Mechanics And Game Information Compendium

Wizard
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09/25/2014 11:22 AMPosted by grippgoat
Do movement speed debuffs on monsters stack multiplicatively?

For example, if I hit a monster with:
TF - 30%
Slow Time - 80%
Templar Intimidate - 80%
Temporal Flux - 80%

Is the monster's movement speed reduced by 1 - 0.7 * 0.2 * 0.2 * 0.2 = 99.44%?


No, they're additive.

1 - (0.7 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = -0.30

Which is why you you add a ton of slows on them like above they speed away in the opposite direction at 30% move speed.
Can't tell if serious...
The "Crowd Control" chapter explains slow mechanics in excruciating detail, but those are for monster-inflicted slows on players. However it's reasonable to assume they use the same mechanics all around. Then again, reasonable assumptions don't always work around here.
I like BDF's answer, but it's also possible that they don't stack at all. Highest slow counts, period.

The real answer is: I don't think anyone has ever tested slow effects on monsters. I imagine that would be kinda difficult.
09/25/2014 11:36 AMPosted by grippgoat
Can't tell if serious...


Capture something in slow time(60%), then cast a cold blizzard(80%) on it. It should get slower.

Capture something in blizzard(80%), than cast slow time on it (60%). If it gets slower, they stack somehow, if it remains unchanged, then it's likely highest slow wins.

If they moonwalk backwards at 40% movement speed then you'll know I'm right.
09/25/2014 11:43 AMPosted by apo
The "Crowd Control" chapter explains slow mechanics in excruciating detail, but those are for monster-inflicted slows on players.


I did actually re-read that first. It didn't seem to go into stacking of slows at all.

I'll try and play with it tonight. If a monster's movement speed is reduced by 99.44%, it should be pretty obvious. Also, 30% TF + 60% slow time would be 88% if stacking multiplicatively, which should be pretty noticeable compared to either one by itself.
09/25/2014 11:55 AMPosted by grippgoat
I did actually re-read that first. It didn't seem to go into stacking of slows at all.

Ha, you're right. I haven't read that chapter myself for a while. Could've sworn I tested stacking at one point.
apo,

I tested Meteor Shower the other day and it appears that the DoT is now doing 70% WD. Thought you might want to update the info.

-dolynick
Thanks, updated.

Still unsure when I will get to update everything else. Currently lacking time and more importantly motivation. Maybe in my next vacation.
Thats a lot of info... thanks for sharing.

Trying to understand IAS. I haven't had much to worry about attack speed with other classes, but when I put my paragon points into IAS, I drained my AP much faster but not much difference in kill times. Do I want to stack IAS for channelling spells (Dis/AT/RoF) to the point BEFORE the next breakpoint so I get increased damage but not costing more AP? Or is that just wrong?

You mentioned IAS doesn't affect Blizzard, but it still boosts my dps = increases Blizzard damage?

Sorry for the dumb questions
11/25/2014 12:47 AMPosted by Spike667
Do I want to stack IAS for channelling spells (Dis/AT/RoF) to the point BEFORE the next breakpoint so I get increased damage but not costing more AP? Or is that just wrong?


That is correct. Damage scales 1:1 with attack speed for channeled spells, but the breakpoints determine the cost.

11/25/2014 12:47 AMPosted by Spike667
You mentioned IAS doesn't affect Blizzard, but it still boosts my dps = increases Blizzard damage?


It will not increase your damage. Usually only channeled spells and sometimes pets take into account your attack rate. Otherwise what the game is actually looking at are the min/max damage range on your weapons and offhands regardless of how fast they attack. In your case, on your wizard spike your weapon damage range is: ring+weapon+offhand = (64+1178+358) min to (134+1606+438) max.

So 100% of your weapon damage would be some random number between that your min and max of: 1600 - 2178

The number that is labeled dps on your character detail sheet is your int-buffed, crit-averaged, weapon damage...then multiplier by attack speed. It is nothing but an estimate, and it is not what the game uses when determining how much damage any spell will actually deal.
Happy Thanksgiving!
http://i.imgur.com/X9HxmxV.png
11/26/2014 10:56 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Happy Thanksgiving!
http://i.imgur.com/X9HxmxV.png


Is that using the equation:
Total_Extra_Dmg = 0.20 * Area% * (#Mobs -1 ) * # Mobs

Which assumes the attack itself was aoe...

or does that model single-target attacks only?
11/26/2014 11:15 AMPosted by BDF
11/26/2014 10:56 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Happy Thanksgiving!
http://i.imgur.com/X9HxmxV.png


Is that using the equation:
Total_Extra_Dmg = 0.20 * Area% * (#Mobs -1 ) * # Mobs

Which assumes the attack itself was aoe...

or does that model single-target attacks only?

