Why is increased monster density ONLY inferno?

General Discussion
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05/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Piffle
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.
05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


Why are nightmare and hell treated as hand-holding experiences? Normal is definitely understandable, but why nightmare and especially hell? The four difficulty modes don't seem to serve clear purposes except to draw the leveling process out. In D2 normal was the base game, nightmare was a much tougher mode with some truly dangerous things (lightning enchanted multishot eviction aura archers, zomg), and hell was... hell. Immunities everywhere, resistances in the deep reds, etc.
05/14/2013 05:30 PMPosted by Saigyouji
Why are nightmare and hell treated as hand-holding experiences?

This pretty much. Normal is meant to be... Normal. Nightmare is meant to be harder than Normal, Hell harder than Nightmare, and Inferno harder than Hell.

Plus... with Monster Power, players can choose how they want their experience to be. If a player doesn't want to be "overloaded" with monsters, they can choose no MP. If a player wants to slay hordes of demons "the way it's meant to be played", they can use MP.

MP isn't even exposed to new players, whereas experienced players will likely want MP.

I see no logical reason why this isn't an option for, any difficulty really. I feel this concept wasn't really thought out in great detail... Or, maybe it was thought out. Maybe such a feature will come with an expansion pack. What better way to encourage players to buy an expansion pack by toting "more challenges"...
The scaling of difficulties from normal => nightmare = I felt no differences. This is because resist and armor makes no sense at this 2 levels.

But from nightmare to hell = yes a lot of differences. You need 200-300 all resist to stay alive and not die.
Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher

You mean exactly like it is on Inferno? It should've been like that from the start. New players, for whom you don't want to add extra difficulty and problems, wouldn't be using the Monster Power system in the first place.
Then make a monster power 0 for increased monster amount like inferno but the same hp and damage from monsters, so if you want to enjoy it on normal, nm, hell, you have to enable monster power first, set 0 mp, if you are newbie or the dont set it.
The game should show as a tutorial note : "you can set monster powers if you want for increased monster amount..."

other:
Can you tell me please where to write my suggestion about the game? I cant find the official thread, dont want to spam with new topic.
Piffle I am so not used to seeing you here in the general forums. I prefer you in the monk forum where you belong ;)
05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
or simply making higher density a checkbox option.


I mean it's unreal to my brain at least, that you didn't implement this instead of what we have now of only allowing mob density to increase on Inferno mp1+.

You guys ALWAYS seem to get close to the mark and miss it every time....just outstanding.
Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


Thumbs up on that one.
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


The checkbox idea would be cool.

Personally, I would love having increased density at that level.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


Vaeflare, I definitely think higher monster density should be an option. That or the graphics needs to be better optimized for high stress activity. ive seen hardcore players die because of graphical lag and a friend of mine can't enjoy MP as well as she used to. All the sudden for some people without high end rigs they're forced to play with no MP.
Nightmare and hell mode in this game are worthless, with the exception of being the places you need to farm XPs to get to Inferno. Nightmare in D2 was equally as worthless and really only provided a small stepping stone (farming Bosses) to gear up for early hell mode.

It worked in Diablo 1 because it had never been done that way before and each mode was significantly harder then the previous (unless of course you duped crap).
If I'm either:

A) Never played Diablo before and D3 is my first game
B) A fan of the series having played both D1 and D2

When I enter the game (no matter which group i'm from), the first thing I'll notice is the lack of monsters to slay and a ton of needless running around. Is my interest going to be kept till inferno because of this? Maybe, maybe not.

The monster density problem has been mentioned and mulled over mere days after release. This would tell me, the monster density is a problem from Normal to Hell as well, and thus should be changed.

If the dev team's general consensus, feels that players experience will be ruined because of too many monsters making the game harder through these levels; then that should be a giant red flag as to how they view the D3 experience as a whole...

Game can't be made too complex or hard, so this is why we have a linear story, no skill trees, no stat points, and the game completely reliant on gear. Can't make things too difficult for players by giving them options.. it may be detrimental to their experience...

