Someone has to say it to the Blues !

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You doing a bad job. You ignoring important issues while posting on threads that don't help this game to become better. I don't think dev spend much time in the forum. So its your job to tell the dev what doesn't work and need to be fixed. So far I see many threads about suggestions and you blues don't care enough to say a word.

I wish we had better community managers !


They don't care what you or me or anyone else here thinks...they either are taught to ignore certain threads, or just don't have any type of constructive reply that doesn't validate what the players are talking about...

Take the GaH, inflation and migration of GG items over to RMAH & 3rd party sites...why is it that you don't see a CM reply to a constructive thread topic of that nature...where people are discussing raising the GaH to stabilize and return some of the GG items over to GaH...b/c it's in blizzards best interest that those GG items stay away from the GaH and remain in the RMAH.
This is it in a nutshell. The CMs have said time and time again, that they read everything, even if they don't respond. And the reason they don't respond often is because then it skews the natural ebb and flow of the forums. Not only in potentially derailing a thread, but also affecting which threads receive posts.

Many people pile into a thread only because a CM posted in it--and a topic that would normally receive only a handful of replies all of a suddenly becomes a monster mega-thread, quickly hitting its max limit. And you can tell that it's only because of the blue text because when the Part 2 thread appears, it once again gets only a handful of posts.

Sometimes the CMs will post in a thread on purpose to garner attention, like a legendary affix suggestion thread. But most of the time, they want to know how strongly the community feels about the topic being discussed, and the only way they can do that is to stay out of the way.


What you're saying sounds reasonable.. but I'll flip it over on its other side:

*They're not community observers, they're community managers. Why shouldn't they draw more attention to actually interesting or important threads? Why must they post in sappy/artsy/cutesy threads or only threads with certain keywords? Instead, shouldn't they pop in a random idea thread and say "Hey, great idea, don't get your hopes up, but we will take this into consideration." or when there is an important thread about a bug or graphical error, why can't they actually respond to say "we've read this.. don't worry, we'll deal with it as soon as possible.. thanks for bringing this to our attention folks!".. Don't tell me that they don't have the time to do this. Yet, they only do this if the title relates to Legendary* or something else trending at the time.

*Again, why can't CM use their judgement to decide if driving traffic towards a certain thread is actually good for the game or not? Once again, community managers, not passive onlookers.

*I agreed with the beginning of your last paragraph but then I disagreed with your conclusion in the last sentence...why should they stay out of the way? If that's the case then why do they post at all? If they're going to make posts in popular or artsy/cutesy threads, then they should do so in more important gameplay/bug/exploit threads or interesting idea threads. Not that they never do, but they should do it more...or less.. one or the other. Why can't they commit to a role.. either observer or actual community manager?

~Philoi.

Allow me to reply in his stead:

Like you said, they are COMMUNITY managers, ergo they must try to bring the community together by discussing interesting (if not happy) subject matter.

I'm not suggesting that what you're saying is wrong, per say, but then again I know that they've already replied a hundred times already stating just that; that they're working on things.

- Dye colours for Legendaries.
- Monster density.
- Event placement.
- Skill balance.
- Hardcore and Latency.
- Stuttering upon loading.
- Itemization.
- Crafting.
- AH & RMAH.
the list goes on.

Long story short, they're already doing what you want them to do; they just can't do it ALL the time, the same subjects, over and over.

At this point, I think they want to try and let the community walk on its own two legs (letting the people inform the others, etc); only steering them once in a while.


Not in the slightest. CMs and devs have both commented on all the issues this agme has repeatedly over and over and over. It isn't their fault you people refuse to listen.


You must be new around here. As someone who has been playing Blizzard games for a LONG time, I can honestly say their customer service is worse now than it has ever been. And I'm using customer service as a blanket statement to basically cover everything from them releasing this game in basically alpha phase to absolute terrible RMAH implementation, right down to and including the way they've managed community feedback.
The Community Manager situation here is abysmal for many reasons. The CM function is only a small part of the CM's actual responsibilities, according to an old post by Bashiok (remember him?) They have other, different jobs at Blizzard and cannot be full-time in the CM role. This causes them to disappear for days and sometimes even weeks at a time due to other demands. I think it is also one of the main reasons that they avoid real issues because they know it will cause a big bubble in activity, requiring input from the developers and then additional moderation once the howler monkeys descend.

It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy though - the CMs avoid the forums here because they can be such a cesspool, but forums can be a cesspool because the CMs avoid the forums. The part they miss is that misinformation thrives in a vacuum. And that vacuum is the CM's silence on topics that matter.

