn't their idea, is an idea that would work and promote fun play, it creates incentive, requires work, doesn't affect the RMAH with a positive light = Not even considered and you will probably be banned for free thinking. They are just to jargen blind.

(Censored courtesy to a lame excuse to not use the chat filter because we must be good boys and girls when it comes to blocking our cuss words away from their own built in chat filter. Use this as your signature if you think that using the filter will get you banned is bull woppers.)

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