It seems to me, they should have done a little more research on what the diablo target market actually was..
05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.
Great question!

The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience. Players who are just entering Sanctuary for the very first time have different needs and less skills and tools at their disposal, and they require the opportunity to get their feet wet before being assaulted with the additional challenges that higher monster density offers. At the same time, we also agree that this isn’t ideal for players who have already gone through the game and are looking to start up new characters and are ready to take on additional challenges and faster pacing from the get-go.

Along these lines, we’ve considered ideas such as enabling the higher density for MP1 and higher, or simply making higher density a checkbox option. We’re currently working on some other concrete ideas, but we don’t have anything to share just yet, but this is definitely an aspect of Diablo III that we’d like to improve in the long-term.


I love the density with Inferno and Mp levels. Possibly one of the best changes that have occurred in Diablo III thus far. I also feel that the density should also be put into the other difficulties. For example, have it slightly increased for Nightmare and than even more so for Hell. Since I do to a degree understand the need for Normal perhaps not having as many (we have to keep in mind that we do not have all of our skills so potentially will be at a very big disadvantage early on). But I do think that monster density needs to be adjusted.

I leveled up a new character to 60 and the areas feel incredibly empty compared to Inferno Mp density. One can even notice the severity of the difference just by running Mp0 and Mp1 inferno. I also believe that the Exp for the monsters perhaps will have to be adjusted as well. If there are three times the monsters, that would mean three times the experience and potentially three times the speed. And perhaps some would love to level up that much quicker but I think the leveling speed as of right now is pretty good.
05/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Piffle
So much time spent running through dead zones.


Exploration is a key factor to Diablo, turning every stone, venturing down every corridor.

This is a tuition phase from normal through to Hell.

By the time Hell turns up on your door step you should have a better idea of what you are going to need if you are a true beginner.

For the veteran starting out new, multiplayer with some high end players is probably your best advice.
Chances are they will dump out the loot they pick up in town for you to better your gear. Sell, Sell, Sell .
Hint: And the masses of 4 players will level you a lot faster. But a veteran would know this, yeah?
05/14/2013 05:17 PMPosted by Vaeflare
The reason we didn’t apply monster density changes to Normal, Nightmare, and Hell difficulties is because we felt this would be detrimental to the new player experience.


You already solved this.

(Hint: MP0)

You wanna "double" the solution?
05/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Piffle
Leveling up a new character is one of the most boring parts of this game. So much time spent running through dead zones. Why did they only apply this change to Inferno? I was planning on leveling up some of my other champs after 1.08, but now I don't know.


Eh. It might be annoying to hit 60 at the end of Nightmare, simply because you had to click on so many monsters....
Glad to hear it, Vaeflare. Having it as an option would be wonderful!
05/14/2013 06:12 PMPosted by Deadlysynz
It seems to me, they should have done a little more research on what the diablo target market actually was..
This was actually discussed during the beta in detail with many Moderators and Devs popping in. The short version is that the old D2 vets weren't the target Market for D3, it was more geared taword casual and newbie gamers( a bigger market share). Inferno mode was thrown in originally to be insanely impossible to beat to satisfy the veteran gamers they new would show up. They didn't think that most people could beat it, let alone want to play it. They probably thought most people would be content with hell mode. Remember the "You will die" videos n such... Of course that's before they did a 180 and changed everything a few months after release.
You know, some of these areas would be ridiculously difficult with only your starting skills. While I like the IDEA of increased density in N / NM / Hell, I'm not sure it would be a good idea in practice.

Similarly, I used to champion the addition of NV stacks in N / NM / Hell MP1+, but I no longer do. Why? Because you earn so many new skills you would be changing all the time, thus removing your NV stacks.

I'm happy that Blizz is considering adjusting the earlier difficulties, but I understand why it isn't something they are jumping at doing right now.

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