Arcane Torrent tick frequency mechanics

Wizard
After posting skill mechanics for certain other classes
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497 <- WW & RLTW (Barb)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569329357 <- Strafe & Rapid Fire (DH)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568377461?page=4#61 <- Plague Bats (WD)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568960808?page=6#118 <- Cloud of Bats (WD)

here´s something for Wizards. I apologize in advance for choosing one of the least used Wizard skills first. I won´t post why I chose it and why today, basically here´s what I figured out so far.

Important note: The damage values are from the live version of the game. I´m aware that the Arcane Torrent skill damage is being adjusted currently on the PTR. I´ll update this post when the new damage values are final.

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DISRUPTION
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-> arcane type attacks deal 15% more damage after the initial tick
-> the 15% damage bonus is additive (to the likes of glass cannon)
-> damage per tick = 210%/3 = 70% weapon damage
-> tick frame length = floor (20/aps)
-> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
DEATH BLOSSOM
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-> damage per tick = 670%/3 = 223.33% weapon damage
-> tick frame length = floor (20/aps)
-> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ARCANE MINES
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-> 180% weapon damage per mine
-> max 6 mines out at the same time
-> with enough aps it places more than one with a single click
-> cast frame length = floor (40/aps)
-> cost per cast = 16 * 2/3 = 10.67 arcane power
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
POWER STONE
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-> damage per tick = 210%/3 = 70% weapon damage
-> tick frame length = floor (20/aps)
-> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
CASCADE
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-> damage per tick = 210%/3 = 70% weapon damage
-> tick frame length = floor (20/aps)
-> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power
-> additional missile on kill deals 210% weapon damage

Disruption, Death Blossom, Power Stone, Cascade breakpoints
attacks per second - tick frame length - tick frequency
0.90000-0.90909 aps - 22 frames - 2.73 ticks per second
0.90910-0.95238 aps - 21 frames - 2.86 ticks per second
0.95239-1.00000 aps - 20 frames - 3.00 ticks per second
1.00001-1.05263 aps - 19 frames - 3.16 ticks per second
1.05263-1.11111 aps - 18 frames - 3.33 ticks per second
1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 frames - 3.53 ticks per second
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames - 3.75 ticks per second
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 frames - 4.00 ticks per second
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 frames - 4.29 ticks per second
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 frames - 4.62 ticks per second
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 frames - 5.00 ticks per second
1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 frames - 5.45 ticks per second
1.81819-1.99999 aps - 10 frames - 6.00 ticks per second
2.00000-2.22222 aps - 9 frames - 6.67 ticks per second
2.22223-2.49999 aps - 8 frames - 7.50 ticks per second
2.50000-2.85714 aps - 7 frames - 8.57 ticks per second
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames - 10.0 ticks per second
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 frames - 12.0 ticks per second
4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 frames - 15.0 ticks per second
Thanks for sharing the info. That's very consistant with http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5208511084 except the mines data indicates a speed coefficient of 2, while the post says 1.

That means mines deals about twice as much dps as expected but uses about 33% more AP then expected (4/3*16 per attack speed instead of 16).
I already told Guybrush it's a speed coefficient of 1.5 for Arcane Mines, but he didn't get around to fix it (or maybe he wants to verify first).

Thanks for sharing Nubtro.

[edit]Oh, did you guys read Wyatt's "explanation"? http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1czvje/is_the_arcane_torrent_damage_per_missile_fired_or/
Nice work! Thanks for sharing Nubtro. I've been a fan of a lot of the other work you've done, especially the stuff regarding barb and witch doctor skills. :)
Nice to see you posting on the Wiz forums, Nubtro. I've seen and bookmarked some of your previous work on barbs RLTW tick rates. Thanks for dropping by and welcome to the Wiz forums.
Really appreciate this!
very nice, somehow its kind of accurate: check my profile guys.

currently i got 1.18 aps, -5 arcane torrent, and 14 arcane regen per second so i fall under these:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/yemen_241/sssarc_zps2b7402a6.png

1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames - 3.75 ticks per second


with -> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power

thats (3.75 x 5.33) - (5arcane torrent reduction) - (14 arcane regen) = 0.9875

so i lack like 1 arcane regen per sec to permanently cast torrent indefinitely which is actually true coz my arcane regen is still dropping just a tiny bit whenever i channel torrent.
Thanks for the nice words guys.

@apo: heh didn´t want to outright say it initially but when you already brought it up...I tested the skill after reading that comment where channeling skills were put into one bag although each one uses a different aps scaling...that woke up the researcher in me so I had to see how Arcane Torrent really worked. Don´t trying to act like mr. know-it-all here, let´s say the reason for this research ws curiosity (it was) and leave it at that.

Anyway, for the average player who doesn´t want to minmax and doesn´t care about breakpoints, tooltip damage times aps for most skills is roughly accurate. It becomes a problem if the skill animation is faster/slower than what you´d expect (so the tooltip is misleading). For example Barb´s Weapon Throw which you would assume is 60/aps, is actually 49/aps and Seismic Slam on the other hand is 78/aps between two attacks. That being said, no Barb skill is 60/aps ._.

04/25/2013 11:02 PMPosted by yems
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames - 3.75 ticks per second

with -> cost per tick = 16/3 = 5.33 arcane power
thats (3.75 x 5.33) - (5arcane torrent reduction) - (14 arcane regen) = 0.9875
so i lack like 1 arcane regen per sec to permanently cast torrent indefinitely which is actually true coz my arcane regen is still dropping just a tiny bit whenever i channel torrent.

I only ran a few tests last night considering the cost reduction of the skill, because from researching Firebats I know that cost reduction doesn´t always work at 100%. It seems to work right for AT ((16 - reduction) / 3) but I´ll have to do more tests as with your stats you should lose 13.75 and regen 14 AP...you say you still lose a bit hmm.