It's the CM paradox: they avoid saying anything specific because they are deathly afraid of being inaccurate. The excuse is that customers will be angry if they have to change what they said. Oddly though, they are oblivious to the very vocal anger on the forums regarding the CM's evasion, absence, and silence.

The solution is to err on the side of transparency. And if things they have previously stated change, they change. Explain why. Rational people will understand even if they don't agree. And for those who post stuff like "OMFG teh Blizzardz tell LIEz!!!1!" then a nice little vacation from the forums will allow them to ponder the constantly changing nature of life. They won't be missed.

It will never happen though.
This is it in a nutshell. The CMs have said time and time again, that they read everything, even if they don't respond. And the reason they don't respond often is because then it skews the natural ebb and flow of the forums. Not only in potentially derailing a thread, but also affecting which threads receive posts.

Many people pile into a thread only because a CM posted in it--and a topic that would normally receive only a handful of replies all of a suddenly becomes a monster mega-thread, quickly hitting its max limit. And you can tell that it's only because of the blue text because when the Part 2 thread appears, it once again gets only a handful of posts.

Sometimes the CMs will post in a thread on purpose to garner attention, like a legendary affix suggestion thread. But most of the time, they want to know how strongly the community feels about the topic being discussed, and the only way they can do that is to stay out of the way.


What you're saying sounds reasonable.. but I'll flip it over on its other side:

*They're not community observers, they're community managers. Why shouldn't they draw more attention to actually interesting or important threads? Why must they post in sappy/artsy/cutesy threads or only threads with certain keywords? Instead, shouldn't they pop in a random idea thread and say "Hey, great idea, don't get your hopes up, but we will take this into consideration." or when there is an important thread about a bug or graphical error, why can't they actually respond to say "we've read this.. don't worry, we'll deal with it as soon as possible.. thanks for bringing this to our attention folks!".. Don't tell me that they don't have the time to do this. Yet, they only do this if the title relates to Legendary* or something else trending at the time.

*Again, why can't CM use their judgement to decide if driving traffic towards a certain thread is actually good for the game or not? Once again, community managers, not passive onlookers.

*I agreed with the beginning of your last paragraph but then I disagreed with your conclusion in the last sentence...why should they stay out of the way? If that's the case then why do they post at all? If they're going to make posts in popular or artsy/cutesy threads, then they should do so in more important gameplay/bug/exploit threads or interesting idea threads. Not that they never do, but they should do it more...or less.. one or the other. Why can't they commit to a role.. either observer or actual community manager?

~Philoi.


If the CMs were to take a more active role in promoting threads, then the forums would become Blizz-driven, not community-driven.

And I think the reason why they post at all is because it has a calming affect on the forums. Seriously. I saw this right after the game had launched. For several weeks there wasn't any moderation at all and it was anarchy and chaos, then Lylirra and Vaeflare started posting and the forums settled. Well, settled somewhat. That continued when Grimku joined the CM team.

The CMs' posts lets the community know that they're here and haven't abandoned us. And they do so in what some consider frivolous threads so as not to, again, skew what is important. I can make a topic demanding melee witch doctors and, other than a few troll posts, it'd probably sink to the bottom of the forums, never to be seen again. Rightfully so.

But let a CM post in it, and it becomes one of the popular topics on the forum page.

The CMs want to see what we think is vital and important to the game. Not impose their thought processes on us.
06/03/2013 09:21 PMPosted by DragonLight
That's one issue. What about the issue that it takes sometimes 10- 20 even 30min to people to join my game. By that time most of them are leaving and I have like 5 -6 people join and quit. which make me restart the game and go solo . I made a clear thread about it . Never got any reply . I guess everyone here like to flame. So even when I post something its get ignored. then I see another person posting same thing and no reply. I mean if they see that so many players making threads about same issue, at least be nice to look at it.
We appreciate your passion, and while we spend quite a lot of our day reading over these forums and various fan sites, we can't reply to every post or thread. It's simply not practical, nor is it the best use of our time.

In many cases, we also don't have any new information to share. That isn't because we aren't aware of player feedback or don't care, it's simply because game changes and implementation take time, often many months from start to finish. There is also quite a lot that goes into determining what features or changes may or may not go into the game and sometimes these changes are iterated on behind the scenes for quite awhile before we determine if they meet our standards enough to make the cut and be released upon the lands of Sanctuary. So when we have new information to share on a particular topic, we'll do just that.

In terms of matchmaking in Public Games, as I mentioned in this thread we are indeed committed to improving it further.

06/03/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Caz
Dude, they have people on here !@#$%ing at them all day. I wouldn't reply to you people either.