Nope. It's 0.20 * Area% * (#Mobs -1 ).
It's effective DPS increase, not total extra. Because total extra is kinda useless.
11/26/2014 11:20 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Nope. It's 0.20 * Area% * (#Mobs -1 ).
It's effective DPS increase, not total extra. Because total extra is kinda useless.


Is that not then only effective dps increase when you use a single-target spell? Because if it's an aoe spell each mob in that area then also has the chance to proc it on all of the other ones. Hence the additional #mobs multiplier.

And I just say total extra becuase I don't want to always have a +1 on the end of it for it to be a multiplier.
11/26/2014 11:22 AMPosted by BDF
11/26/2014 11:20 AMPosted by ChangBooster
Nope. It's 0.20 * Area% * (#Mobs -1 ).
It's effective DPS increase, not total extra. Because total extra is kinda useless.


Is that not then only effective dps increase when you use a single-target spell? Because if it's an aoe spell each mob in that area then also has the chance to proc it on all of the other ones. Hence the additional #mobs multiplier.

And I just say total extra becuase I don't want to always have a +1 on the end of it for it to be a multiplier.

Cast an AOE spell at five mobs five times and you get exactly one proc per mob (on average). 25 chances to proc, 5 procs. Four mobs hit by each proc.

Let's say we have 100% AD and our spell hits for 1 damage. The other four mobs each took 100% on each attack or 1 damage if we have effective spell DPS of 1. So, we did 4 extra damage but spread out over five mobs. In the five attacks, we did 4 extra damage five times. So, we did 20 total extra damage spread out over five mobs and five attacks. Each attack hit for an extra 4 damage spread over five mobs or 0.8 damage per mob per attack, or a DPS increase per mob of 80%.

If I just cast magic missile five times at one mob in a pack of five mobs, I only procced AD once. So, I hit four mobs for 1 damage once. 4 total extra damage done to a pack of five mobs over five attacks would be 0.16 damage done per mob per attack or an effective DPS increase of only 16% per mob per attack.
Thanks the easy to understand response :)

Is there a forum or similar with the breakpoints that is up do date? All I can find is forums from '12 for CM builds
Not sure if you're still updating apo, but here is some small info I tested myself last night :
- Hydras DO proc a stack for 'Elemental Exposure'.
- Hydras DO benefit from 'Arcane Dynamo'.

And thanks for the nice post, helped me nicely in the comprehension on the Wizard mechanics :)
@PorcNoStar: Thanks, that's going on the list. But to be honest, I don't think I have it in me anymore. When I started this, I thought that after a certain point we would've figured out everything and maintaining this would be limited to updating a few proc coefficients once in a while. But it is in fact much more than that. Mechanics are a little more volatile than I assumed and the devs are not afraid to fundamentally change how the game works (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

At the same time, I feel like gameplay has become much less focused on mechanics. Maybe a thread like this is not even needed anymore.

I finally do have a long vacation coming up, so if boredom overcomes me I might update a few things.
12/12/2014 11:56 AMPosted by apo
I don't think I have it in me anymore.


I have sensed this in you for some time, but mostly because you've hinted at it more than once.

If you do decide to retire, allow me to thank you for all the help and support you've given thousands of people over the years. We are all grateful for the work you've done, apo.
12/12/2014 12:01 PMPosted by Melkor
12/12/2014 11:56 AMPosted by apo
I don't think I have it in me anymore.


I have sensed this in you for some time, but mostly because you've hinted at it more than once.

If you do decide to retire, allow me to thank you for all the help and support you've given thousands of people over the years. We are all grateful for the work you've done, apo.

Well, the thing is, while apo's the author of the thread and basically spearheaded the whole thing, it's more of a community-based effort for some time now. When players discover/confirm/debunk stuff, information can be added to the thread when all checks out.

Apo doesn't have to singlehandedly take care of everything. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it upon himself to check every claim out himself before adding it to the thread. Unfortunately, there's no shared author system on the forum, so we cannot have multiple people editing the same thread.

Could always start a community wiki and have players update pages on their own and list sources for reference/evidence.
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