The thing is, the resource globe uses decimals (not sure how many) and so it´s pretty tough to figure out the actual cost per tick for certain skills. I got globe responses of -5 and -6 when testing the group of Arcane Torrent runes that share the scaling and -10/-11 on Arcane Mines.

As for Arcane Mines, here´s an example of its sequence at 1.00 aps:

15(-10),5,7,5,6,6,6,4(-11),2,6,6,6,6,6,6,2(-10),4,6,6,6,6,6,6(-10 this),6,6,6,6,6,6,4(-11)

The initial AP response occurred at frame 15, then after 39 frames (note that in the next test it was 14 and 40), 40 frames, 40 frames and 40 frames. The other responses are AP regeneration, which is 1 AP each 6 frames (I had 10 regen while doing the test). Note that the forelast AT response in the sequence is actually -11 but I also got the regen response (+1) on the same frame thus -10. The initial response might have also been -11, sometimes the regen starts instantly.

I plan to do some tests on the PTR now to check the adjusted damage of the skill and I´ll test the cost reduction. Also, I´ll probably make an Arcane Mines breakpoints chart including the time it takes to lay all 6 mines. Now with the improved damage, it could be a viable skill.

EDIT: Ok the initial Arcane Mine tick is unaffected by aps and occurs on frame 14 (it was the same even with 3.186 aps). All subsequent ticks happen at the floor(40/aps) frequency. So the time it´ll take you to lay all 6 mines is

(14 + 5 * (floor(40/aps))

For example at 3.00 aps you only need 79 frames or 79/60 = 1.31667 second.

EDIT 2: Confirming the buffed damage of the skill on the PTR. 340% weapon damage per Mine, the other runes deal 285%/3 = 95% weapon damage per tick and Death Blossom stayed at 670%/3.
wished you would do tick rates or how blizzard damage really works next time :D
as you may see blizzard can be a very good sidekick to wizzy's channeling skills such as torent and disintegrate
Blizzard is a true damage ver time skill (DoT) and it doesn´t scale with aps. It currently deals tooltip damage (510%) / 12 = 42.5% weapon damage each 30 frames (half a second), no matter what your aps is.

So there´s no breakpoints for Blizzard (I´d have to check how the initial tick behaves but it wouldn´t make a significant difference).

Note that getting unsteady damage ticks for Blizzard is nothing unusual for a DoT. In the end, the sum of damage ticks is 510% weapon damage.

EDIT: Seems like the fact that Blizzard is the only DoT I know of that procs on crit effects (APoC), also changed its mechanics. Before the change, like any other DoT, it was all or nothing. Either all ticks were critical or none. Now after a bit of testing it seems each tick can crit separately and if it crits, it deals half of critical hit damage.
i figured it would be like rend :D
interesting!

so if i use at at 1.3 aps it means im getting 4 ticks/s at 5.33 ap per tick it means 21.32 ap/sec

i have 14ap reg / sec so im at a 7.32 ap deficit/s.

but then i use 10 apoc so with my 52% cc x 4 ticks x 0.12 proc x 10 apoc = 2.5 ap/s per target.

so im at a 4.82 ap deficit at single target.

and at ap surplus at 3 or more targets. sounds pretty accurate yo!

thx for the info man!

it would be really cool if u could provide same infor for ray of frost so i can minmax it for pvp!
Hello, i've just stumbled upon this thread looking for good inputs on my build. Very detailed, kudos Nubtro! So, i am upping this thread since it might be a good reference on the expansion.

Curious, but did any of these mechanics change since the release of the RoS? I'm fairly new to the wizard and would like to look for some first hand advice.

Currently, i have a choice between 1.27 APS vs 1.49 APS. That's a tick frequency of 4.00 (15 frames) vs 4.62 (13 frames) according to the above posted stats. Since i have not reached a full 4.00 to 5.00 tick break point, i do not benefit from the additional 70% damage per tick right? Or do i still get a benefit even at 4.62 APS?

Thanks! :)

____________________________________________________

Fang Leader - Clan Rogue Wolf ®
05/02/2014 04:50 PMPosted by ZRaiyne
Hello, i've just stumbled upon this thread looking for good inputs on my build. Very detailed, kudos Nubtro! So, i am upping this thread since it might be a good reference on the expansion.

Curious, but did any of these mechanics change since the release of the RoS? I'm fairly new to the wizard and would like to look for some first hand advice.

Currently, i have a choice between 1.27 APS vs 1.49 APS. That's a tick frequency of 4.00 (15 frames) vs 4.62 (13 frames) according to the above posted stats. Since i have not reached a full 4.00 to 5.00 tick break point, i do not benefit from the additional 70% damage per tick right? Or do i still get a benefit even at 4.62 APS?

Thanks! :)

____________________________________________________

Fang Leader - Clan Rogue Wolf ®

Hey man, this thread is really old. I don't even know if those breakpoints are still acurate.
Anyone know if these are still accurate?
05/29/2014 10:38 AMPosted by Tahqa
Anyone know if these are still accurate?

Yes, except for the damage values, obviously.
It's also in here https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237
Ok, so if I'm understanding, I wasn't completely out to lunch to use paragon to push my APS from 1.64 to 1.67 today?
Nevermind, I am functionally retarded.
05/29/2014 01:05 PMPosted by FoxyShoxzy
If you are currently at 1.64, you can increase your APS to 1.66666 to eek out a little more DPS without increasing your AP consumption.

No. Increasing APS from 1.64 to 1.66 does precisely nothing for AT.
If we were talking about Disintegrate or RoF this would be different. But for AT, everything scales with breakpoints, including damage.

So you want to be right at the bottom of a breakpoint, not the top.

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