You wouldn't be a CM very long doing that. Why? Because it's their job to communicate to and with us. They are our liaisons with the developers. The issue is, they aren't bringing back information from the devs, only taking ours to them. Sure, we get bloated blog posts that are full of "it's something we've talked about" or "we'd like to do this" or "it's on the table", but rarely do we get any actual information of what IS happening. The community TALKS about a lot of stuff, too. Talking is easy and non-committal. The community wants to know what Blizzard is doing about issues. We're not asking for step by step measures or even technical details. We want to know something is being done other than "talking" and "thinking" and "tabling".
Perhaps it's a figure of speech that we're dancing around here then. When either the developers or the CMs say that we are "talking" about various changes, that isn't just lip service. In most cases that means that developers have already gotten together to discuss the topic as part of the development process. It also likely means they've started running numbers or trying out different changes on their internal tools, or tasked team members to assist them with the necessary steps in order to try and bring their ideas to fruition for additional evaluation and further testing.

The reality is, game development is an active and ever-evolving process that sometimes (even often) means ideas get sent back to the drawing board to be improved further. Being that as it is, we prefer to talk about the specifics surrounding topics when we feel like we have solid answers to offer you.
06/03/2013 08:56 PMPosted by DragonLight
Can you at least give examples of the threads you think are being ignored, and extraneous posts?


The trade chat scammers. Public game matchmaking its just two examples. Its something that need to be addressed.

Trade chat scams is from day 1 .

Matchmaking is something is new yet blizzard don't say anything about it.

lol we had the trade chat scamming in D2, an Blizzard gave us an alternative the ah. As for public matchmaking I don't use it so I can't comment. It is new enough that I doubt many have made any reasonable alternatives.
most of the stuff people post about improving the game is just that drivel. Do you actually read any of this stuff.
06/04/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Sÿlak
We appreciate your passion, and while we spend quite a lot of our day reading over these forums
Yet off topic posts still live strong along with non-stop spam, harassment, trolling, and flaming on the forums. :)

Cheers!


You do know the difference between a community manager and a forum moderator, yes?

You also know that they read more than the general forums?
06/04/2013 01:00 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Perhaps it's a figure of speech that we're dancing around here then. When either the developers or the CMs say that we are "talking" about various changes, that isn't just lip service. In most cases that means that developers have already gotten together to discuss the topic as part of the development process. It also likely means they've started running numbers or trying out different changes on their internal tools, or tasked team members to assist them with the necessary steps in order to try and bring their ideas to fruition for additional evaluation and further testing.


Perhaps the CM team could put together a long-form piece that outlines (with examples) what this "talking around the office" really is like then. Tell the story of how a real, in-game feature went from an idea to an implemented feature.

Describe the steps that have to happen in-between, whether they are technical, budgetary, artwork, writing, translation, testing, rework, - all of it. By documenting some real-life examples you can educate your customer base on how it happens. Sometimes it's best to let the customer know exactly how the sausage is made.

By opening a window to the process you could mitigate so much of the "what can they doing?" or "how hard can it be?" type of posts that bubble up constantly. Show us how hard it can be. Show us how some ideas ultimately end up rejected due to this rigor and process. Show us some successes too.

Go beyond the "it's really hard and stuff" explanations or out of context mentions of process steps and show what's behind the curtain. There's no secret formula or trade secrets here, just good old fashioned development management.
It would be great to see them internally at least look at their past success, as well as failure, and see what's what with the Diablo series. What things made Diablo 1 great, what type of dungeon sucked in Diablo 2. We'll never hear if they are doing this, have done this, or do it in the future, but hope they at some point have/will do something like this.

Many posts, blogs and articles states that they have done so in the past. You guys just keep ignoring.

Let me point out a few:
- Diablo 1 had random quests (single player), D3 has random events.
- Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were plagued by potion spamming, D3 fixed that.
- People were complaining that Diablo 1's random dungeon generator was too random (causing pathing issues), Diablo 2 had less randomization and more unique locations and people didn't complain. Diablo 3 kept a similar system with larger, more detailed, pieces.
- Diablo 2's overworld (Diablo 1 didn't have any) were squared zones. Diablo 3 fixed that (although they could use more "holes" in the middle to fill with random content).
- Diablo 2 had stupid one-man-wide tunnels that blocked players. Diablo 3 widened the hallways.

... I could go on.
Im personally getting real tired of this ongoing issue with gold spamming friend invites...At least 2-3 everyday.
Why bother answering these attention seeking !@#$%s, they post stuff just to get a blue response and seem important, then complain all day no one is listening to them. Then when you do respond they jump on you like rabid dogs eager to get a bite in.

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